Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Pre-release)

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Great characters? That's debatable. I bring your attention to exhibit #1, Jar Jar Binks. Exhibit #2, the Ewoks.

How about character progression?

Padme Amidala.

Episode One: Strong, fiercely dedicated queen who managed to unseat the chancellor of the known galaxy, take a small security team and two Jedi back to her home planet, gain the alliance of an arrogant race that hated her, and successfully defeat an entire planet invading army.

So far so good in my book.

Episode Two: Now a Senator who's against creating an army(?) when there are opposing forces gathering in the universe. Even though she falls for a complete jerk, she does manage to get things rolling by going on a rescue mission to save Obi-Wan.

Downgrade, but still a bit of the same character.

Episode Three: Reduced to a fretting, love starved character who cannot stop talking about "Ani" this and "Ani" that. Is somehow shocked in utter disbelief when Anakin, a character who killed men, women and children in the previous movie, has again killed men, women and children. After giving birth to two babies, she decides that it's better to die than live a life without her jerk of a husband.

If anyone has ever wondered why I'm a tad over sensitive about the lackluster portrayol of women in today's, here's where it started.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

While she may do a lousy "British" accent, Natalie Portman is a talented actress. Her problem was bad writing and direction. Her portrayal of Padme was, I think, as good as she could make it, given what she had to work with.

And for all of that, while Padme's role may seem impressive in the early films in broad strokes, it's still a pretty weak presentation of what sounds good on paper. Again, due largely to bad writing and direction, I'd say.


For that matter, Hayden Christensen is actually pretty good. If you watch him in, say, Broken Glass, he does a solid job of portraying yet another whiny guy, but at least in this case he's a BELIEVABLE whiny guy.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

While she may do a lousy "British" accent, Natalie Portman is a talented actress. Her problem was bad writing and direction. Her portrayal of Padme was, I think, as good as she could make it, given what she had to work with.

And for all of that, while Padme's role may seem impressive in the early films in broad strokes, it's still a pretty weak presentation of what sounds good on paper. Again, due largely to bad writing and direction, I'd say.


For that matter, Hayden Christensen is actually pretty good. If you watch him in, say, Broken Glass, he does a solid job of portraying yet another whiny guy, but at least in this case he's a BELIEVABLE whiny guy.

All the PT actors are talented people, just look at each of their bodies of work as evidence. The problem was that GL wanted the dialogue to be delivered the way it was for whatever god-forsaken reason. I like the prequels, but that is definitely one of the weak points...knowing that it could have been performed much better w/o GL telling them to keep it underwhelming (probably not the word he used, but whatever)
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Great ideas? Most definitely.

Great characters? That's debatable. I bring your attention to exhibit #1, Jar Jar Binks. Exhibit #2, the Ewoks.

Okay... Touche' on Exhibit 1, but don't diss the Ewoks! I'm one of the few who favored ROTJ. Yes I was 5 when it came out in theaters, but my feelings never changed on the film growing up. My only feelings that have changed in recent days is Vader's included "NOOOOO!" before The Emperor is thrown down the pit.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I'm gonna say it. I love ROTJ and the ewoks. What Ewoks do is provide a very literal representation of what part of Star Wars is about. That it isn't the power that you possess, but the will and the belief to overcome your inabilities that will bring you success. Jar Jar, too serves a very similar purpose, but we can all agree that the character of Jar Jar was terribly executed, while the Ewoks did exactly what they were supposed to. ROTJ: Not directed by GL, just his concepts. TPM: GL directing his own concepts. Which just goes to show just how well another director interpreting George's concepts works. ROTJ ewoks: Renowned as classic characters in cimema. TPM jar jar: Universally hated character.
 
I'm gonna say it. I love ROTJ and the ewoks. What Ewoks do is provide a very literal representation of what part of Star Wars is about. That it isn't the power that you possess, but the will and the belief to overcome your inabilities that will bring you success. Jar Jar, too serves a very similar purpose, but we can all agree that the character of Jar Jar was terribly executed, while the Ewoks did exactly what they were supposed to. ROTJ: Not directed by GL, just his concepts. TPM: GL directing his own concepts. Which just goes to show just how well another director interpreting George's concepts works. ROTJ ewoks: Renowned as classic characters in cimema. TPM jar jar: Universally hated character.

