Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Pre-release)

[Timmythekid]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Clearly the DECADES of fans screaming that Lucas should not be within 200 feet of a directors chair didn't impact it either.:lol

I must have missed the part between '83 and '99 where we had this. At all. Even a little. :rolleyes

Personally, i think the whole saga was planned out in at least very basic detail before ANH, Meaning, darth vader = anakin skywalker, luke and leia = brother and sister, so on and so forth. IDK y people think otherwise besides the fact that it's their personal preference that the opposite be true, so they say he made it all up as he went along.

They might just also be basing it on there being no mention of Vader/father in anything (drafts, shooting scripts, outlines, NOTHING) until after '77. Or it could be that in the official continuation of the story, when it looked like they might need a small-budget script to shoot and SotME was written to fill that role, it doesn't come up either. They might further be basing it on GAry Kurtz's recollection that the sister was someone other than Leia, until Lucas realized he was tired and burned out on SW and wanted to just wrap the whole thing up quickly. There's this weird need on Lucas' part it seems, to make it appear that the whole thing sprang out of his head fully formed -sort of Saturn-esque. Generally art doesn't work like that, and it's actually a more interesting story to say "well, I thought this was where I was going, but then realized that there was better dram if I went in this direction instead".

 

[Solo4114]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

The more I learned about and thought about the films, the less I believe Lucas always from day 1 planned things to go exactly as they did. I've noticed his desire to make it seem that way, though.

I think it's more likely that, "from a certain point of view," he had things planned. As in, I knew I wanted there to be A sister. and I knew that Luke would confront Vader for killing his father and be wounded both physically and psychologically from the encounter, probably learning some hidden truth in the process. I didn't know Luke would be Vader's son until I really started thinking in detail how I wanted things to proceed. And Leia as the sister just hit me as a neat idea because of the alliteration. In retrospect, I probably could've handled the romantic tension between the two of them better in the earlier movies...

I mean, seriously, Leia as the sister was so clearly NOT intended from day 1. Listen to the Star Wars radio drama, which was largely based on the scripts (including Luke witnessing the space battle, meeting with Cammie and Fixer at Tosche Station, and a bit at the end with Leia thanking Luke on behalf of herself and the Rebellion, and Luke saying "What I did, I did for both..."). Or hell, look at the films themselves with her planting a big ol' kiss on his face in ESB.

Yet "somehow she always knew" he was her brother. Right. Sure. Why not?

Thing is, there's no shame in the "I'm making it up as I go" admission. If anything, I'd say it's a testament to the entertaining quality of the films that we still love these movies in spite of these kinds of flubs and weirdness.

 

[Master Boda]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

You guys know that GL used a lot of motifs from Mythology when he was writing SW right?I agree that he did not have had all of it planned but a good part of the story he did.He'll even Joseph Campbell said GL was one of his best students,if you guys know myths the whole brother/sister father/son type of things would make sense to you.:facepalm

 

[Solo4114]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Yes, we're well aware of that. but look at the films. There's plenty there to suggest that either he executed his day-1 plan poorly, or that he didn't have the same plan on day-1 as he had on day-640.

 

[Too Much Garlic]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I'm just saying my opinion. The EU is as good as the original movies.

And you are free to do so. I just don't agree with your assessment that if the EU stopped, then Star Wars would die. The books really do not hold that kind of power.

 

[Bryancd]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Yes, we're well aware of that. but look at the films. There's plenty there to suggest that either he executed his day-1 plan poorly, or that he didn't have the same plan on day-1 as he had on day-640.

In interviews over the years I just get the impression he has zero compulsion to stick to anything he said previously. It's all fluid and dynamic to him whereas we as fans want a clear picture. I think he originally envisioned a huge multi story arc. Then made one standalone movie. That worked so he was able to make another two building off of that and decided it would be the Anakin story but I think in his mind it was just as much about Luke, Han, Leia, and the droids. It was only in retrospect and preparing for the prequels he made it really Anakin's story and then he went back and made up those three. His original writings and story treatment contain so many elements of the prequels it was easy to build off that. The only time I have ever really believed him to be intractable was when he said his story telling ends woth Anakin's redemption. I think he truly believed that. Then CLONE WARS brings him back in creatively, he decides to retire and move on and to sell his company and ensure it's continuation, he goes back to those original notes and does some doodles for these new films.

 

[batguy]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

GL doesn't like to defend criticism of his work. "I always had it written this way" is an easy way to shut people up. It lends false legitimacy to stuff that wouldn't have it otherwise, like changes being made on-the-fly. I think that probably has more to do with GL insisting things were planned out than anything else.

GL planned out a whole lot more than people typically did for sequels in the 1970s. It was not all that detailed of a plan by modern movie franchise standards, where people might have entire scripts years ahead of time.



If you look at the 3 prequels, it's clear GL's focus was very spotty. Certain aspects of the prequels seem very well thought-out and others not at all. I imagine that his pre-planning for all the movies was similarly spotty. Some chunks of them were probably sketched out years ahead of time, and other huge portions of them probably didn't get an ounce of thought until they needed a shooting script.

---

 

[jcoffman99]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Looks like it is highly likely that Matthew Vaughn will be directing.

Ain't It Cool News: The best in movie, TV, DVD, and comic book news.

 

[3jack]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I think GL may have had a rough idea with where he wanted to go with the whole saga but I don't for a minute think it was all planned out like he's said. There's too many inconsistencies in the OT for me. Luke and Leia's kiss,Han shooting first. Obi wan's story of Luke's father and to me most telling is Obi and Darth's showdown I don't believe for a second that Obi wouldn't refer to Darth as Annakin or atleast try to appeal to the man rather than the machine.

But at the end of the day it was GL's story to tell no matter how much was/wasn't planned.

