Star Wars Obi-Wan Kenobi (tv series)

Couldn't agree more. That's why Mando s1 is my favorite, because it doesn't rely on preexisting characters to continue the plot. Though to be fair, S1 Ep 8 alluded to a greater plot that would definitely have existing characters, but the execution of it felt too much like character of the week
Well, considering Vader blames Obi-Wan for the death of Padme and for kicking his butt on mustfar and sticking him in that suit for life and blames him for holding him back, i'd expect he'd have the entire Imperial military on a never ending hunt for him. It's not unfathomable to think the need could arise for him to need help from those he knew in the past. Not saying they do or don't go there, but it'd make sense.

As for BoBF, i'm not sure what the hell they were thinking there. The first 2 were fine, then they just lost all track. Hopefully when we look back this the exception.
 
I definitely won’t argue that Filoni is over-connecting things in these live action shows, I just don’t like seeing the animation written off as being devoid of depth when some of the stories they tell are arguably deeper than what we’ve seen on both Mando and BOBF.
 
Of course - and I hope we wil meet Cad Bane again. His introduction in live-action could mean that he will be used more often than once. Cobb, the Armorer and Viszla all came back, why not him. Maybe he will be the main villain which would be awesome. BTW, I've become pretty pleased with his look now. Like others said it took a while to adjust from the comic world to the "real" life but his look in Boba ep 7 did not "irritate" me any longer.
I hope we see him again, I think he survived that stab
 
INDEED! Just imagine we are seeing a Jedi hunter doing his or better: HER work...

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See this stuff works for me in comics and the cartoon show… video games… but I don’t know if I want to see this in live action… I honestly don’t like the inquisitors.. I liked the idea of vader slaughtering each Jedi.. it make it more personal for him
 
I definitely won’t argue that Filoni is over-connecting things in these live action shows, I just don’t like seeing the animation written off as being devoid of depth when some of the stories they tell are arguably deeper than what we’ve seen on both Mando and BOBF.
I can agree to this
 
I love animation but Clone Wars is it's own story. They need to either let it be over or double down and make a live action version of it. I think the main objection to Clone Wars characters appearing isn't their validity as a character so much as them having no logical place in the stories being told if only by virtue of their place in the time-line, or the circumstances that place them in the story, which often feel unconnected to what's happening.

That's the really sad part too. They create a whole show around one character and the fans tend to respond to everyone else who shows up, so in Fetts own show what do the fans care about? Luke, Ashoka, Grogu, Mando, Cobb Vanth, Black Chewbacca, Max Rebo, and so on and so on. So the excuse that fans demand more Luke, for example, and then whine when he shows up is missing the point entirely. Tell a good Boba Fett story well enough and Luke has no NEED to show up at all because Fett is the main attraction, not the guest of the week.

When you make your protagonist so unappealing that the guest stars are the only reason your viewers are tuning in then you know it's nothing more than marketing, or a failure to trust that your original creations have any credibility as a story. Or in Fett's case since he was George's creation, they just couldn't come up with a good story to use him in, so it fell to the cameos to try and elevate the plot with mixed results. Besides Fett died in ROTJ anyway so bringing him back was already a huge gamble to base an entire series on.

More and more it's become apparent that these shows and movies are rushed and half planned, if at all, and I wonder why that is given the resources and talent involved. There are some truly talented people working on these things and it's such a shame that the end product is consistently lackluster. It all boils down to the blank page. Everything hinges on it.

As for Obi-Wan it's necessary for some big players to take part in the story but there's a lot riding on this show given that it's directly tied to the main saga. Unlike Fett or Mando which had the advantage of not having to always reference it. I would hope that they recognize the opportunity they have to enrich the existing material rather than having creatives involved who are more concerned with leaving their own mark on it and have an annoying tendency to change things just for the sake of change rather than in service to the story alone.

I would love nothing more than to be proven wrong and to fall absolutely in love with this show, but time and experience has taught me to temper my hopes with caution. I don't want to hear anyone whine about how fans expect too much. That time is over. You should expect more if you pay for content.
 
