STAR WARS Rebels new animated series!

[Riceball]

Yeah, Filoni is always mentioning about how much the Jedi robes cost to animate. He said that's why in the season 2 trailer Anakin isn't wearing robes. I wish I knew what went into the animation to understand it more. I am guessing it takes alot more time, and time is money?

It depends greatly on the software being used and the realism that you want. The problems that comes with robes are their size and how they fit, there's more to move, so to speak, around the body and you have more clipping potential (parts passing through where they shouldn't) and there's the physics involved in getting it move realistically. Basically, when you're dealing with 3D animation, the more complicated you make something the more time it's going take to render, and render time equals money.

You need to make constant course adjustments via the navi-computer, slow down, come to a stop. Therefore you need to use the engines to do so. Plus, there is a lot of ship maneuvering in the films and shows. Fuel for engines still seem to be pretty important.

I'm not saying that fuel isn't important but running out of fuel, or even just getting low doesn't mean you're dead in the water going nowhere fast. It just means that you can't do much with your engines but you'll definitely keep going in the same direction that you're heading in, you don't come to a stop like on Earth.

Like I said previously, realistic space travels means that you use your engines to get you up to the speed desired, once there you basically throttle down, otherwise you waste fuel by continuing to accelerate, albeit slowly. Then, depending on how your ship is designed, you may or may not use engine thrust to decelerate and/or to maneuver, those could easily be accomplished via systems not reliant on the engines or even its fuel, much like how modern spacecraft operate and how Trek starships are supposed to using reaction control systems or maneuvering thrusters with their own separate fuel supply.

 

[astroboy]

I could go into all the reasons of why I hated them, but I'd like to avoid the "It's a kids show! Cool your jets!" comments that will inevitably come from it.

I hate that argument.


Mostly because Star wars is now one continuity. It's for everyone. Kids love all of it. I would also have a problem if there started to be "adult" stories in the franchise. The last thing I want is one movie to have an RDM galactica feel to it.

Imagine if one of the harry potter books was dumbed down under the guys of being a "kids" book?

 

[Laspector]

Also...



Nope. His line is "Now... we're a little rushed, so if you'll just get on board, we'll get outta here." But the Falcon in the docking bay and the fighters at the Yavin base all are visible with something resembling fuel lines attached -- and during the preparation to launch against the Death Star, some time is taken showing them being disconnected. So there's that...

--Jonah

Actually, the line is "But--we're a little rushed...."

 

[Riceball]

On the subject of fuel and Star Wars tech, do you think that the engines in Star Wars ships are like the engines on modern ships (nuclear aircraft and subs included) arenothing more than glorified steam engines?

 

[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

It's probably more like direct-conversion. Similar to the EPS systems in Star Trek, where charged plasma energizes the warp coils (or hyperdrive motivator), and taps in the reaction chamber power all the shipboard systems.

Sublight drives are more complicated, from what we see... The TIEs use ion propulsion, but much further advanced than what we have now -- much more powerful, and much more miniaturized. There's still the unresolved matter of whether the wings are solar panels or radiators. Other fighters, and Star Destroyers, seem to have traditional vectored-exhaust type engines, but the reaction type is unclear. They're obviously not air-breathing jets, but those intakes have to serve some purpose on those fighters that have them. Could be cavradyne/gaseous-core nuclear fission, could be fusion, could be something utterly exotic. Then there's the Falcon. That's a whole big long array of some kind of thrust providers, the curvature of which has to serve some purpose, else it's be straight across. Likely it's an array of many small versions of the things we see on X-Wings and such, to provide a greater lift/mass ratio.

If I were more of a dork than I am, I could probably make a good argument for fusion and, more, that the engines burn at different temperatures, so that the blue of the Star Destroyers and the Falcon indicates they're burning much hotter than the red-orange of the Executor and the Rebel fighters... But I'm not, so I won't.

--Jonah

 

[astroboy]

There are so many reasons that I should have hated this episode but there was something about the dialogue. It was the first time that it didn't feel heavy handed. Even Sabine was funny, instead of annoying.

And I actually felt that the characters had a relationship with each other beyond being archetypes.

 

[Halliwax]

There are so many reasons that I should have hated this episode but there was something about the dialogue. It was the first time that it didn't feel heavy handed. Even Sabine was funny, instead of annoying.

And I actually felt that the characters had a relationship with each other beyond being archetypes.

I really enjoyed kanan jumping around, and doing back flips onto the ship. him wearing the trooper helmet and using the lightsaber is awesome!


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[Halliwax]

It depends greatly on the software being used and the realism that you want. The problems that comes with robes are their size and how they fit, there's more to move, so to speak, around the body and you have more clipping potential (parts passing through where they shouldn't) and there's the physics involved in getting it move realistically. Basically, when you're dealing with 3D animation, the more complicated you make something the more time it's going take to render, and render time equals money.



I'm not saying that fuel isn't important but running out of fuel, or even just getting low doesn't mean you're dead in the water going nowhere fast. It just means that you can't do much with your engines but you'll definitely keep going in the same direction that you're heading in, you don't come to a stop like on Earth.

Like I said previously, realistic space travels means that you use your engines to get you up to the speed desired, once there you basically throttle down, otherwise you waste fuel by continuing to accelerate, albeit slowly. Then, depending on how your ship is designed, you may or may not use engine thrust to decelerate and/or to maneuver, those could easily be accomplished via systems not reliant on the engines or even its fuel, much like how modern spacecraft operate and how Trek starships are supposed to using reaction control systems or maneuvering thrusters with their own separate fuel supply.

thanks for the examples, I don't know a thing about 3D animation. I would love to learn 3D cad so I can start 3D printing.

