NakedMoleRat
Legendary Member
After all of these well thought out and perfectly pontificated theorems, could we get back to big issue?
Obi Wan sucks!
YES?
NO?
Obi Wan sucks!
YES?
NO?
Star Wars Obi-Wan Kenobi (tv series)
- Thread starter ghostryder
- Start date
Master Boda
Sr Member
Unless thing’s have changed that much in SW there is no such thing as “what if”,it is all the will of the Force.
Master Boda
Sr Member
Dude that is nun of our business,I’m sure Jedi had a don’t ask don’t tell policy.
CopperRevan
Master Member
I want to know how R2d2 got back up in space to be jettisoned on an escape pod back to Tatooinne in ANH when he's been sitting beneath the sand in Kenobi's doorway this whole time...only his little sensor comes up every now and then...lol, jk
NakedMoleRat
Legendary Member
That’s RU Stu-ped. He’s a repurposed astrometric droid, decommissioned after the Clone Wars. He’s basically just a dome at this point.
CopperRevan
Master Member
Darn...i'm wrong again
When it comes to Kenobi (or any Jedi for that matter) cutting themselves off from the Force, I think that's a very contradictory idea when you think about it. The Force is generated by all living things which means to cut oneself off from that would mean you're dead. Even non-Jedi are generating the Force just by existing. It's a very different thing if a Jedi chooses to not use their ability to tap into the Force. I can buy into the idea that Kenobi might be a bit rusty as a concept, but I also think the fact that his abilities have become second nature would be at play too. Think about it, up until the end of ROTS Kenobi literally spent his entire life mastering and using the Force. It's instinct, he likely doesn't have to think twice about it. So to suppress that would take more effort than to just use it by that point in his life. Then again when you consider his current circumstances he would have to refrain in order to survive.
I don't see Yoda or Obi-Wan as manipulative. I think of them as flawed, but it was always Luke's choice to leave Tatooine. It was Luke's choice to join the Rebellion. Yoda even hesitated to train Luke in Empire because of Luke's anger and Yoda didn't want another Vader. Luke chose to get involved because the circumstance of his life and his desire to be more than a moisture farmer were what led him off the planet, two factors that neither Kenobi or Yoda had any control over. Obi-Wan may have wanted Luke to redeem him by killing Vader, but ultimately it was always Luke's choice. Do we really think that little of Luke that we was so easily manipulted? If Obi-Wan were truly trying to manipulate Luke he would have raised the boy himself instead. He wanted what was best for Luke he so brought him to be raised by Owen and Beru.
I don't see Yoda or Obi-Wan as manipulative. I think of them as flawed, but it was always Luke's choice to leave Tatooine. It was Luke's choice to join the Rebellion. Yoda even hesitated to train Luke in Empire because of Luke's anger and Yoda didn't want another Vader. Luke chose to get involved because the circumstance of his life and his desire to be more than a moisture farmer were what led him off the planet, two factors that neither Kenobi or Yoda had any control over. Obi-Wan may have wanted Luke to redeem him by killing Vader, but ultimately it was always Luke's choice. Do we really think that little of Luke that we was so easily manipulted? If Obi-Wan were truly trying to manipulate Luke he would have raised the boy himself instead. He wanted what was best for Luke he so brought him to be raised by Owen and Beru.
CopperRevan
Master Member
Agreed...Obviously to hide Luke was what was best for him and train him in the light side of the force when ready(when he was ready to chose)"You must do what you feel is right, of course". Yoda wasn't rusty at all. Unless we get into the midichlorian issue or that human Jedi are more likely to get "rusty" but i'm with you.
CopperRevan
Master Member
...coupled with the fact that Kenobi's hand to hand combat didn't look rusty(to Psab Keel's point, he instinctively knew how to fight somehow). If he was fighting all the time and drawing attention to himself that way, it would be just as bad.
CopperRevan
Master Member
If i'm remembering right, from Rebels to the Kenobi show....Obi-wan had white hair, rode on a dewback, found a new ride and discovered some Just For Men and possible met Filoni and Favreau and used some de-aging tech on him just in time to get old and rusty...sigh, well...atleast he had enough force power to kill Maul before the Inquisitors came a-huntin'. My timeline could be off, so please forgive me if i'm not remembering right.
I see him struggling with that self-belief, given his massive sense of failure.