I love animation but Clone Wars is it's own story. They need to either let it be over or double down and make a live action version of it. I think the main objection to Clone Wars characters appearing isn't their validity as a character so much as them having no logical place in the stories being told if only by virtue of their place in the time-line, or the circumstances that place them in the story, which often feel unconnected to what's happening.

That's the really sad part too. They create a whole show around one character and the fans tend to respond to everyone else who shows up, so in Fetts own show what do the fans care about? Luke, Ashoka, Grogu, Mando, Cobb Vanth, Black Chewbacca, Max Rebo, and so on and so on. So the excuse that fans demand more Luke, for example, and then whine when he shows up is missing the point entirely. Tell a good Boba Fett story well enough and Luke has no NEED to show up at all because Fett is the main attraction, not the guest of the week.

When you make your protagonist so unappealing that the guest stars are the only reason your viewers are tuning in then you know it's nothing more than marketing, or a failure to trust that your original creations have any credibility as a story. Or in Fett's case since he was George's creation, they just couldn't come up with a good story to use him in, so it fell to the cameos to try and elevate the plot with mixed results. Besides Fett died in ROTJ anyway so bringing him back was already a huge gamble to base an entire series on.

More and more it's become apparent that these shows and movies are rushed and half planned, if at all, and I wonder why that is given the resources and talent involved. There are some truly talented people working on these things and it's such a shame that the end product is consistently lackluster. It all boils down to the blank page. Everything hinges on it.

As for Obi-Wan it's necessary for some big players to take part in the story but there's a lot riding on this show given that it's directly tied to the main saga. Unlike Fett or Mando which had the advantage of not having to always reference it. I would hope that they recognize the opportunity they have to enrich the existing material rather than having creatives involved who are more concerned with leaving their own mark on it and have an annoying tendency to change things just for the sake of change rather than in service to the story alone.

I would love nothing more than to be proven wrong and to fall absolutely in love with this show, but time and experience has taught me to temper my hopes with caution. I don't want to hear anyone whine about how fans expect too much. That time is over. You should expect more if you pay for content.
Can’t agree more. I feel the exact same way.. don’t all shoot at once, I don’t have any passion for mando.. I watch the show for all the Easter eggs or other characters introduced in it

That’s primarily why I continue to watch the series stuff.. I want to see old characters introduced
 
Can’t agree more. I feel the exact same way.. don’t all shoot at once, I don’t have any passion for mando.. I watch the show for all the Easter eggs or other characters introduced in it

That’s primarily why I continue to watch the series stuff.. I want to see old characters introduced
Just give me a Series about Han Solo at Stars End!...
 
A concept being deep, meaningful, poignant, or interesting is not the same thing as execution meeting that. You could argue that the PT is “deep and more meaningful than the OT”, because it tries to acknowledge more of the gray area and the fall of a protagonist/society, but that doesn’t make the prequels deep or good.

Mostly, I’m just tired of getting “the cartoons are so great they’re my favorite SW and maybe my favorite media of all time” thrown in my face, and then people acting like I’m a monster or screaming “you just don’t like it because it’s for kids and George Lucas said twenty years after he made SW that SW is for 12 year olds” because I have reasonable qualms and criticisms of those shows from both writing and execution standpoints. Or acting like I’m some film snob who hates all animation, whereas one of the reasons I don’t like these cartoons is because I’m such a big fan of animation. I have nothing against people enjoying the cartoons, enjoy what you want and taste is subjective and all that—what I don’t like is A: people acting like they’re so untouchable and amazing and not hearing out honest criticism of those shows, and B: getting subpar reminders of their existence in shows I actually do want to watch.I’ve said before in both the Mando and Boba Fett threads—if they manage to incorporate characters or concepts from the shows without requiring me to watch them or in a way that executes them better, I’m fine with it. So far they’ve managed that with precious few things. I liked Cad Bane (though an underwhelming use of the character), I like the Darksaber in Din’s hands alone, and I think someone mentioned the big Imperial freighter in The Heiress was originally from the cartoons, but I liked the translation of it into live-action. That’s been pretty much it, really. Everything else that’s been included has either been at the level of the cartoons or worse, IMO. Sometimes the inclusion isn’t even a bad idea, it’s just handled poorly. I don’t mind Mando meeting Bo-Katan and the other Mandalorians—it serves as a wake-up call that he’s sort of in a cult. But they come off as so cartoonish, what with the VA playing the character and slapping a goofy red wig on her, and then just making the overall episode “back-door pilot of the week”.