Ah, thank you! I was beginning to think I was the only person who found the Ewoks adorable. As for how few of them died, I chalked it up to the classic technique of implied violence. It also helped that Wicket behaves like a cat.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I was young enough (6) when ROTJ came out that I really like the Ewoks. People forget that they are the most bloodthirsty characters in the SW movies. They tried to freakin' eat the main cast people! Stormtroopers never came that close to killing them and they were just going to shoot them!
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Yeah, I was 5 when ROTJ came out, and I loved the ewoks....when I was 5.

By the time I was 12, I recognized what a colossal waste they were, and how it should have been wookiees (which, by that point, everyone knew was Lucas' original idea).

I don't care how bloodthirsty the ewoks were. The empire got beaten by a bunch of killer teddy bears. The space battle still holds up, but I have a very hard time watching the cutesy-ootsey ewoks.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Yeah, I was 5 when ROTJ came out, and I loved the ewoks....when I was 5.

By the time I was 12, I recognized what a colossal waste they were, and how it should have been wookiees (which, by that point, everyone knew was Lucas' original idea).

I don't care how bloodthirsty the ewoks were. The empire got beaten by a bunch of killer teddy bears. The space battle still holds up, but I have a very hard time watching the cutesy-ootsey ewoks.

i think it would have worked better if there were more ewoks actually... mass numbers of them to overwhelm the regiment. And make them a tad more aggressive looking... perhaps mini wookies. I was 16 for RofJ and actually didn't mind the ewoks too much but once the ground battle started it just didn't work. the use of logs to smash the walkers was good but the bow and arrows and rock throwing against armored troopers was unrealistic. those stormtroopers were too fragile! :lol

I liked more the look of Logray and Teebo and less Wicket. With the skull armor these two looked more like warriors that you might fear would bite you! :D
Logray.jpg

Teebo_rotj.jpg
 
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Re: Star Wars Episode VII

i think it would have worked better if there were more ewoks actually... mass numbers of them to overwhelm the regiment. And make them a tad more aggressive looking... perhaps mini wookies. I was 16 for RofJ and actually didn't mind the ewoks too much but once the ground battle started it just didn't work. the use of logs to smash the walkers was good but the bow and arrows and rock throwing against armored troopers was unrealistic. those stormtroopers were too fragile! :lol

So, basically, ewoks who aren't ewoks? Like....wookiees maybe?

Wookiees would've worked fine. We see that in ROTS, actually. Yes, they're technologically advanced, but:

- You could have had them not having access to as much technology due to enslavement by the Empire.

- You could have them not use so much technology because they view it as dishonorable to kill from afar rather than up close and personal.


Although personally I think the notion of "We need these to be primitive savages" is goofy anyway. Lucas based some of that (allegedly) on Vietnam, and I'd bet to another extent on the more mythological depictions of the Battle of Little Big Horn. However, in neither case was the less technologically advanced force DEVOID of technology. The Viet Cong were supplied with Soviet (or Chinese) weaponry, although they didn't have a lot of heavy artillery. They did use plenty of booby traps, though. and while they were outnumbered and outgunned, they knew the terrain a LOT better and were more suited towards it. With the Battle of Little Big Horn, it's now been proven by archaeological evidence that the Native Americans weren't JUST using bows and arrows and tomahawks, but were in fact armed with Henry repeating rifles, whereas Custer's troops -- who were grossly outnumbered, by the way -- were using breech-loading single-shot carbines. In that case, the Native Americans were actually MORE technologically advanced, just not universally so.

Granted, the Little Big Horn information didn't surface at the time of ROTJ, but the Native Americans were still formidable fighters even if you assume they only had bows and arrows. Plus, the cavalry weren't armored. Plus the Native Americans weren't freaking teddy bears!
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

well, I think it falls in line w ith "judge me by my size do you?" ewoks appeared to be of no threat to the empire... wheras 9 foot muscular wookies would have been. So I think having a primitive tribe of small harmless looking animals works... but you can't judge them by looks only... the empire underestimated them as allies for the rebels.
I could have done without them altogether... but being they were a part of the story I still think they should have made them more cunning. dropping rocks and rolling logs just was too funny for a final war.


So, basically, ewoks who aren't ewoks? Like....wookiees maybe?

Wookiees would've worked fine. We see that in ROTS, actually. Yes, they're technologically advanced, but:

- You could have had them not having access to as much technology due to enslavement by the Empire.