Any back on topic so what do people want to see in episode 7 do you want Vader and Fett back?

 

[Too Much Garlic]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Looks like it is highly likely that Matthew Vaughn will be directing.

Ain't It Cool News: The best in movie, TV, DVD, and comic book news.

He certainly has a way of bringing a humanity into his movies. I wouldn't mind him directing.

 

[NAZGÛL]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I dont have a clear image of his style. But why not? Im pretty sure the big directors is out of the questions as they should be smart enough to see the risks. Lets face it, chances to get the fans happy with this is very slim. Were all making up our images of what we want, and after the release the fan hate will commence again.

It cant get much better than the last Indy, and it is trashed by the fans.

Edit:
I feel I need to clarify what I ment. I dont think the final Indy is fantastic even if I think the film did turn out true to its heritage.

My point compairing it to the new SW is that it had many of the things needed for it to work, the original writer, director, main stars. It had a story that wasnt completed. It had a loyal fan base. It had the money to make it what they wanted. Still it failed.

This new one hasnt even a story to continue on. It could work, but my guess is fan rage after the premiere. Hope Im wrong, but I think even Star Wars ANH would have bombed if released today. Its a child of its time.

 

[Jedi Dade]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Whatever the story - please lose the freaking brown on brown Jedi Robes... ugh...

Because that is the Main thing... fashion sense

Seriously though... I think that the new movies will deal with what Lucas said they'd deal with. The passing of the lightsaber on to the next generation. With that in mind We will have at least some of the original triliogy characters in there... Someone to catch the passing lightsaber.

What shape that story will take will likely not take into account anything EU... for better or worse. But I can easily see a compelling story about rediscovering all the lost secrets - and repeating the mistakes of the past for the Jedi/Sith. Everyone who knew anything died... I'm just happy it will be moving forward... I am afterall a Star Wars Junky.

Jedi Dade

 

[Vivek]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

You Decide: Does This Video Confirm Matthew Vaughn is the 'Star Wars: Episode VII' Director? | Movie News | Movies.com

 

[infymys]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Star Wars 7 sneak peek! - YouTube

 

[ghostryder]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

STAR WARS Spin-Offs Possibly Being Written by Lawrence Kasdan and Simon Kinberg | Collider

 

[niennumb1]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Make sure you change all your posters and print ads by adding a small sticker character at the end so that it now reads: "The Complete Saga?"

 

[Timmythekid]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

You guys know that GL used a lot of motifs from Mythology when he was writing SW right?I agree that he did not have had all of it planned but a good part of the story he did.He'll even Joseph Campbell said GL was one of his best students,if you guys know myths the whole brother/sister father/son type of things would make sense to you.:facepalm

I didn't realize we were all illiterate morons. Thank you for clarifying that. I'll see your :facepalm and raise you:facepalm:facepalm:facepalm:facepalm:facepalm:facepalm and a :behave.

NO ONE said it didn't make sense. What is being questioned, and based on the evidence available (go read the Secret History of Star Wars) is clearly bunk, is the assertion that Lucas had the whole thing planned from the begining. He didn't. He likes to claim that the whole thing was all there, fully formed, and bursting from his skull in the mid-'70s. The truth is much more likely that Vader =/= Father until prepping ESB. Leia =/= Sister until prepping RotJ. And, for the record, what Campbell was talking about when he called Lucas the best student he ever had, was Lucas' understanding of what the Hero's Journey looks like - from callow youth, to acceptance and fufillment of destiny.

 

[Timmythekid]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Whatever the story - please lose the freaking brown on brown Jedi Robes... ugh...

Because that is the Main thing... fashion sense

Gawk...agreed. The robes in the PT were stupid. Obi-Wan wears the robes in SW simply because he's been hiding out on Tatooine for 20 years. LOTS of BG people on Tatooine are wearing similar robes - are they all Jedi in hiding too? Why oh why did Lucas decide this was a Jedi's uniform?

 

[JD]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I think he had the series planned out, but in a much more broader fashion and he's been revising, updating and changing lots of it, if not most of it, as he goes. I don't even know if story/plot is the right word for what Lucas had as much as an idea.

General Skywalker/Starkiller, female Luke, Vader/Father, Leia/Sister were all part of the revisions.

I wonder how much of the Annonated/Secret History of Star Wars will make it's way into the ST (sequel trilogy - am I the first to use that acronym?).

 

[Too Much Garlic]

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Lets face it, chances to get the fans happy with this is very slim. Were all making up our images of what we want, and after the release the fan hate will commence again.

Actually... the difference between the PT and this new trilogy is that with the PT there were clues as to what should be there. The things Obi-Wan told Luke about The Clone Wars (you don't name a war for the heroes, you name it after the enemy or the place it took place) and about Anakin. So, we had dialogue to tell us things about what happened in the past - the past the PT should be showing, but simply isn't. That fact is then countered with Obi-Wan's "from certain point of view" comment, just making him an even bigger liar and manipulator than just a man, scarred by the friendship that he felt was betrayed and the man he once knew and the more machine he now is and acts - and having a hard time telling a hopeful youth that his father is a mass murderer and the right hand man of the emperor.

You just get quickly glossed over hints of those things - you don't really see Anakin being the great man, the great friend, the great star fighter pilot, all the things Obi-Wan remembers with pride and sadness... you don't see any of that. So naturally... that's the big letdown for me. There is no fall of a great man and the betrayal of everything he stood for, to make Obi-Wan remember him in that way.

Anyway... what I wanted to say is... unlike the PT... we really have no clue where the next few movies are going to go. No hints, no nothing telling us what should and shouldn't be there... so, sure, it can be a letdown as the PT were, sure, they may not be as good movies as the OT were... but... if they don't treat it as the brand is enough to tell the story instead of delivering a great story, then it might be good.