And some concepts are just flat out stupid. No redemption whatsoever. Helicopter lightsabers fall into that category. That is so inane.

Overall, as much as I like the idea of Kenobi, and like Deborah Chow’s episode of Mando, and liking Evan McGregor a lot, I don’t think this show will manage to work, at least for me, because they’ve tied so much into the Clone Wars, and because those shows have such a big following. I just don’t see how they’ll have the guts to interpret stuff from the PT and from the cartoons satisfactorily enough for me that wouldn’t also piss off all the Filoni fans, like everyone complaining about Cad Bane’s look being “ruined” in TBOBF.

I always hope to foster conversation and not anger, resentment, or bad feelings, so take all of this with a grain of salt. The forums here (typically) manage to be much more adult and cool-headed about these things than other online outlets, and I appreciate that.
 
A concept being deep, meaningful, poignant, or interesting is not the same thing as execution meeting that. You could argue that the PT is “deep and more meaningful than the OT”, because it tries to acknowledge more of the gray area and the fall of a protagonist/society, but that doesn’t make the prequels deep or good.

Mostly, I’m just tired of getting “the cartoons are so great they’re my favorite SW and maybe my favorite media of all time” thrown in my face, and then people acting like I’m a monster or screaming “you just don’t like it because it’s for kids and George Lucas said twenty years after he made SW that SW is for 12 year olds” because I have reasonable qualms and criticisms of those shows from both writing and execution standpoints. Or acting like I’m some film snob who hates all animation, whereas one of the reasons I don’t like these cartoons is because I’m such a big fan of animation. I have nothing against people enjoying the cartoons, enjoy what you want and taste is subjective and all that—what I don’t like is A: people acting like they’re so untouchable and amazing and not hearing out honest criticism of those shows, and B: getting subpar reminders of their existence in shows I actually do want to watch.I’ve said before in both the Mando and Boba Fett threads—if they manage to incorporate characters or concepts from the shows without requiring me to watch them or in a way that executes them better, I’m fine with it. So far they’ve managed that with precious few things. I liked Cad Bane (though an underwhelming use of the character), I like the Darksaber in Din’s hands alone, and I think someone mentioned the big Imperial freighter in The Heiress was originally from the cartoons, but I liked the translation of it into live-action. That’s been pretty much it, really. Everything else that’s been included has either been at the level of the cartoons or worse, IMO. Sometimes the inclusion isn’t even a bad idea, it’s just handled poorly. I don’t mind Mando meeting Bo-Katan and the other Mandalorians—it serves as a wake-up call that he’s sort of in a cult. But they come off as so cartoonish, what with the VA playing the character and slapping a goofy red wig on her, and then just making the overall episode “back-door pilot of the week”.

And some concepts are just flat out stupid. No redemption whatsoever. Helicopter lightsabers fall into that category. That is so inane.



I always hope to foster conversation and not anger, resentment, or bad feelings, so take all of this with a grain of salt. The forums here (typically) manage to be much more adult and cool-headed about these things than other online outlets, and I appreciate that.
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And I’m one of the guys that absolutely loves what TCW and Rebels became. I don’t mind characters showing up if it adds to the story. Bo-Katan and a Visla showing up add to the story. Ahsoka has yet to do so. Which is sad, because her arc in TCW and Rebels is really good, but they haven’t justified her appearance yet.

As much as I don’t like the inquisitors, their appearance makes sense. But if they make sense, Qui-Gon makes even more sense.

And about the live action vs animation. It occurred to me the other day that if BoBF 1.6 had been an animated episode of Rebels or TCW it would have been one of the worst episodes of those show. The writing was lackluster, no one did anything. But because we have gotten desensitized to terrible (read: pointless/plotless) episodes that episode came across as amazing.

Anyway, I digress. I agree with most of what’s been said, and I love that I’m among fans who think critically, but also are excited by new Star Wars.
 
