matty matt
Sr Member
Lol. Did not disappoint.
Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Post-release)
- Thread starter Vivek
- Start date
Lol. Did not disappoint.
Zombie_61
Master Member
Just one of many services I have to offer.Lol Dude way to complicate things again.
Ben
Just one of many services I have to offer.
I lol'd so much when you said it. It was perfect timing.
Ben
Watching the Blu-Ray and it's made so clear in the film that Rey's use of the Force is something she doesn't understand. When she pilots the Falcon in the escape from Jakku she tells Fin she doesn't know how she did it. After mind tricking the ST Fin asks her how she escaped and she says she doesn't know and he wouldn't believe her. And when Kylo Ren has her on the defensive during their saber fight and he tells her he can teach her the Force, she says "The Force?" And it's a question, not a statement. At no point in the film until that moment does she know how she is accessing the Force, it's simply acting through her.
You mean it controls your actions?
matty matt
Sr Member
No one can use the force without years of intensive training. To suggest otherwise is to...oh wait, nevermind.
I've come to the realization that kids today aren't the same as I was at their age. They're much more advanced.
My daughter just entered into Kindergarten and half the kids entering could already read! Right now she's doing multiplication. I don't think we did that when I was her age. This is frigging Kindergarten! At this rate, I swear, she's going to be doing partial differential equations by 6th grade!
So it is with the Force. Luke has to do Jedi Boot Camp on Dagobah before he can barely move a rock. Rey could probably force choke someone on an orbiting star destroyer from the ground by now.
My daughter just entered into Kindergarten and half the kids entering could already read! Right now she's doing multiplication. I don't think we did that when I was her age. This is frigging Kindergarten! At this rate, I swear, she's going to be doing partial differential equations by 6th grade!
So it is with the Force. Luke has to do Jedi Boot Camp on Dagobah before he can barely move a rock. Rey could probably force choke someone on an orbiting star destroyer from the ground by now.
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Or even...
cboath
Master Member
Wow, that is a difference. Circa 1980 - we started multiplication around 4th grade.
Having watched the film several times now on DVD I have to admire just how open to interpretation a huge amount of the dialogue is. Really, it DOES all depend on a certain point of view.
What does come across very strongly is just how much mind control features in this, certainly as a method of directing people. I wonder if Snoke is so desperate to eliminate Luke and the Jedi because he is using something to amplify the darker mental influencing elements of the Force and the lightside directly counteracts this: Look how Rey responds to Kylos crude and violent attacks in a way that Poe couldn't. Her terrified reaction to the Force visions with the lightsabre almost convince me she has a mental block in place that was close to shattering: Within the vision on Jakku the alien clearly avoids using her name when telling her to be quiet; she doesn't identify the Falcon as being Solos ship despite working on it and knowing some of its history. She knows of Han Solos part in the original rebellion but Luke (who blew up the Deathstar) is a myth???
That and the fact we hear at the beginning that the "FIrst Order arises from the darkside< you did not" and Kylos obviously terribly conflicted personality really say to me that Snoke controls nearly all his servants via some sort of amplified Force mind control. We know that the FO kidnaps and brainwashes all its troops from childhood as we see Phasma examine Finns younger image on screen. I am really convinced that the same technique was used on "Rey" to hide her and her abilities from Snoke, which was why ,once the controls started to crack that the awakening is immediately sensed by Snoke.
What does come across very strongly is just how much mind control features in this, certainly as a method of directing people. I wonder if Snoke is so desperate to eliminate Luke and the Jedi because he is using something to amplify the darker mental influencing elements of the Force and the lightside directly counteracts this: Look how Rey responds to Kylos crude and violent attacks in a way that Poe couldn't. Her terrified reaction to the Force visions with the lightsabre almost convince me she has a mental block in place that was close to shattering: Within the vision on Jakku the alien clearly avoids using her name when telling her to be quiet; she doesn't identify the Falcon as being Solos ship despite working on it and knowing some of its history. She knows of Han Solos part in the original rebellion but Luke (who blew up the Deathstar) is a myth???
That and the fact we hear at the beginning that the "FIrst Order arises from the darkside< you did not" and Kylos obviously terribly conflicted personality really say to me that Snoke controls nearly all his servants via some sort of amplified Force mind control. We know that the FO kidnaps and brainwashes all its troops from childhood as we see Phasma examine Finns younger image on screen. I am really convinced that the same technique was used on "Rey" to hide her and her abilities from Snoke, which was why ,once the controls started to crack that the awakening is immediately sensed by Snoke.