Depressingly, the EU made it out to be the/an Imperial Academy. That's one thing I hope never makes it back in. Biggs' dialogue in the Anchorhead scene is that he's the newly-minted second mate of the freighter Rand Ecliptic, and that he's going to jump ship and try to hook up with the Rebellion rather than wait to be drafted into Imperial service. Best guess has been that it's an Outer Rim Territories merchantmarine academy.
And even after you're dead, in some circumstances. Even the trick Jacen learned in the novels wasn't cutting himself off, but disappearing to a Force-wielder's senses by immersing himself in the Force. The argument for years as to "why Dagobah" and "why right next to a Dark Side nexus" for Yoda was so he could hide by, again, disappearing into the surrounding ambient "Force noise". Cutting off from the Force I keep hoping will turn out to be a sloppy shorthand for what's actually going on, but I don't think so. Luke didn't feel the Hosnian System blow up, the extinguishing of the Ilum star, or Han's death. I can't think of how one would actively blind hemselves to sensing things through the Force... But. I did just see a news piece about a man with Alzheimer's who forgot he was blind and has had some of his sight return. "Hysterical blindness" is a recognized thing, after all...
CopperRevan
Master Member
great points, never thought of that. The only push back i'd give to your first response is that , didn't Yoda experience the same sense of failure? Yet it didn't affect his ability to use the force.
NakedMoleRat
Legendary Member
To be fa
To be fair, that was part of the EU and may not be canon.
Yoda has had centuries more to learn to not get attached to people -- especially, perhaps, people of a different species. Obi-Wan has struggled with attachment issues, himself. He was ready to leave the Order to be with Satine and she wouldn't let him throw away his future like that. He loved Anakin like a brother. Yoda... did not.
CopperRevan
Master Member
makes sense...i thought also that Yoda carries the failure in private amongst "creatures" while Obi-wan has to carry it among "people" along with trying to avoid capture...along with protecting Luke...now throw in Leia. Man, he got the raw end of that deal didn't he? lol.
CopperRevan
Master Member
Yoda:" I must go wastin away again in margaritaville...Obi, you must go and avoid death, capture and take up baby sitting at the same time."
Obi-Wan: "You must do what you feel is right, of course"
Obi-Wan: "You must do what you feel is right, of course"
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Master Boda
Sr Member
Maybe I have on rose colored glasses as I see a “trend” with disney.Han Solo is now a POS who walked out on his family,Lando now loves droids,Luke ran off to sulk about his failure,Obi-wan now doubts himself,Poe is fool compared to that one chic who’s awesome move is to kamakazi a ship.Its almost as if the males are all eunuch.
I dont see the OT characters how they are being portrayed.I have spent countless hours to SW watching the movies,reading books and playing games. I have never thought of the characters how they are now being portrayed.
Oh well four more episodes to see what goes right/wrong.
I dont see the OT characters how they are being portrayed.I have spent countless hours to SW watching the movies,reading books and playing games. I have never thought of the characters how they are now being portrayed.
Oh well four more episodes to see what goes right/wrong.
CopperRevan
Master Member
You see clearly, my friend...This is what they mean when they want you to be "open-minded" and "enlightened" to new ideas etc. They can't think of their own ideas, they have to "re-define" it for us. Luke isn't really Luke...Han isn't really Han and so forth. "They've evolved" they say...by essentially, de-evolving their character. To be fair, it's not just Disney...it seems to have permeated throughout many avenues. You are not alone in what you see, trust me.
To Psab Keel's point about, do we think so little of Luke that he could be manipulated... No, I don't think less of him, but as an 18 year old farmboy, YES, he was manipulated his entire life. Owen did it to keep him on the farm, Obi & Yoda did it for a means to their ends, Han recognized his naivety when joking with him about whether Leia would hook up with a guy like him, the Palpatine & Vader tried to manipulate him emotionally to give in to his anger, with Vader succeeding for a bit. To me, when Luke threw down his saber & told Palpatine that he was a Jedi, like his father before him, that was the one moment he took charge of his own agency & future, & even if he died, it was HIS choice.
So no, I don't think it's making Luke a lesser man by recognizing where he started to appreciate where he ended up... The hero he was meant to be.
So no, I don't think it's making Luke a lesser man by recognizing where he started to appreciate where he ended up... The hero he was meant to be.
CopperRevan
Master Member
Agreed...the Hero he was meant to be in 1983...not the one that allowed himself to be further manipulated by his failures and fears in that ...other film
