Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Post-release)

JD said:
I don't think it's discussing flaws in a bad way. Plot holes aren't necessary flaws - maybe there's potential backstory there or something going on between the scenes - or sometimes you just miss something.
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Well they aren't plot holes then, are they? That was the whole point of the rebuttal AND my comment: don't call it a plot hole if you just missed something... fess up that you missed it and move on.

Also, doesn't it rather strike you as odd that the Huff Po writer could pen two diametrically opposed articles about the same subject matter in such a short time AND make an "ironic" statement about the "polarization of our culture" at the same time? Pot calling the kettle black much? UNLESS he actually fessed up and said "I realize I was being Bi-Polar on the whole Star Wars thing... I guess I need to chillax and look at things fresh before I give my impressions in print".
 
Inquisitor Peregrinus said:
JJ was interviewed on NPR yesterday. Much of what was said was in the same vein as elsewhere, and I was just kinda enjoying the ride while driving. Then he gave what is probably my favorite description of Daisy thus far: "If sunshine was talented..."

Love it.

--Jonah
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Much like Mark Hamill's description of young Warwick Davis in RotJ as "Sunshine in shoes"

J
 
JD said:
IDid she have some sort of training as a young child? I hate the idea of some sort of mind wipe - but, I guess it is possible that Luke (or someone) may've repressed some memories before she was left on Jakku.

Kylo's personality changes didn't seem sudden to me . He came off as someone conflicted.
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I don't think I said Kylos was immediate but it was definitely severe. His uncontainable anger seemed indicative of his internal conflict ,particularly when he killed his father, it seemed almost taken out of his hands. There seems to be an underlying influence under most of what happens in TFA ,from Reys to Finns and Kylos, as if they are all being driven by forces beyond their control ie Finns sudden breaking free of the influence of FO mind control. If Luke cannot obviously act in the universe without being hunted down, perhaps the subtle actions he is taking through others explains a lot about the coincidences we see in TFA. There are ,in truth, a lot in the OT, except they are better scripted so they are easier to follow ie mainly mystical comments from Obi and Yoda. Here we are left, intentionally or otherwise, to mainly guess at what the " Awakening" is all about.

Rey looked very young to have had much training as a Jedi. Perhaps the memory of what has happened to her has been repressed or falsely implanted (she truly believes she saw the spaceship leaving her, but is it totally real?). I think the problem is we have seen very little about her relationships and training on Jakku although we already know, she is self reliant, capable of using weapons and impressively tough , conditioned and determined to survive ,due to her life as a scavenger. Like I said in previous posts I think Rian Johnson writes brilliantly with his heros and anti heros, and the hardest part of ALL of this new trilogy is going to be making some sense for everybody of what exactly the Force is and its effects on everyone in the universe. Interesting times I'd say.
 
kristenhenry70 said:
Pretty sure that's exactly what they did. They just may not have done it the way YOU would have done.
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Yeah, for me ANH is the best film ever made. For me, it's perfect. It's the one I saw in theaters and impacted me the most. And as a kid the film was first and foremost FUN. It didn't challenge me intellectually it simply washed over me as a great adventure. That's what TFA is to me as well.
 
CutThumb said:
I don't think I said Kylos was immediate but it was definitely severe. His uncontainable anger seemed indicative of his internal conflict ,particularly when he killed his father, it seemed almost taken out of his hands. There seems to be an underlying influence under most of what happens in TFA ,from Reys to Finns and Kylos, as if they are all being driven by forces beyond their control ie Finns sudden breaking free of the influence of FO mind control. If Luke cannot obviously act in the universe without being hunted down, perhaps the subtle actions he is taking through others explains a lot about the coincidences we see in TFA. There are ,in truth, a lot in the OT, except they are better scripted so they are easier to follow ie mainly mystical comments from Obi and Yoda. Here we are left, intentionally or otherwise, to mainly guess at what the " Awakening" is all about.