- You could have them not use so much technology because they view it as dishonorable to kill from afar rather than up close and personal.


Although personally I think the notion of "We need these to be primitive savages" is goofy anyway. Lucas based some of that (allegedly) on Vietnam, and I'd bet to another extent on the more mythological depictions of the Battle of Little Big Horn. However, in neither case was the less technologically advanced force DEVOID of technology. The Viet Cong were supplied with Soviet (or Chinese) weaponry, although they didn't have a lot of heavy artillery. They did use plenty of booby traps, though. and while they were outnumbered and outgunned, they knew the terrain a LOT better and were more suited towards it. With the Battle of Little Big Horn, it's now been proven by archaeological evidence that the Native Americans weren't JUST using bows and arrows and tomahawks, but were in fact armed with Henry repeating rifles, whereas Custer's troops -- who were grossly outnumbered, by the way -- were using breech-loading single-shot carbines. In that case, the Native Americans were actually MORE technologically advanced, just not universally so.

Granted, the Little Big Horn information didn't surface at the time of ROTJ, but the Native Americans were still formidable fighters even if you assume they only had bows and arrows. Plus, the cavalry weren't armored. Plus the Native Americans weren't freaking teddy bears!
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Yeah, see, my issue is that the Empire and the imperial stormtroopers are supposed to be serious badasses. They conquered a galaxy, afterall, right? It's not JUST that the Ewoks aren't physically imposing. It's totally improbable that a bunch of pint sized teddy bears with bows and arrows could beat the empire. Either the Empire's troops are a bunch of ninnies, or the ewoks are actually insanely powerful. But even the sequences with them smacking stormtroopers with rocks makes the troopers look more like they're really annoyed than actually threatened and fearing for their lives. The sequence is shot with this air of "Ow! Hey, quit it, you little farts!!" rather than "FORM UP! THEY'RE ALMOST ON TOP OF US!!!"

The ewoks aren't SHOWN as a threat. It's possible they could've been, but they aren't depicted that way, and that's entirely because of George's weird sense of whimsy, coupled with his desire to sell toys.

And don't get me wrong. When I was 6, I ate that stuff up. I had the ewok village playset. I had several ewok figures. I had the glider toy. I thought all of this stuff was cool. I had ewok storybooks, I watched the ewoks cartoon, and I was sad that I missed the Ewok adventure movies on TV.


And then I grew up, and none of that appealed to me anymore. Meanwhile, the original Star Wars and ESB still do. And just as much as they did when I was a kid, only now I can appreciate different things about them, without thinking "Ugh. This is so kiddie-friendly..."

Wookiees and slavery and whatnot would've been darker to deal with, but it still could've been handled with a lighter touch. I just think it would've been a lot more balanced of a film if they'd gone that route.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

The sequence is shot with this air of "Ow! Hey, quit it, you little farts!!" rather than "FORM UP! THEY'RE ALMOST ON TOP OF US!!!"

Yeah, at first, but then they seemed more threatening with their successes with trip ropes, lassos and log traps. But yeah, Wookiees would've been better.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Yeah, see, my issue is that the Empire and the imperial stormtroopers are supposed to be serious badasses. They conquered a galaxy, afterall, right? It's not JUST that the Ewoks aren't physically imposing. It's totally improbable that a bunch of pint sized teddy bears with bows and arrows could beat the empire.

well, technically the ewoks didn't beat the empire. they helped distract and subdue a handful of garrison troops and smashed a couple of walkers. It was Han that blew up the bunker and the rebel alliance that blew up the death star beating the empire! the ewoks were an annoyance that helped Han and his pitiful band get the job done... but almost made a mess of it too. so yes, the inclusion of the ewoks were just extraneous kid friendly additions and a marketing gimmick.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

The Ewoks didn't win the war on Endor... Han Solo destroying the bunker did. Basically, like the Gungans in ep1, the Ewoks were basically there to distract the enemy from the main attack force.

EDIT: LOL... two minds think alike.

EDIT2: and totally agree. After learning that they were originally supposed to be Wookies, that just felt like a lost opportunity. I never bought the reasoning to switch was because of Chewie being technologically savvy - it's just a lame excuse - 'cause Chewie was away from his people, so had to adapt + he didn't seem too technologically savvy to me. Sure, he could fix things... but always seemed to have to be told exactly what to fix and how.
 
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