Also I don't know how I missed this but during the interrogation of Rey by Kylo, when he first looks into her mind he says he sees her dreams of "an ocean, and yes he sees the island". How does Rey even know that???? Is it proof that the Force is operating on her subconsciously to tell her where Luke is, or has she already been there and taken away from it later?
The further you look at it the more possibilities open up. However, there are also more than a few terrible scripting errors that are VERY obvious with repeat viewings and they are weakly glossed over, and yet they have flawed the film more deeply for me than the couple of times I watched it at the cinema. I just hope they've spent a little more time thinking about the script on Rogue One and Ep VIII instead of rushing them through. A little objective critical assessment would have helped TFA become a brilliantly better film rather than a fairly good one.
The further you look at it the more possibilities open up. However, there are also more than a few terrible scripting errors that are VERY obvious with repeat viewings and they are weakly glossed over, and yet they have flawed the film more deeply for me than the couple of times I watched it at the cinema. I just hope they've spent a little more time thinking about the script on Rogue One and Ep VIII instead of rushing them through. A little objective critical assessment would have helped TFA become a brilliantly better film rather than a fairly good one.
Where did Larry and JJ error? Tell us about these scripting errors? Objective or subjective opinion?
astroboy
Master Member
The jokes were pretty rough. (Han solo had never tried the bow caster? ) the macguffin stuff with r2 was so clumsy that no one really understood what was going on. So did poe Dameron simply stop looking for bb8 after the tie fighter crash? Rathtars.
I know that we can say that's all subjective, but a lot of the dialogue was quite clumsy. They were so self concious about too much exposition That they kinda missed the mark on most of it.
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astroboy
Master Member
It did land, but it was still pretty clumsy. And broad.I think the humor in almost all instances landed, subjective of course.
And you know the line that hit me the worst?
"This will begin to set things right"
It's like they were looking right at the camera and winking. And as a person who loves the clone wars, likes the prequels and has huge admiration for Lucas but has yet to like Abrams, I took it as an insult.
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kristen jones
Master Member
and that is why you fail (to enjoy it)
seriously... I expect most of these "objections " are attributable to expectation rather than a failing of the writing, production, direction, acting or any other such.
instead of constantly focussing on what you already "love" and hoping that TFA will fit into that mold, instead try to let it be what it is and take it as it comes and I believe one would see things quite differently.
seriously... I expect most of these "objections " are attributable to expectation rather than a failing of the writing, production, direction, acting or any other such.
instead of constantly focussing on what you already "love" and hoping that TFA will fit into that mold, instead try to let it be what it is and take it as it comes and I believe one would see things quite differently.
Kirstens right they are subjective observations. Unfortuntely given the way I think I have almost always two POVs . One that enjoys the film and one that unhappily deconstructs everything to see if it make sense (the later is mostly subconsious but its impossible to ignore,it just crystallizes like an "error" message.
So here are a few of the most pressing issues for me. Sorry about the length, the original was three times longer.Remember you did ask.
So Max VSs character had obviously gone looking around the galaxy to find the other part of the map,and its not clear where he found it. So it is annoying ,once he has it that he doesn't take it back to Leia, given he already knows her as "royalty"and is looking for looking for Luke, and about Kylo but he returns to Jakku?
This is where Kylo Ren is revealed as one of the most mentally challenged ex jedi ever.Stupid doesn't even cover it. Given that he spends most of the movie chasing, capturing and mind probing people who have had any contact with the map then why oh why does he kill the person who has actually found it and probably looked at the chart to verify the data (and Lukes location) immediately? And without apparently bothering to ask where or from whom he obtained it, who must also have known what information it carried.A bit of rash thing to do?
Which takes me to the greatest and idiotically missed opportunities in the TFA and why Snoke should sack Ren on the spot:
Given that he captures Poe and knows he has "the greatest single pilot in the Resistance " because Kylo tells him that ( and sure enough Poe shoots down ten Ties in ten seconds just to show us in case we missed it, but hardly gets one later in the finale battle ) why does Kylo Ren only ask him about the droid?
Why not mind probe him as to WHERE THE RESISTANCE BASE is!!!!! So Starkiller base can wipe it out immediately. If BB8 knows it then Poe must.He is their greatest pilot after all. I know because I can read his mind. But no. Lets ignore this glaringly important and critical fact. Just the droid with the map will do.
