Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Pre-release)

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Well, when you combine those rumors, the theory that Harrison won't show up to just smile and wave, and his proximity to JJ at the table read, I bet dollars to donuts he does feature prominently in this film along with his daughter, who I think is our new series lead. And I think his demise may be in the cards as the catalyst to bring Luke back from his self imposed exile on Tatooine, where he has disappeared into obscurity to allow the Force to regain balance. Or I have no idea. :)

I hope they don't kill him. To me, that seems like the same kind of move they did in the EU books where they dropped a frickin' moon on Chewbacca. I'm just not up for that. Leave my heroes alone, dammit!

I think he will, with the catalyst being Han's dearth, but he won't rebuild the Order. I think he would teach Jedi to be lone agents of the Force, wandering the Galaxy…like Kane in Kung-fu. No more temples and such.

My sense of the Jedi in the new trilogy would be that they are strictly apolitical, and are not a faction in the Republic...until and unless they HAVE to be. I'd figure they'd be independent agents in that sense, who are working to serve the Republic in the broad terms that Obi-Wan once described, as the "guardians of peace and justice throughout the galaxy." You know, like knights. That aside, I would expect some central place of teaching to exist, or at least to exist initially simply because...who else can people learn from except Luke?

I suppose they could dodge this by saying that other once-thought-dead Jedi have come forward, including some who are dark, and that might be your source for tension in the story.

For what it's worth, I don't think having a monastic or militant order a la the Templars or the Knights of St. John or the Shaolin or Zen Buddhist sects from the sengoku era in Japan is necessarily where the Jedi went wrong. The problem was more in their ascetic and unemotional teachings, which ultimately blinded them to the dark side, and led them waaaaay out of balance. Luke represents a fresh start in that respect. We've also seen Luke use "dark side" powers like choking people as he did with the Gammoreans guarding Jabba's palace. Plus, all of his actions, as you said, were driven by his personal connections. Ultimately, I think the real struggle that a Jedi would have would be to find a balance point between being an unemotional creature where you're totally "at peace" to the point that you feel nothing, and being an uncontrolled storm of emotions.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

After years of wrestling with the awful to mediocre prequels, I've decided to approach this sequel trilogy philosophically. If they're great, awesome. If not, I can ignore them. But having fat, graying Han and Leia dashing around blasting things will ruin the crap out of this movie. I still bought Ford as Indy in KOTCS, but I don't think I can make the leap to accepting an aging Han. It's just too depressing. I'm just gonna be sitting in the theater thinking "my god, I'M getting old too" and that will probably make the whole viewing experience bleak :lol
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Yeah, I gotta say, I don't relish the idea of them playing hero again. They're secondary characters. They can move the action along, act as advisors, maybe show up for one space battle, but seriously, I don't care how in shape Ford or Fisher gets. They ain't kids anymore, so they shouldn't try to act it.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I hope they don't kill him. To me, that seems like the same kind of move they did in the EU books where they dropped a frickin' moon on Chewbacca. I'm just not up for that. Leave my heroes alone, dammit!



My sense of the Jedi in the new trilogy would be that they are strictly apolitical, and are not a faction in the Republic...until and unless they HAVE to be. I'd figure they'd be independent agents in that sense, who are working to serve the Republic in the broad terms that Obi-Wan once described, as the "guardians of peace and justice throughout the galaxy." You know, like knights.

That still doesn't exactly work because knights weren't "guardians of peace and justice" as you put it, they were the warrior class of the middle ages and Renaissance and were an elite fighting force that did what their lords told them to do. They didn't go traipsing around the countryside righting wrongs and punishing evil doers like something out of King Arthur; when they weren't training for war they spent their time drinking and eating and possibly even whoring and were more likely to abuse peasants and serfs as they were to help them. So by going by what a historical knight was and did you're suggesting that the Jedi form an elite corps within the Republic military that the rest of their military is built around? All they do is hang around Coruscant (or wherever) waiting for the Chanchellor to let them loose to go fight the enemies of the Republic, separated from the common people sort of like they did in the PT with the exception of getting involved in politics.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

That still doesn't exactly work because knights weren't "guardians of peace and justice" as you put it, they were the warrior class of the middle ages and Renaissance and were an elite fighting force that did what their lords told them to do. They didn't go traipsing around the countryside righting wrongs and punishing evil doers like something out of King Arthur; when they weren't training for war they spent their time drinking and eating and possibly even whoring and were more likely to abuse peasants and serfs as they were to help them. So by going by what a historical knight was and did you're suggesting that the Jedi form an elite corps within the Republic military that the rest of their military is built around? All they do is hang around Coruscant (or wherever) waiting for the Chanchellor to let them loose to go fight the enemies of the Republic, separated from the common people sort of like they did in the PT with the exception of getting involved in politics.

