STAR WARS Rebels new animated series!

[Wolfsburg]

Lol! You may not like the novelizations but they are just as canon as the movies except where they contradict. Then the movies take precedence.

 

[Sluis Van Shipyards]

I think the argument can be made that Vader's power was, by the time of ANH somewhat diminished. At the end of ROTS he was the Emporers main guy. In ANH is is sort of Tarkins lackey.

Vader is supposed to be much less powerful than Anakin was because he has less body. So, retroactively after ROTS, that's the reason the Emperor was trying to get Luke. Vader became a stopgap solution like Dooku was after Maul was killed. Vader was powerful, just not what the Emperor thought he was going to get with Anakin.

 

[Mara Jade's Father]

Lol! You may not like the novelizations but they are just as canon as the movies except where they contradict. Then the movies take precedence.

If it has the ability to be dismissed by another item, it is not true canon. It's like saying someone is a married bachelor. You can't have levels of canon no matter what they say in. Order to keep selling you books, comics, and video games.

 

[Mara Jade's Father]

I think the argument can be made that Vader's power was, by the time of ANH somewhat diminished. At the end of ROTS he was the Emporers main guy. In ANH is is sort of Tarkins lackey.

Tarkin's lackey is a little harsh. I always interrupted it as Tarkin was truly trusted by the Emperor. Vader was assigned to assist him with the Initial operations of the Death Star. It's not like he felt controlled by Tarkin, simply doing what he was assigned to do by his master.

Vader is supposed to be much less powerful than Anakin was because he has less body. So, retroactively after ROTS, that's the reason the Emperor was trying to get Luke. Vader became a stopgap solution like Dooku was after Maul was killed. Vader was powerful, just not what the Emperor thought he was going to get with Anakin.

I don't think his injuries made him weaker in the force. He might not have been able to cast force lightning but as long as he was in his suit, his injuries were not an issue. I think he grew weaker over time due to age and no real adversaries to keep his abilities honed. I think I remember a making of video or some other The Phantom Menace commentary in which Lucas (I believe) was saying that the movie would be the first time you saw fully trained Jedi in their prime doing battle (or something along those lines). Which would seem to indicate that Vader was not the badass he used to be.

But yes, I think Luke became an attractive replacement once he became known. IMHO, both Vader and the Emperor were keeping an eye on each other because they were looking to kill off the other and make Luke their replacement. I got to believe Vader was stronger than Yoda even as both their ages advanced or else Yoda himself would have faced him.

You will notice I say things like, I think, IMHO, I believe. I'm not trying to pass these off as facts, simply my interpretation. I believe that if Rebels comes along or another movie or tv show comes along and says something that rebukes my ideas, I not going to get mad. I'll be, oh.. Okay, now I know. I try to keep an open mind. My views are just that. I state the idea and try to support it and hope that it makes someone say, ok, I could see that as a possibility. Is Vader immediately a weak force user after his injuries? I say no, but I can see that it is a possibility.

 

[Wolfsburg]

If it has the ability to be dismissed by another item, it is not true canon. It's like saying someone is a married bachelor. You can't have levels of canon no matter what they say in. Order to keep selling you books, comics, and video games.

It seems you are terribly misinformed. There are no levels of canon. It was officially stated, just recently, the only canon are the movies, the novelizations of the movies, and TCW. It was also noted that in any case where the novelizations don't align with the movies (such as the Owen mention), the movies supersede the novelizations. That's a fact.

http://www.theforce.net/story/front/Yes_The_Star_Wars_Movie_Novelizations_Are_Canon_157749.asp

There's a reference to the novelizations in particular, if you don't believe me.

 

[Wolfsburg]

Vader is supposed to be much less powerful than Anakin was because he has less body. So, retroactively after ROTS, that's the reason the Emperor was trying to get Luke. Vader became a stopgap solution like Dooku was after Maul was killed. Vader was powerful, just not what the Emperor thought he was going to get with Anakin.

Yes, this is what I understood from the ROTS novelization as well. A lot of these guys are simply making stuff up to bolster a ridiculous argument that has no basis at all. I think they like arguing with official canon for the fun of it, it would seem.

 

[Mara Jade's Father]

It seems you are terribly misinformed. There are no levels of canon. It was officially stated, just recently, the only canon are the movies, the novelizations of the movies, and TCW. It was also noted that in any case where the novelizations don't align with the movies (such as the Owen mention), the movies supersede the novelizations. That's a fact.

No, you are misinformed. The levels I referred to was what Lucas marketing used to utilize to what was canon superseded other canon. My remarks were aimed at those who still think these exist. Even when they existed, I still believed them to be ridiculous because either something is canon or it is not. If you can dismiss it by something else coming along, then how can it be considered canon?

