Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Post-release)

[Cephus]

Empire Strikes Back. C-3PO: "I don't know where your ship learned to communicate, but it has a most peculiar dialect." Threepio was talking to something that was part of the ship.

--Jonah

There's a difference between a computer and artificial intelligence. You can talk to your computer and get a response. It's independent thought and consciousness that makes one an AI. C3P0 and R2 are clearly AI. We've never seen the Falcon demonstrate that kind of individuality.

 

[JD]

There's a difference between a computer and artificial intelligence. You can talk to your computer and get a response. It's independent thought and consciousness that makes one an AI. C3P0 and R2 are clearly AI. We've never seen the Falcon demonstrate that kind of individuality.

Again, you're the one who brought the idea of AI having anything to do with this. I also don't think you're completely aware of what AI actually is...

Artificial Intelligence (AI) is usually defined as the science of making computers do things that require intelligence when done by humans. AI has had some success in limited, or simplified, domains.

Clearly, AI is a moot issue in this discussion. As an aside, it's also clear that C-3PO was communicating with the Falcon - this wasn't an automated phone system, this was something with a dialect which suggests something a little more than just a computer - arguably, this wiki article discusses this briefly (while still not canon).

 

[Mara Jade's Father]

The Falcon does not have AI. If it was really AI, why would a protocol droid be needed to be plugged in just to communicate. It's basically like taking my car to the dealership and hooking in a computer to do a diagnostic and the onboard computer can communicate to the diagnostic device and indicate issues. Even if it had a actual voice, it doesn't mean AI. Siri on my iPhone talks to me and that is not AI.

The mention of dialect can simply mean "a special variety of a language". We have computer languages such as...

• Programming language, a formal language designed to communicate instructions to a machine, particularly a computer[1]
• Command language, a language used to control the tasks of the computer itself, such as starting other programs
• Machine language or machine code, a set of instructions executed directly by a computer's central processing unit
• Markup language, a grammar for annotating a document in a way that is syntactically distinguishable from the text, such as HTML
• Style sheet language, a computer language that expresses the presentation of structured documents, such as CSS
• Configuration language, a language used to write configuration files
• Construction language, a general category that includes configuration languages, toolkit languages, and programming languages
• Query language, a language used to make queries in databases and information systems
• Modeling language, a formal language used to express information or knowledge, often for use in computer system design

...and none of those are AI. In Star Wars speak, a dialect of a computer language can simply mean that it has some differences from what is considered standard.

Jeeze I hate to do this as an example, but...

The computer on the Enterprise, communicates and has several automated systems, but still not AI.

Additionally, if the Falcon had AI, that would be pretty big and it would be more obvious and also noted in the databank.

 

[Riceball]

Like I mentioned previously, it's more than likely that the Falcon, and other sophisticated machines in Star Wars, can probably communicate in a diagnostic mode much like computers and computerized machines do today, but instead of simply spitting out an error code if something's wrong they're probably able to go into greater detail as to what's wrong as well as probably being to report how they're functioning overall, good or bad.

 

[JD]

:lol - again, you offer zero to back-up that it might.

If it doesn't fit your narrow view of what AI is, that's great. However, AI isn't limited by your scope. There are plenty of much more valued opinions that consider Siri an AI - just as there are plenty that don't.

It's important to note that AI does not mean sentient. There are also plenty of articles that refer to car accident avoidance and other tech bits as AI. Being AI doesn't mean you need it to pass the Turing test.

"Roughly speaking, Artificial Intelligence is the study of man-made computational devices and systems which can be made to act in a manner which we would be inclined to call intelligent." - István S. N. Berkeley Ph.D. (UL)

"Simply put, artificial intelligence is a sub-field of computer science. Its goal is to enable the development of computers that are able to do things normally done by people -- in particular, things associated with people acting intelligently." - Kris Hammond, Phd. (Computer World - Computer Narrative)

Going back to SW and the old EU - "it was up to the preference of the shipbuilders whether their ships were granted droid-like sapience or not." We only have to look at the PT to see plenty of ships with AI - it's not unreasonable to think that the Falcon might as well.

The Falcon does not have AI. If it was really AI, why would a protocol droid be needed to be plugged in just to communicate. It's basically like taking my car to the dealership and hooking in a computer to do a diagnostic and the onboard computer can communicate to the diagnostic device and indicate issues. Even if it had a actual voice, it doesn't mean AI. Siri on my iPhone talks to me and that is not AI.

Here's another article detailing how there were 7 million cars with AI in the US last year.

This is a needless debate.

 

[Mara Jade's Father]

:lol - again, you offer zero to back-up that it might.

If it doesn't fit your narrow view of what AI is, that's great. However, AI isn't limited by your scope. There are plenty of much more valued opinions that consider Siri an AI - just as there are plenty that don't.