We are told by Hux that "The Republic is protected by the Resistance" in the group meeting with Snoke. So you would have thought its a bit of a priority to find their base first? In a rousing speech to hundreds of First Order soldiers (who then apparently cannot be found anywhere once Han Solo and co decided to enter the FO base) Hux says that "Today is they day we destroy the New Republic and their Fleet". So not the Resistance then? And you have the entire Republic fleet in the whole galaxy around one planet? Lucky FO!!!
Epic, EPIC fail!!!!!!
And the TFA IS filled with issues like this but really the worst for me being now that everybody knows where everyone is because they track them any where in the galaxy somehow!!!Don't believe me?
The most obvious example of this is Han finding the Falcon because he can track it? How? He couldn't find it when its flown and passed on to several other people from Du Kane to Unkar Platt over decades and yet Rey and Finn have been flying for about ten minutes and bang , we've found her Chewie ??????
And if it is a tracking device that can be so easily tracked (including by the terrible FO with a multi planet killing weapon) then why does Han then fly it directly to everyone he is hoping to keep safe from them? He actually says so. He SAYS IT!!!! To Rey !On the Falcon!!!
Why doesn't he and Chewie hop to nowhere special, kick Rey and Finn off and get them picked up by the Resistance? Thousands of systems to choose from .He could have radioed ahead as everybody else does as you hear at Mazs castle ( and this hugely annoys me ,that, thanks to JJ, now all communication throughout the entire SW galaxy is better and more instantaneous than everyones mobile phone reception here on Earth). Or ,even better, just stop and look for the tracking device? How can we have smugglers , or Resistance fighters or hidden bases in a galaxy where any single ship can be traced in moments by everyone apparently anywhere??
Don't believe me?
Leia actually sends a reconnaissance ship to Starkiller base ,though how she knew where to find it given that they had already moved onto a new sun is beyond me. Even Finn couldn't have known where it was if it was the case that one SK shot equals one drained sun.
Oh well it didn't matter. Because rather than that reconnaissance ship staying in orbit or flying somewhere else and radioing the information back they fly return directly back to Leia with it, leading the FO straight to the Resistance, which is kind of handy because they had already missed , like I have said before , several glowing opportunities.
How do I know this? Because Hux actually says "We've tracked the Resistance reconnaissance ship back to their hidden base." They tracked a single ship they didn't know was coming back to its place of origin. How? If its through hyperspace then the whole way the SW universe operates is in real trouble.
How do I know JJ is respouncible for this? Because the biggest single flaw introduced into " Star Trek: Into Darkness" (apart from the whole Khan thing) was the sudden ability of a starship to track and attack another in warp space.
And the TFA is unfortunately replete with contradictory and universe altering errors like that. I could go on and on but it would probably upset people even more than I suspect this post will.
I did enjoy the film very much the first two times I saw it ( apart from the rathras, but we won't go there), just read my old posts. Its saved by a great new cast and characters, it has brilliant visuals ,it felt very much like a very successful return to the SW univers of old and it had great, great energy.
But thats the been the main problem for me after watching it a couple of times on DVD ( I only saw it twice at the cinema). Once you stopped and get off that breathless ride and rush from action set piece to set piece and pause to think about how it all happened and recognise the underlying principles sacrificed to make everything in the film occur as it does, you'll realise its going to be very hard to fix in the next two films, which does bother me alot.
I don't hate the film, I still rate it highly ,but its dropped below Jedi now so its fourth in the series for me. I think Rey is great, I don't have any problems with her sudden abilities given what I've percieved in her backstory but I am fairly worried that so many ways in which the SW universe operated and worked well for me have been so radically changed .
So here are a few of the most pressing issues for me. Sorry about the length, the original was three times longer.Remember you did ask.
So Max VSs character had obviously gone looking around the galaxy to find the other part of the map,and its not clear where he found it. So it is annoying ,once he has it that he doesn't take it back to Leia, given he already knows her as "royalty"and is looking for looking for Luke, and about Kylo but he returns to Jakku?
This is where Kylo Ren is revealed as one of the most mentally challenged ex jedi ever.Stupid doesn't even cover it. Given that he spends most of the movie chasing, capturing and mind probing people who have had any contact with the map then why oh why does he kill the person who has actually found it and probably looked at the chart to verify the data (and Lukes location) immediately? And without apparently bothering to ask where or from whom he obtained it, who must also have known what information it carried.A bit of rash thing to do?
Which takes me to the greatest and idiotically missed opportunities in the TFA and why Snoke should sack Ren on the spot:
Given that he captures Poe and knows he has "the greatest single pilot in the Resistance " because Kylo tells him that ( and sure enough Poe shoots down ten Ties in ten seconds just to show us in case we missed it, but hardly gets one later in the finale battle ) why does Kylo Ren only ask him about the droid?