But thank the maker Disney and LFL have wiped the slate clean. As of now, the only canon is (and this comes from their recent press release:

...He set the films he created as the canon. This includes the six Star Wars episodes, and the many hours of content he developed and produced in Star Wars: The Clone Wars. These stories are the immovable objects of Star Wars history, the characters and events to which all other tales must align.

No BS about novelizations, or radio dramas, or production notes or any other piece of crap little detail you read on the back of a trading card.

 

[Wolfsburg]

You can ignore it all you want but you don't know what you're talking about. What I linked is an addendum to what is considered canon. Then again, you've proven you like to ignore anything that proves you wrong. What part of "The novelizations of the seven films--including The Clone Wars--are canon" can you not understand?

 

[Mara Jade's Father]

You can ignore it all you want but you don't know what you're talking about. What I quoted is from Disney and LFL, not a book company trying to cover their own ass. Then again, you've proven you like to ignore anything that proves you wrong. They talk about canon being immovable objects. How is it that you can have something canon that can be continually allowed to be hacked away as new information supersedes it?

 

[CutThumb]

Nice piece here at Empire about Rebels Dave Filoni Talks Star Wars Rebels .

As the Marvel films reach their marketing maturity peak next year you can certainly see how they are using their success as a working template to prepare Star Wars as a "re engergised" series across multiple media fronts. George Lucas decision to release the franchise could be the wisest he has ever made for both Lucasfilm and the fans, the breadth of the plannning is just hinted at but I think we will easily get a decades worth if not more out of this. Nods and storyline to characters in The Clone Wars seem to be destined to carry over into Rebels and perhaps further. Intersting bit on the Stormtroopers, I like their thinking!!!

 

[Bryancd]

My understanding is that the novels of the films are canon insofar as their content doesn't contradict the films (ie Owen being Bens brother as noted above ). And the ROTS I did say Vader's power was diminished due to his injuries, so making that argument would be canonical.

 

[Solo4114]

On the issue of what was and wasn't considered canonical....does it even matter anymore? It's done. The LucasFilm people had their various levels of what was "canon," but now we don't. Now we have canon, and everything else is basically "Legends." Everything new will be canon. Everything old should be presumed to not be canon, unless it's explicitly stated otherwise, regardless of what the previous attitudes were. Full stop.


Anyway, moving on to Rebels...

At a certain point you don’t even feel like you make this stuff once you release it to the world and people watch it. Star Wars is such a universal thing."

Reading that, and the rest of the interview, and watching more of the Clone Wars, I gotta say....this guy Filioni gets it. Sure, it's a cartoon, and therefore not as necessarily "grounded" as the films, but I still feel like he gets what's at the core of Star Wars, and what made it appeal to him as a kid, why it still appeals as an adult, and what will appeal moving forward. The discussion of the Stormtroopers, too, was particularly interesting, and explains a lot. Anyway, I'm actually kinda excited about this, and I've been pretty dour about all things Star Wars (other than the OOT) for a long time.

 

[Wolfsburg]

You can ignore it all you want but you don't know what you're talking about. What I quoted is from Disney and LFL, not a book company trying to cover their own ass. Then again, you've proven you like to ignore anything that proves you wrong. They talk about canon being immovable objects. How is it that you can have something canon that can be continually allowed to be hacked away as new information supersedes it?

Oh good lord. Trying reading what is being said. We are talking about the FILM NOVELIZATIONS (ie: the novelizations of the films; the literary versions of the movies), nothing else. The FILM NOVELIZATIONS are canon except where they contradict the movies. All new novels will be canon too but that is not the topic here. The Star Wars team at Del Ray are publishing SW books under Disney and Lucasfilm's auspices and are every bit as authoritative. I can't believe you're actually arguing this.

 

[Bryancd]

I have been listening to Dave on the ForceCast and RebelForce Radio since 2008 and he is a true fan.

 

[Solo4114]

Oh good lord. Trying reading what is being said. We are talking about the FILM NOVELIZATIONS (ie: the novelizations of the films; the literary versions of the movies), nothing else. The FILM NOVELIZATIONS are canon except where they contradict the movies. All new novels will be canon too but that is not the topic here. The Star Wars team at Del Ray are publishing SW books under Disney and Lucasfilm's auspices and are every bit as authoritative. I can't believe you're actually arguing this.

Actually, I can see where there'd be a bit of confusion about the radio dramas and novelizations of the films and whether they're canon still, given what's been published by Disney and LucasFilm about canon.

I can see a reasonable argument that they're canon, except, as you say, where they differ from the films. But that starts us on a slippery slope towards "G-canon, C-Canon, Blah-Canon" like we had before, and I expect that LFL doesn't want to do that. With that in mind, my guess is actually that LFL and Disney -- if asked -- would say that the novelizations and radio dramas are not canon, precisely to avoid this issue.

