If you read the more recent articles with Kasdan and JJ about their collaboration, it comes across much different then that. Read the Rolling Stone piece in particular. They spent weeks breaking out the entire story while taking walks together. Kasdan in particular has said they sort of started from scratch but JJ pointed out they didn't have enough time and they kept those core characters and locations. All of this is in these interviews, FWI. There also was an unsubstiated rumor that JJ almost left the project early and it may have been his unhappiness with the GL/Arendt treatment. But as you say, the eventual making of book will be very interesting!
Lucasfilm CEO Kathleen Kennedy says that while the Force Awakens doesn't follow George Lucas' original treatments for a sequel trilogy, they were an inspiration
"We had discussions based off of George's treatments," she says, "and then when J.J. and Larry came into the process, there were new ideas being discussed, which is normally what would happen in a development process. We didn't have a script, we didn't have an extensive treatment of any kind, so we were still trying to find the story for the movie, so it's not as though something was just read and then set aside, and everybody said, 'Oh, we don't want to do that, we're going to start on this new thing.' Everything emanated from what George had created with the original movies, and then some of the things he was talking about in this brief synopsis. We carried on from there."
I think the real question is one of quantity, almost. Like, saying "We based it on George's outline" is ultimately meaningless unless you know how detailed George's outline was, and how much they based on it vs. how much they deviated from it. At a guess, George's outline probably was pretty spare, and/or the amount they took from it was fairly spare. I'll be curious to find out the Arendt vs. JJ/Kasdan contributions, though.
George can say 4-6 is about the redemption of vader all he wants, doesn't make it true.
There was nothing in 4 about the redemption. Period. It was all Vader killing people and being a general bad ass - nothing wrong with that.
You could argue the same thing about 5, too. Any misgivings there might have been were not present. Join me and defeat the emporer or I will kill you. Luke opts to jump off the tower. Nothing about redemption there.
6, ok, you can make the argument. Luke tells him from their first encounter he thinks he can return. Vader says too late for me son, only to flip when the emperor is about to kill him. Regardless, 6 is not about that, it's a subplot, and the plot is the rebels defeating the empire for what we though was for good.
I still don't see how saving your son from being grilled to death lets you become a good side guy again. He only killed what? millions? Saving your kid wipes that out? This is why i say the hope is not lost for Ren...if vader is allowed to come back - anyone can.
I think it's a question of redemption vs. repentance. Is Vader redeemed? Well, that depends on who decides the question. I would argue that, in his son's eyes, yes, he's redeemed. In the eyes of, say, surviving Alderaanians? Yeah, maybe not.
Does Vader repent of his previous evil? That, I think, is pretty clear. He absolutely does.
When it comes to Kylo Ren, I think they're already laying the foundation for him being conflicted. He killed his father, likely killed a group of Jedi students, killed or ordered the deaths of dozens of innocents, but can he be redeemed? I don't know. He can certainly repent, though.
Another thing I noticed was the emphasis on how the division between light and dark seems...not quite as stark as the previous films have made it. When Rey fights Kylo Ren, it's clear she's fighting with anger. Does that mean she'll succumb to the dark side forever? I doubt it. Likewise, Kylo Ren struggles with his own desire to embrace the light, to be good again, and absolutely struggles to kill his father. We still don't know his motivations, but I would bet there's a deal of self-loathing involved.
Anyway, I kind of wonder if Luke will ultimately teach Rey that there must always be a balance to the Force, and that there can be no light without dark, and vice versa. Also, that Luke would ultimately reject the absolutist views of the old Jedi Order -- where anger, fear, hate, aggression were all just "The dark side, full stop," and must be banished from one's emotional compass at all costs. It's alright to feel these things, but the ultimate difference is what one
chooses to do in response to those feelings. So, Rey can let herself feel anger in her fight against Kylo Ren, but she's gotta know when to stop short of killing him, rather than just blindly giving in to her anger. It's not that "these emotions are bad," but rather, acting selfishly especially when based on these emotions is bad behavior, which will lead to a cycle of self-hatred that is ultimately redirected outwards at the galaxy, indiscriminately, a la what we see Kylo Ren do.