Rey looked very young to have had much training as a Jedi. Perhaps the memory of what has happened to her has been repressed or falsely implanted (she truly believes she saw the spaceship leaving her, but is it totally real?). I think the problem is we have seen very little about her relationships and training on Jakku although we already know, she is self reliant, capable of using weapons and impressively tough , conditioned and determined to survive ,due to her life as a scavenger. Like I said in previous posts I think Rian Johnson writes brilliantly with his heros and anti heros, and the hardest part of ALL of this new trilogy is going to be making some sense for everybody of what exactly the Force is and its effects on everyone in the universe. Interesting times I'd say.
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Maybe we should all consider that the Force can manifest itself in individuals in different ways. We all seem to keep struggling with this idea of "training" and that to master the Force it requires a temple and instructors. But maybe the Force can also decide how it influences someone receptive to it, making them very powerful and capable without all the dogma. And maybe that's what makes Rey special.
 
kristenhenry70 said:
Well they aren't plot holes then, are they? That was the whole point of the rebuttal AND my comment: don't call it a plot hole if you just missed something... fess up that you missed it and move on.
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Well, gosh - let's totally avoid the point of the comment. Let's also totally ignore the author's follow-up comment. I guess you missed something and moved on. :facepalm

If you read the author's article that came out the day after his original, he touched on that. Yes, it appears the author was aware of some issues and had a follow up.

"For instance, it's not a plot hole that Rey can speak Wookiee; it's a plot hole that Han and Chewie aren't surprised by it. It's not a plot hole that Captain Phasma's character is lame; it's a plot hole -- a logical inconsistency -- that she swings wildly between being hardcore and pathetic for no reason whatsoever other than to advance the plot. It's not a plot hole that Finn has a crisis of conscience during his first military operation; it's a plot hole that Phasma makes clear Finn has been 100% compliant for more than two decades, despite knowing what the First Order is and does, and that a single instant then brings him 100% online (not even just 95%) morally. It's not a plot hole that R2D2 doesn't offer the Resistance Luke's whereabouts; it's a plot hole -- in a film world in which we know R2D2 can be forcibly made to reveal his stored data by human owners -- for the Resistance to never have tried (or, not been successful at) accessing data they knew from past experience R2D2 almost certainly had. And so on." (There's more - you should read it, it's a good read).

You probably didn't read that because he's not cussing, calling names and ranting about something you're blindsided by. (...and yes, Rey speaking Wookiee is a silly mention - but, that's what this article was supposed to be, lighthearted).

Is there stuff the author may've missed and called a plot hole? Most likely - he's writing a blog post (again - this was a blog post - not a journalistic news piece) geared towards the general public, not towards folks who may've seen this film 5 times. If someone drops a tissue on the street on accident, a cop shouldn't shoot the guy for littering - and that's what this rebuttal was akin to: someone overreacting and basically having a temper tantrum - a temper tantrum geared to go viral.

And my statement - "plot holes aren't necessary (sic) flaws - maybe there's potential backstory there..." I think is pretty self explanatory and in touch with the above statement.

Also, doesn't it rather strike you as odd that the Huff Po writer could pen two diametrically opposed articles about the same subject matter in such a short time AND make an "ironic" statement about the "polarization of our culture" at the same time? Pot calling the kettle black much? UNLESS he actually fessed up and said "I realize I was being Bi-Polar on the whole Star Wars thing... I guess I need to chillax and look at things fresh before I give my impressions in print".
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The guy clearly liked the movie - he went to great pains to stress that. I like the movie a lot - seen it 5 times - that doesn't mean we can't have issues with some of it. Nothing bi-polar about that at all.

You can like something and aware of its flaws at the same time.

Again, the author writes about (cough) "two diametrically opposed articles":

"A lot of people reading "40 Unforgivable Plot Holes" wondered how one could love a film and also see its glaring deficiencies. And yet, to compare apples and oranges, just as being willing to see how America could improve is a prerequisite for living here intelligently, loving a movie means seeing it for what it is and it isn't. And when the movie at issue is set to be the most successful movie in the history of cinema, some good old-fashioned reflection is in order. Reflection is even more urgent when we have high-brow publications like The New Yorker writing of Abrams' poorly plotted film, "It's so adroitly wrought that lovers of the original may not even notice the skill."