I really think they want a totally clean slate moving forward, and that it can be argued that their literal statement of "The films, and the Clone Wars cartoons, and that's it" is accurate. From a storytelling perspective, I think they want as open a playing field as possible for both pre-OT and post-OT material.


Practically speaking, they may retroactively imply that this or that product is canonical by doing things like publishing some new video game that references the events of KOTOR 1 (for example). But without an explicit statement that KOTOR 1 = canon, I think the safe bet is "not canon" even when they incorporate various elements from previous works. It's just gonna get too messy if they start cherry-picking this or that prior work to include (although they'll likely cherry-pick concepts, places, etc.).

 

[Mara Jade's Father]

Oh good lord. Trying reading what is being said. We are talking about the FILM NOVELIZATIONS (ie: the novelizations of the films; the literary versions of the movies), nothing else. The FILM NOVELIZATIONS are canon except where they contradict the movies. All new novels will be canon too but that is not the topic here. The Star Wars team at Del Ray are publishing SW books under Disney and Lucasfilm's auspices and are every bit as authoritative. I can't believe you're actually arguing this.

If you read back further, I only claimed "..as of now". Since there are no new books yet released, I have not included them and neither has Disney/LFL, but as the press release goes on to say, there will be books released soon that will be canon. When they released, yes, those books will be canon.

Also, if you insist on pursuing the old novelizations as canon except where contradictions exist. Let me point out that a contradiction is also defined as an inconsistency. Therefore any info in the novel that is not in the movie is an inconsistency and therefore a contradiction. Remember, the true opposite of "hot" is "not hot", therefore the opposite or contradiction of "a said detail" is "not that said detail".

However I still maintain that any and item that is considered canon but can also be superseded later, is a contradiction in itself and cannot truly be canon.

I can't believe you're actually arguing this.

 

[Wolfsburg]

I'm not insisting anything. The old novelizations are canon except where the contradict the movies. This is not hard to comprehend. I'm not making this up. This is fact. Argue with Lucasfilm, Disney and their liaisons with Del Ray if you want to. I can only comment on what they have confirmed.

"The novelizations of the seven films--including The Clone Wars--are canon."

"To clarify, movie novelizations are canon where they align with what is seen on screen in the 6 films and the Clone Wars animated movie."

I don't know how much more clear they can be.

 

[Mara Jade's Father]

Reading that, and the rest of the interview, and watching more of the Clone Wars, I gotta say....this guy Filioni gets it. Sure, it's a cartoon, and therefore not as necessarily "grounded" as the films, but I still feel like he gets what's at the core of Star Wars, and what made it appeal to him as a kid, why it still appeals as an adult, and what will appeal moving forward. The discussion of the Stormtroopers, too, was particularly interesting, and explains a lot. Anyway, I'm actually kinda excited about this, and I've been pretty dour about all things Star Wars (other than the OOT) for a long time.

I have been listening to Dave on the ForceCast and RebelForce Radio since 2008 and he is a true fan.

If you haven't watched the featurettes regarding various episodes, I encourage you to do so. You can find many of them here: Watch Star Wars: The Clone Wars Online | StarWars.com

It's interesting to hear Dave talk about the thought process. There are often details which are subtle that ties in the movies, fills in blanks, and just plain interesting. You really get to understand that he and his team get Star Wars and that they real give a lot of thought about the stories and the details.

 

[Mara Jade's Father]

Some newly posted Rebels details: STAR WARS REBELS Details and Original Trilogy Characters Info

In a summary posted at STAR WARS REBELS Details and Original Trilogy Characters Info

In an interview posted on Collider, Star Wars Rebels executive producer Simon Kinberg revealed the following information on the upcoming animated TV series:

• He wrote the two episodes that will be aired together as the series debut later this Fall.
• He also wrote the season finale as well.
• Season 1 will contain 16 episodes.

While Kinberg did not confirm/deny that Lando Calrissian will be making his rumored appearance in Rebels, he had this to say on the subject of writing dialogue for establishedStar Wars characters that may pop up in the series.

Writing dialogue for any of the legacy characters is as big a thrill as anything I’ve ever had in my life. I said this to [producer Katherine Kennedy] that when I open up a Final Draft document, and I tab over to “Character” and it’s a character from the original films—to be nameless until people see them—but if it’s a character from the original films, just typing in those letters and then that being the recorded name in that name database for that script is as surreal, and perhaps more so, than anything I’ve experienced in my career.
​

 

[Solo4114]

If you haven't watched the featurettes regarding various episodes, I encourage you to do so. You can find many of them here: Watch Star Wars: The Clone Wars Online | StarWars.com

It's interesting to hear Dave talk about the thought process. There are often details which are subtle that ties in the movies, fills in blanks, and just plain interesting. You really get to understand that he and his team get Star Wars and that they real give a lot of thought about the stories and the details.

Neat! I didn't even know that existed!