Yeah, I know what knights did historically. They're a lot closer to what you see in Game of Thrones than Excalibur. Well, Gawain notwithstanding... I'm talking more about the ideal chivalric version thereof. Or, if you want to make it more concrete, something like the militant orders of the Crusading era, who protected travelers to and within Jerusalem. Granted, they too were a political force, but they weren't necessarily an arm of the state the way the military caste in a Medieval kingdom was, in that they owed no fealty to a crown. My distinction of "like knights" was more to separate the Jedi from their more monastic version in the PT. (Note: the Clone Wars cartoon complicates this, since they act as generals for the Clone Army, and aren't exactly "righters of wrongs" or whathaveyou.)
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

All I want in this new movie is less lightsaber battles, I'm sick of people flipping around through the air and deflecting laser bolts !!!
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Yeah, I gotta say, I don't relish the idea of them playing hero again. They're secondary characters. They can move the action along, act as advisors, maybe show up for one space battle, but seriously, I don't care how in shape Ford or Fisher gets. They ain't kids anymore, so they shouldn't try to act it.

I think the best way around that is to keep Han in the Falcon for the battle scenes.. Even in old age, he could still be one of the best pilots in the galaxy and lend his hand that way.

I kind of see two outcomes for Han.. I suppose he could remain a general seeing as he proved himself a good leader in RoTJ, but I feel like he would be more likely to give up that power to stay out of those issues. I think he would be reluctant to get involved with another conflict.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I still think the whole concept of the New Jedi Order was an EU construct that made for fun stories, but was not the direction GL would have taken Luke. And I also feel confidant enough to say Luke will not be married and will not have children, if I see one more "where is Mara Jade?!" post online I will shoot myself. GL hated that character.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I still think the whole concept of the New Jedi Order was an EU construct that made for fun stories, but was not the direction GL would have taken Luke. And I also feel confidant enough to say Luke will not be married and will not have children, if I see one more "where is Mara Jade?!" post online I will shoot myself. GL hated that character.

I just figure that there'd have to be SOME kind of Jedi presence after ROTJ. It's not just Luke living like a desert hermit, because what would the point be towards him learning that stuff, then? I could see him being alone in his life romantically, no question, but I don't buy the notion that he'd have zero students, and 35 years after the fact is STILL the only living Jedi out there. So, the natural thought would be that he'd have some kind of academy or lycaeum or whatever you want to call it, where students are being trained.

I think the best way around that is to keep Han in the Falcon for the battle scenes.. Even in old age, he could still be one of the best pilots in the galaxy and lend his hand that way.

I kind of see two outcomes for Han.. I suppose he could remain a general seeing as he proved himself a good leader in RoTJ, but I feel like he would be more likely to give up that power to stay out of those issues. I think he would be reluctant to get involved with another conflict.

I could see both of those being the case. Han as a master pilot, but also Han kind of opting out of the running of the galaxy.

And he's still pissed at Chewbacca.

"She was my WIFE, you sonofabitch!!!"

;)
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

The only way anyone is ever going to be able to guess the outlines of the story more accurately is if they put up the completed cast list, not just the main ones and I think thats going to be unlikely. Given just how accurate most of the rumours were about who got various parts, it wouldn't surprise me at all to discover a few interesting roles have been quietly missed from the first key reading, which basically gave the fans the key acknowledgements they were looking for. The full cast list will be substantially larger than this. I just don't think they will be prepared in anyway to let us get anything other than even the broadest hints about the story yet, its way too early.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

It's also important to recognize that the mere mention of a member of the cast doesn't mean the final cut will include them all that much. Jimmy Smitts was cast as Bail Organa, but basically had a walk-on part in the films and was barely used. Same with Terrence Stamp. yet if all you had was the cast list, you might say "Wow! Look at these cast members! This is gonna be impressive!"
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

My sense of the Jedi in the new trilogy would be that they are strictly apolitical, and are not a faction in the Republic...until and unless they HAVE to be. I'd figure they'd be independent agents in that sense, who are working to serve the Republic in the broad terms that Obi-Wan once described, as the "guardians of peace and justice throughout the galaxy." You know, like knights. That aside, I would expect some central place of teaching to exist, or at least to exist initially simply because...who else can people learn from except Luke?

I suppose they could dodge this by saying that other once-thought-dead Jedi have come forward, including some who are dark, and that might be your source for tension in the story.

For what it's worth, I don't think having a monastic or militant order a la the Templars or the Knights of St. John or the Shaolin or Zen Buddhist sects from the sengoku era in Japan is necessarily where the Jedi went wrong. The problem was more in their ascetic and unemotional teachings, which ultimately blinded them to the dark side, and led them waaaaay out of balance. Luke represents a fresh start in that respect. We've also seen Luke use "dark side" powers like choking people as he did with the Gammoreans guarding Jabba's palace. Plus, all of his actions, as you said, were driven by his personal connections. Ultimately, I think the real struggle that a Jedi would have would be to find a balance point between being an unemotional creature where you're totally "at peace" to the point that you feel nothing, and being an uncontrolled storm of emotions.