It's important to note that AI does not mean sentient. There are also plenty of articles that refer to car accident avoidance and other tech bits as AI. Being AI doesn't mean you need it to pass the Turing test.

"Roughly speaking, Artificial Intelligence is the study of man-made computational devices and systems which can be made to act in a manner which we would be inclined to call intelligent." - István S. N. Berkeley Ph.D. (UL)

"Simply put, artificial intelligence is a sub-field of computer science. Its goal is to enable the development of computers that are able to do things normally done by people -- in particular, things associated with people acting intelligently." - Kris Hammond, Phd. (Computer World - Computer Narrative)

Going back to SW and the old EU - "it was up to the preference of the shipbuilders whether their ships were granted droid-like sapience or not." We only have to look at the PT to see plenty of ships with AI - it's not unreasonable to think that the Falcon might as well.



Here's another article detailing how there were 7 million cars with AI in the US last year.

This is a needless debate.

Yes, that is AI... Just like those things they sell in the mall are hover boards.

But the tone of the debate: Is the Falcon itself artificial intelligence? Is it...

artificial intelligence The ability of a computer or other machine to perform actions thought torequire intelligence. Among these actions are logical deduction andinference, creativity, the ability to make decisions based on pastexperience or insufficient or conflicting information, and the ability tounderstand spoken language. The American Heritage® Science Dictionary

Copyright © 2002. Published by Houghton Mifflin. All rights reserved.

or

artificial intelligence (AI)
The means of duplicating or imitating intelligence in computers, robots, orother devices, which allows them to solve problems, discriminate amongobjects, and respond to voice commands.
The American Heritage® New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, Third Edition

Copyright © 2005 by Houghton Mifflin Company.

or

artificial intelligence
(AI) The subfield of computer science concerned with the concepts and methods of symbolic inference by computer and symbolic knowledge representation for use in making inferences. AI can be seen as an attempt to model aspects of human thought on computers. It is also sometimesdefined as trying to solve by computer any problem that a human cansolve faster. The term was coined by Stanford Professor John McCarthy, aleading AI researcher.
The Free On-line Dictionary of Computing, © Denis Howe 2010 http://foldoc.org

While I can see that by your examples some systems on the Falcon such as a Navicompture might be considered AI in the simplest form, I do not see canon examples that demonstrates the Falcon as a whole is an example of the above definitions.

 

[Toadmeister]

Let it go dudes....

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[Mara Jade's Father]

Have to give you props for a sense of humor

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

I collect props, so I'll take them.

Okay, let me get back to a subject that sort of brought me over in the first place.

Luke's Lightsaber....

Does anyone else feel that the lightsaber has inherited some mystical qualities? I'm not sure how to explain it but I keep thinking of the artifacts in Warehouse 13.

 

[JD]

While I can see that by your examples some systems on the Falcon such as a Navicompture might be considered AI in the simplest form, I do not see canon examples that demonstrates the Falcon as a whole is an example of the above definitions.

Simplest form... the correct term is "weak" or "narrow AI" (non-sentient computer intelligence, typically focused on a narrow task. The intelligence of weak AI is limited).

I'm not stating that the Falcon as a whole is AI. Although, there is enough subjective* information that one can think it could be, depending on how you look at the Falcon as a whole. Seeing that Threepio communicated with the Falcon (not the navicomputer specifically), it's not beyond the realm of possibility that there is an AI system that manages or oversees or communicates with the navicomputer and other ship systems. (Let's also note that the 3PO communicated and mentioned that the ship learned a dialect, which could mean nothing... or something very specific).

Actually, we can look to the old EU... the Falcon had a couple of computers: Navigation, avionics... and a main computer. The Falcon's main computer was rebuilt with 3 droid brains. If you reckon that Artoo and 3PO were AI, then there you go - the ship had three droid brains built into the main computer (which was normally just one). So if you think droid's are AI, then it's easy to rationalize the Falcon's main computer was, too (possibly even schizophrenic, to boot).

There is nothing new canon either way that's going to confirm this 100% either way - and the old canon only (arguably) hints at it.

But, once again - this is a moot conversation and a needless debate.




*I hope I didn't get the subjective/objective mixed up.

- - - Updated - - -

Let it go dudes....

Sorry, I've got more info to share . I know it's pointless for the most part and it really isn't on topic... and I'm not really sure how we got there anymore.

 

[Montagar]

Let's stick to discussing the movie and leave the personal stuff out, thanks.

 

[The Terminator]

Luke's Lightsaber....

Does anyone else feel that the lightsaber has inherited some mystical qualities? I'm not sure how to explain it but I keep thinking of the artifacts in Warehouse 13.

NOPE, thought that was peculiar in TFA.

When it comes to that particular aspect, Warehouse 13 is definitely "out there"

 

[JD]

As established in the Ashoka novel, lightsaber crystals are connected to a Jedi.