But, yeah - there's not Kylo Ren-esque temper tantrum, so you may've missed that, too.
 
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Bryancd said:
Yeah, for me ANH is the best film ever made. For me, it's perfect. It's the one I saw in theaters and impacted me the most. And as a kid the film was first and foremost FUN. It didn't challenge me intellectually it simply washed over me as a great adventure. That's what TFA is to me as well.
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As strange as it might seem, I think the beauty of Star Wars was that it wasn't cloaked in a veil of social relevance. Sci fi films of the time up until then seemed to be steeped in social commentary (e.g. Rollerball as a parable of corporate values extrapolated to excess, Planet of the Apes as an allegory for racism, Logan's Run with utopian consumerism.).

But the thing that I enjoyed about sci-fi movies wasn't the themes, it was the cool future tech, weapons, vehicles, concepts and designs. I watched movies for the ray gun shootouts, monsters and spaceships. I'm sure I wasn't alone. Star Wars was probably more honest about its intentions by being an unapologetic pulp adventure the likes of which we hadn't known since Buck Rogers. The success of Star Wars is testimony that I wasn't alone.

Star Wars isn't lowbrow entertainment IMO. Remember, the creator of this film is the same guy who brought us THX-1138 which was loaded with thematic gravity. I believe Star Wars was a conscious and reactionary film statement that was a slap in the face to pseudointellectual science fiction of the time.

Star Wars doesn't always get credit for being as revolutionary as it truly is.
 
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I'd take issue with a number of those plot holes, too.

Where is it established that Han is the only one, or a rare person who speaks wookiee?
Where is Phasma actually a badass? She orders finn to her office...she stands on a stage...nothing badass there. Just a cool outfit. For all we know it's nepotism as work.
Where is established that finn has ever been off ship or in an actual fight? he could have been in traning the entire time, or legit combat. Having never witnessed a massacre of innocents before, it's easily a life changing experience. You don't know what he's been exposed to before that mission.
 
cboath said:
I'd take issue with a number of those plot holes, too.

Where is it established that Han is the only one, or a rare person who speaks wookiee?
Where is Phasma actually a badass? She orders finn to her office...she stands on a stage...nothing badass there. Just a cool outfit. For all we know it's nepotism as work.
Where is established that finn has ever been off ship or in an actual fight? he could have been in traning the entire time, or legit combat. Having never witnessed a massacre of innocents before, it's easily a life changing experience. You don't know what he's been exposed to before that mission.
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The difference here is that you handled it like an adult. :)

And... FWIW...

We did see a lot Wookiees (what is the plural of Wookiee) in Episode III and the Jedi there didn't seem to have a whole of trouble understanding them. But, in the OT - it seemed like rare thing (although I guess it's never established).

Phasma never was a badass. Just like Boba Fett never was. She should've been TR-8R. :D
 
Yes... that is more or less what I think the rebuttal author (and myself as well) was saying is that most of these so called "plot holes" are either due to a lack of attention, or--as in the case of these few examples--open for WIDE interpretation or not taking into account that further background info may either come later or is intended to be filled in with our *imagination*
 
kristenhenry70 said:
Yes... that is more or less what I think the rebuttal author (and myself as well) was saying is that most of these so called "plot holes" are either due to a lack of attention, or--as in the case of these few examples--open for WIDE interpretation or not taking into account that further background info may either come later or is intended to be filled in with our *imagination*
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It's a shame one little blog post robbed you of your imagination. :D
 
Glad there won't be an extended cut. I want the movie I saw in the theater. It still irks me that I can't ever have a theatrical cut of AOTC (and I don't even really like that movie). It was simply never released. Or get the theatrical cut of TPM on DVD or BR. I'd be irritated if that happened to TFA. No "improvements!"
 
JD said:
It's a shame one little blog post robbed you of your imagination. :D
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....what? How did it "rob me of MY imagination"? I don't get where you even got that out of what I wrote. I said that some of the complaints of the Huff Po writer were over things that TFA intended us to FILL IN WITH OUR IMAGINATION. So where in that did I say or imply that I had lost MINE? Sometimes I wonder if you're reading the same things I'm writing.
 
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