I think that may be where the fun begins as if you think of it like you said and I did I think Luke my start the Jedi as a bunch of people who step if they're needed but stay out of the politics and stop being Spock wannabes and open their eyes a bit with a few well trained emotions.

But in some ways that may make them seeming wild cards to a new republic and add in all the things that they went through after failing with the Sith and all the death and destruction they let happen,accident or not,and the galaxy as a whole may not be so warm to them.

Gonna be fun to see where they take it.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I just figure that there'd have to be SOME kind of Jedi presence after ROTJ. It's not just Luke living like a desert hermit, because what would the point be towards him learning that stuff, then? I could see him being alone in his life romantically, no question, but I don't buy the notion that he'd have zero students, and 35 years after the fact is STILL the only living Jedi out there. So, the natural thought would be that he'd have some kind of academy or lycaeum or whatever you want to call it, where students are being trained.

I can only in so far as Luke, assuming he learns all the details of the previous Jedi Order, decides the galaxy and the health of the Force is better off without them. That people who are Force sensitive should be allowed to find their own path free of instruction, even if that leads to as many abuses of power as it does to acts of kindness. Isn't that really what "Balance of the Force" implies? It's not a numbers game, but if you have all these trained Jedi running around trying to do good, eventually they will succumb to their own sense of entitlement and position. Then along come the Sith and this starts all over again. The Mortis trilogy and the Yoda arc in CW really are "This is what the Force is 101" from GL himself and worth reviewing in the context of what it might mean for Luke.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Really? Can you name one thing Luke did in the OT that was part of the Jedi Order in the PT? Every decision he made was based on love and attachment. The Jedi Order was a flawed concept that gave rise to the imbalance in the Force and the rise of the Sith. Luke is a Jedi, but his idea of what a Jedi is and should be is diametrically opposed to what Yoda and Obi-wan tried to achieve. If the Force is an holistic part of nature, how can it be in balance when there are a few 1000 Jedi running around using i to maintain order. even under the guise of peacekeepers. Think about it.

You misunderstood (or I wasn't clear enough?). I meant that Luke should rebuild the Jedi Order, not to rebuild it to make it the same as the Prequel Jedi. Obviously there are lots of flaws. I think that's one part the EU got right where he went in a different direction. I'm just saying from what happens in the OT, Luke would have to completely turn his back and give up his obligations to not rebuild the Order. You could also argue that the Prequel Jedi were blind, but were ultimately correct in their methods. Only 20 Jedi have ever left the order in thousands of years. None have apparently turned to the Dark Side. Either that or the Jedi (through Lucas) lied about that part.

Also, as I've said countless times (and people don't read I guess), Lucas said that balance is absence of the Sith. Not equal numbers of Jedi and Sith, just no Sith period. So, in the Jedi's eyes, balance is having no Sith. So having 10,000 Jedi in the galaxy won't change that.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

You misunderstood (or I wasn't clear enough?). I meant that Luke should rebuild the Jedi Order, not to rebuild it to make it the same as the Prequel Jedi. Obviously there are lots of flaws. I think that's one part the EU got right where he went in a different direction. I'm just saying from what happens in the OT, Luke would have to completely turn his back and give up his obligations to not rebuild the Order. You could also argue that the Prequel Jedi were blind, but were ultimately correct in their methods. Only 20 Jedi have ever left the order in thousands of years. None have apparently turned to the Dark Side. Either that or the Jedi (through Lucas) lied about that part.

Also, as I've said countless times (and people don't read I guess), Lucas said that balance is absence of the Sith. Not equal numbers of Jedi and Sith, just no Sith period. So, in the Jedi's eyes, balance is having no Sith. So having 10,000 Jedi in the galaxy won't change that.

Fair enough but I think that the absence of Sith is not really balance. Ying and yang. I think anytime you create an "Order" you create a dogma and bureaucracy that leads to decay. Isn't that way more interesting a path for JJ to go down then, "Hey, check out all these cool new Jedi's!" at least in this first film? I'm not saying there can't be Jedi, just maybe these 3 films will watch the development of that. In this Ep. 7, how much more interesting to be presented with a Galeaxy far, far away where the Jedi are still all but extinct despite their apparent victory?
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

For me it will be interesting to see:
1. How much of the movie disregards or completely conflicts with the previous movies. JJ showed in Star Trek that cannon does not matter to him.
2. How much lens flare will be present. Will I need sunglasses for light saber battles?

Sent from my Etch A Sketch.
 
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