I never really thought about like you said with the robes and how it can bump into things and change.

it makes you think really how expensive it really is on a movie level. like what is the rebels budget per episode for animation compared to say episode 7? maybe e7 is a bad example with so many practical effects? maybe avenger's 2 is a better example?


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[astroboy]

thanks for the examples, I don't know a thing about 3D animation. I would love to learn 3D cad so I can start 3D printing.

I never really thought about like you said with the robes and how it can bump into things and change.

it makes you think really how expensive it really is on a movie level. like what is the rebels budget per episode for animation compared to say episode 7? maybe e7 is a bad example with so many practical effects? maybe avenger's 2 is a better example?


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It is obviously way cheaper than the clone wars was. I heard they were about $2 million per episode

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[Mara Jade's Father]

I hate that argument.


Mostly because Star wars is now one continuity. It's for everyone. Kids love all of it. I would also have a problem if there started to be "adult" stories in the franchise. The last thing I want is one movie to have an RDM galactica feel to it.

Imagine if one of the harry potter books was dumbed down under the guys of being a "kids" book?

Agreed.

I also look at it this way. A New Hope was told as a movie, a novel, a read along LP, a golden book, etc... It was told in many ways to reach specific and/or multiple audiences. Just because the nature of the storytelling is different, it does not negate or downplay the events, people, and story being told. So I argue you could take any episode (or group) and turn them into a a live action movie in the same tone of a Star Wars movie.

But I honestly believe that Rebels is made to cater to the entertainment of adults as well as kids. I don't think they would do a story and say, adults will hate this but who cares, it's for kids.

 

[Halliwax]

It is obviously way cheaper than the clone wars was. I heard they were about $2 million per episode

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wow! really!? i would figure the other way around, rebels seems to be a different animation style, seems like it has little more detail and they can move things faster. 2 million a episode is crazy isn't it..

 

[astroboy]

wow! really!? i would figure the other way around, rebels seems to be a different animation style, seems like it has little more detail and they can move things faster. 2 million a episode is crazy isn't it..

Look at it this way. How many vehicles, planets, characters and costumes were in the clone wars.

Whereas most of the first season of rebels took place on Lothal.

How many stormtrooper variants have we seen? Hardly anything. Compare that to the clones. They even had character!

I was watching a clone wars episode that spanned 6 planets. A couple of them were only for that episode!

wow! really!? i would figure the other way around, rebels seems to be a different animation style, seems like it has little more detail and they can move things faster. 2 million a episode is crazy isn't it..

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[Halliwax]

Look at it this way. How many vehicles, planets, characters and costumes were in the clone wars.

Whereas most of the first season of rebels took place on Lothal.

How many stormtrooper variants have we seen? Hardly anything. Compare that to the clones. They even had character!

I was watching a clone wars episode that spanned 6 planets. A couple of them were only for that episode!



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yes that totally makes sense, i really never thought of that! they have spent a long time on lothal

 

[astroboy]

yes that totally makes sense, i really never thought of that! they have spent a long time on lothal

It bugged me on this last episode that they were using tie fighters. That was a total cheap out. The clone wars would have definitely created new vehicle designs for these gas miners.

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[Halliwax]

It bugged me on this last episode that they were using tie fighters. That was a total cheap out. The clone wars would have definitely created new vehicle designs for these gas miners.

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yes! very clever, paint the ties, chop the wings! ahhh!! cheap skate move lol I'm going to look out for more things like that, great observation!

 

[Bryancd]

wow! really!? i would figure the other way around, rebels seems to be a different animation style, seems like it has little more detail and they can move things faster. 2 million a episode is crazy isn't it..

Yeah, it was entirely GL's call on budget. Disney is going to be much more frugal for a show with limited commercial reach. And even though kids are the primary audience, I don't think Dave and his crew make the show to only have appeal to kids, if they did the entire tone of the show would be very different. The stories and characters are more inclusive of all ages IMO, although on various other social media sites the complaints about Rebels being too directed towards kids are growing with each episode this season.

 

[Mara Jade's Father]

It bugged me on this last episode that they were using tie fighters. That was a total cheap out. The clone wars would have definitely created new vehicle designs for these gas miners.

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That's just hater talk.

 

[astroboy]

That's just hater talk.

It's not being a hater when something fails to live up to a precedent.

I'm right about the clone wars. They created hundreds of designs that all had a specific purpose. Rebels just recycles as much as possible.

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[Mara Jade's Father]

It's not being a hater when something fails to live up to a precedent.

I'm right about the clone wars. They created hundreds of designs that all had a specific purpose. Rebels just recycles as much as possible.

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If they wanted to really save, they would have left the fighters unmodified and same paint. It takes man-hours and money to do what they did.

I'm sorry you're still crying over the end of Clone Wars but top bashing Rebels because you can't deal with the loss.

 

[Mara Jade's Father]

Love the latest clip of the upcoming episode. I really want to know more about Kanan and Hera's relationship. There are the instances and flirtations that suggest that there is something there. However it is hard to determine if it is simply just flirting or if there is a deeper relationship that is being kept from the audience. The latest clip suggests that maybe it's not just the audience in the dark but maybe the Ghost crew as well.