Why not mind probe him as to WHERE THE RESISTANCE BASE is!!!!! So Starkiller base can wipe it out immediately. If BB8 knows it then Poe must.He is their greatest pilot after all. I know because I can read his mind. But no. Lets ignore this glaringly important and critical fact. Just the droid with the map will do.
We are told by Hux that "The Republic is protected by the Resistance" in the group meeting with Snoke. So you would have thought its a bit of a priority to find their base first? In a rousing speech to hundreds of First Order soldiers (who then apparently cannot be found anywhere once Han Solo and co decided to enter the FO base) Hux says that "Today is they day we destroy the New Republic and their Fleet". So not the Resistance then? And you have the entire Republic fleet in the whole galaxy around one planet? Lucky FO!!!
Epic, EPIC fail!!!!!!
And the TFA IS filled with issues like this but really the worst for me being now that everybody knows where everyone is because they track them any where in the galaxy somehow!!!Don't believe me?
The most obvious example of this is Han finding the Falcon because he can track it? How? He couldn't find it when its flown and passed on to several other people from Du Kane to Unkar Platt over decades and yet Rey and Finn have been flying for about ten minutes and bang , we've found her Chewie ??????
And if it is a tracking device that can be so easily tracked (including by the terrible FO with a multi planet killing weapon) then why does Han then fly it directly to everyone he is hoping to keep safe from them? He actually says so. He SAYS IT!!!! To Rey !On the Falcon!!!
Why doesn't he and Chewie hop to nowhere special, kick Rey and Finn off and get them picked up by the Resistance? Thousands of systems to choose from .He could have radioed ahead as everybody else does as you hear at Mazs castle ( and this hugely annoys me ,that, thanks to JJ, now all communication throughout the entire SW galaxy is better and more instantaneous than everyones mobile phone reception here on Earth). Or ,even better, just stop and look for the tracking device? How can we have smugglers , or Resistance fighters or hidden bases in a galaxy where any single ship can be traced in moments by everyone apparently anywhere??
Don't believe me?
Leia actually sends a reconnaissance ship to Starkiller base ,though how she knew where to find it given that they had already moved onto a new sun is beyond me. Even Finn couldn't have known where it was if it was the case that one SK shot equals one drained sun.
Oh well it didn't matter. Because rather than that reconnaissance ship staying in orbit or flying somewhere else and radioing the information back they fly return directly back to Leia with it, leading the FO straight to the Resistance, which is kind of handy because they had already missed , like I have said before , several glowing opportunities.
How do I know this? Because Hux actually says "We've tracked the Resistance reconnaissance ship back to their hidden base." They tracked a single ship they didn't know was coming back to its place of origin. How? If its through hyperspace then the whole way the SW universe operates is in real trouble.
How do I know JJ is respouncible for this? Because the biggest single flaw introduced into " Star Trek: Into Darkness" (apart from the whole Khan thing) was the sudden ability of a starship to track and attack another in warp space.
And the TFA is unfortunately replete with contradictory and universe altering errors like that. I could go on and on but it would probably upset people even more than I suspect this post will.
I did enjoy the film very much the first two times I saw it ( apart from the rathras, but we won't go there), just read my old posts. Its saved by a great new cast and characters, it has brilliant visuals ,it felt very much like a very successful return to the SW univers of old and it had great, great energy.
But thats the been the main problem for me after watching it a couple of times on DVD ( I only saw it twice at the cinema). Once you stopped and get off that breathless ride and rush from action set piece to set piece and pause to think about how it all happened and recognise the underlying principles sacrificed to make everything in the film occur as it does, you'll realise its going to be very hard to fix in the next two films, which does bother me alot.
I don't hate the film, I still rate it highly ,but its dropped below Jedi now so its fourth in the series for me. I think Rey is great, I don't have any problems with her sudden abilities given what I've percieved in her backstory but I am fairly worried that so many ways in which the SW universe operated and worked well for me have been so radically changed .
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Han was using his scanners as he was freighting around the Galaxy. I'm pretty sure he has to be very close to know it's the falcon. He says it was picked up on his scanners when talking about getting a clean ship at Maz's. He also says to Chewie they should have checked the outer reaches or something,meaning they still have to search and be in its nearby vicinity to locate it. I don't think it was anything to do with a tracking device but more about the signature the ship gives off.
Ben
Ben
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