And I’m one of the guys that absolutely loves what TCW and Rebels became. I don’t mind characters showing up if it adds to the story. Bo-Katan and a Visla showing up add to the story. Ahsoka has yet to do so. Which is sad, because her arc in TCW and Rebels is really good, but they haven’t justified her appearance yet.

As much as I don’t like the inquisitors, their appearance makes sense. But if they make sense, Qui-Gon makes even more sense.

And about the live action vs animation. It occurred to me the other day that if BoBF 1.6 had been an animated episode of Rebels or TCW it would have been one of the worst episodes of those show. The writing was lackluster, no one did anything. But because we have gotten desensitized to terrible (read: pointless/plotless) episodes that episode came across as amazing.

Anyway, I digress. I agree with most of what’s been said, and I love that I’m among fans who think critically, but also are excited by new Star Wars.
I'm happy with whoever pops up as long as they treat the audience a decent story that at least explains who they are...not everyone has absorbed every comic, book or leaflet on the matter..
 
I love animation but Clone Wars is it's own story. They need to either let it be over or double down and make a live action version of it. I think the main objection to Clone Wars characters appearing isn't their validity as a character so much as them having no logical place in the stories being told if only by virtue of their place in the time-line, or the circumstances that place them in the story, which often feel unconnected to what's happening.

That's the really sad part too. They create a whole show around one character and the fans tend to respond to everyone else who shows up, so in Fetts own show what do the fans care about? Luke, Ashoka, Grogu, Mando, Cobb Vanth, Black Chewbacca, Max Rebo, and so on and so on. So the excuse that fans demand more Luke, for example, and then whine when he shows up is missing the point entirely. Tell a good Boba Fett story well enough and Luke has no NEED to show up at all because Fett is the main attraction, not the guest of the week.

When you make your protagonist so unappealing that the guest stars are the only reason your viewers are tuning in then you know it's nothing more than marketing, or a failure to trust that your original creations have any credibility as a story. Or in Fett's case since he was George's creation, they just couldn't come up with a good story to use him in, so it fell to the cameos to try and elevate the plot with mixed results. Besides Fett died in ROTJ anyway so bringing him back was already a huge gamble to base an entire series on.

More and more it's become apparent that these shows and movies are rushed and half planned, if at all, and I wonder why that is given the resources and talent involved. There are some truly talented people working on these things and it's such a shame that the end product is consistently lackluster. It all boils down to the blank page. Everything hinges on it.

As for Obi-Wan it's necessary for some big players to take part in the story but there's a lot riding on this show given that it's directly tied to the main saga. Unlike Fett or Mando which had the advantage of not having to always reference it. I would hope that they recognize the opportunity they have to enrich the existing material rather than having creatives involved who are more concerned with leaving their own mark on it and have an annoying tendency to change things just for the sake of change rather than in service to the story alone.

I would love nothing more than to be proven wrong and to fall absolutely in love with this show, but time and experience has taught me to temper my hopes with caution. I don't want to hear anyone whine about how fans expect too much. That time is over. You should expect more if you pay for content.

Well, i think that problem is much more with BoBF than a general problem. I think there's a reason for it, but we'll never know for sure. I think as some surmised, BoBF wasn't something planned, it was something to do when there was the risk of disruption with Mando. They came up with this route and then were like 'Ok, so, uh....what's the story?' Then things got resolved and they threw some of that in there. All the added characters people have issue with were exclusively due to bring Mando back in. They don't do that, no of those characters would show up.

As for Asohka showing up on Mando....well, that's TV. It's called a back door pilot which is exactly how it came off. I'm more surprised they got her to sit through hours of make up for 3-4 lines in BoB unless they're already filming that show. For the same reason, i expect Andor to show up in Obi-Wan. It wouldn't be as big a deal if these were 13 episode or more runs, but at 6-8 eps they tend to be more obvious.
 
It wouldn't be as big a deal if these were 13 episode or more runs, but at 6-8 eps they tend to be more obvious.
This. Even with the same exact episodes we got, not writing them any more subtly about being back-door pilots and I wouldn’t mind as long as there were more episodes. As it stands, almost every episode in S2 is a back-door pilot.
 
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