Star Wars database says:

At the heart of every Jedi lightsaber is a kyber crystal found on several planets, most notably the icebound caves of Ilum. This crystal is attuned to the Force, and connected to a Jedi Knight on a deeply personal level. In this way, a lightsaber is an extension of a Jedi's Force awareness. Because Jedi let the Force guide their selection of the crystal, the vibration that the crystal creates in the lightsaber blade helps Jedi center themselves and find balance in the Force. In this way, a Jedi can center his or her attention beyond the distractions of combat. A lightsaber crystal is colorless until first attuned and connected to a Jedi -- at which times it glows either blue or green, or in some rare instances, another shade. From that point on, it retains that hue.

It's as if the crystals have midichlorians now.

 

[Victor3]

This is consistent with what is seen in the Clone Wars episode on Illum. The padawans were likely surrounded by kyber crystals, but they knew that they would have to earn them - to be "presented" with them by the Force. The specifics of that trial were contingent upon their own personalities. I haven't read Ahsoka yet, so I don't know how it pertains to her white sabers.
What I do like is the statement that the color stays the same after that first moment, whatever happens to its wielder. That explains why Jedi end up with consistent blade colors across multiple sabers, and why the Graflex didn't turn red when Anakin turned.

As for the midichlorians - the Force is more than them. Whether they directly allow one greater control over the Force, or are simply correlated with one's strength is open to fan debate - and probably debate among the Jedi themselves. Qui-Gon's explanation to Anakin in Ep1 may be the equivalent of teaching your kid about Feng-shui or pyramid power.

"You see, Anakin - I always put my razor into this wire pyramid after I've shaved. It keeps the blade sharper, longer."
"Ok, master. That's weird, but I'm just an uneducated kid from the desert. You must know a lot more than me..."

We all saw Mace roll his eyes when Qui-Gon theorized that Anakin had been created by the midichlorians.

The Force is something distinct from, yet linked to, the midichlorians in living things. It obviously can have an effect on non-living things (droids, pillars, rocks, X-wings) as well.

 

[Mara Jade's Father]

A lot of people got bent out of shape when they revealed the existence of midichlorians in The Phantom Menace because it took away from the spiritual aspect and mysticism of the force. It didn't bother me. That's just a small aspect of the Force. It simply explained why one person over the other can control the force and how strong that person might be connected to it. But there is still so much surrounded in mystery I feel that both the Clone Wars and Rebels TV shows have added to the mystery of the Force while giving some insight as to what it is.

So I find it interesting at the thought that the force could in some way influence an inanimate object. The idea that it might be possible due to the kyber crystal is indeed very interesting. Maz said the lightsaber "called" to Rey and of course the visions once she touched it tells me that their has to be something to it. Furthermore, it would seem as if the lightsaber resisted the call of Kylo Ren when he tried to pull it from the snow. I don't think I am alone in recognizing it choosing Rey's call over Wren's call was similar to the King Arthur/Excalibur legend.

 

[Bryancd]

I think the Force is acting upon Rey and guiding her hand and her journey. The lightsaber was just a point along that journey but not imbued with the Force. The Force brought her to that moment and her picking up the saber was the moment the Force showed her its journey and hers and how they have now met.

 

[Halliwax]

I collect props, so I'll take them.

Okay, let me get back to a subject that sort of brought me over in the first place.

Luke's Lightsaber....

Does anyone else feel that the lightsaber has inherited some mystical qualities? I'm not sure how to explain it but I keep thinking of the artifacts in Warehouse 13.

no, its just a rare and sought after artifact. it slaughtered all the jedi in the jedi temple. i look at it like when purchasing a WWII pistol, " this gun could have killed nazi's! "

if they do change things around and make it so the graflex is this mystical relic i will not be so happy...

 

[Mara Jade's Father]

no, its just a rare and sought after artifact. it slaughtered all the jedi in the jedi temple. i look at it like when purchasing a WWII pistol, " this gun could have killed nazi's! "

if they do change things around and make it so the graflex is this mystical relic i will not be so happy...

Still all speculation mind you...

I would argue that the lightsaber is neither good nor evil but its active part it played in the prophecy of bringing balance to the Force. It's call to Rey may not be good or evil but because she represents the natural balance. If we go along the Kyber crystal line of thought, we know the color is set from the beginning and does not change once established. I always felt the Jedi and Sith wasn't about good and bad but instead balance (the light) and unbalance (the dark).

 

[nwjedidave]

just rewatched TFA first trailer. Did they actually use the front looking back shot of the falcon going into hyper space in the theatrical cut?

 

[robn1]

just rewatched TFA first trailer. Did they actually use the front looking back shot of the falcon going into hyper space in the theatrical cut?

At 1:35:29 approaching Starkiller Base.

 

[JD]

Anyone familiar with the 3D release of TFA? Are any of the new materials available on the non-3D disc?