Star Wars Obi-Wan Kenobi (tv series)

[CopperRevan]

This confirms what I said. This isn't selfish. It's the same thing George did with PT and the CW cartoons. Expanding the story. Somehow when George does it, it's okay, but Disney is the bad guy?


Doesn't line up with what? That Leia never meet Kenobi? That's not explicitly stated, and I can find arguments about if they had or hadn't as far back as 2018 with a quick search. This is to my point, it's fans creating their own narratives, and when they are challenged the reaction is understandably negative.

I'm not giving George a pass on the prequels...I'm talking about the OT vs Kenobi which is in the context of your original comparison. If we are talking PT then Kenobi doesn't even jive with that. Tell me...if the OT was it...would we even be having this discussion? You would have your imaginations and so would we all. I think we've established that yes George decided to keep it going. I think it was a bad idea for the original story but it was a good idea for business. I don't want to beat a dead horse. Disney has had EVERYTHING HANDED TO THEM..the least they can do is MOVE ON. Nope...gotta try to connect dots that don't need connection. Bad idea for the original story, but good idea for business. To try to connect dots(infuse their vision in replacement of our imaginations) of course isn't going to line up...because its ONE vision against MILLIONS of fans imaginations. Again...I ask, do you agree with their vision? You honestly think its plausible to take ANH completely out of context? Like the ST did with ROTJ and somehow, undercut Vaders/Luke whole redemption arc? The Emperors alive? I don't mind creativity but again, don't cut off the nose to spite the face...or cut off your feet and try to stand. Its not having your imaginations challenged that is upsetting...it's unraveling something that was complete that I'm upset with.

 

[NeoRutty]

Mike and Rich like it

Hey! They actually stopped and chatted about EXACTLY what I was complaining about... Around 9:30 in....

"There's a horribly directed scene in Vader vs. Obi where we see Vader's POV... looking at Ben, who turns and runs screen right. We then cut to Vaders face... and then cut back to a background that looks almost identical to the last shot - which looks like it would be Vader's POV again... where Ben runs out from screen right...

I was like "did he forget something?"... then realized it's a different location.

That's BAD direction and editing..."

Cuz Mike and Jay are editors first!

Me and Mike would be besties.

 

[Riceball]

Lucas is definitely more of an idea guy and that collaboration is where he shined the most. Between the OT and the PT and he seemed to become much more full of himself from the massive success of SW. There really is something to be said for the power of the starving artist to generate amazing content within forced limitations as well. I wish he had recognized the importance of other's input and limitations for the PT, could've been so much better. I wanted Anakin's story to be amazing (and was quite disappointed with it) because it was one of my favorite things to imagine when I was a kid. I remember that feeling sitting in the theater waiting for the TPM to start like it was yesterday. I thought my chest was going to explode from excitement.

Agreed, but I wonder if it wasn't so much arrogance or overconfidence on Lucas's part so much as pretty much everybody working for him by the time the Prequels went into pre-production were so in awe of Lucas that nobody thought to question him on any of his decisions or push back very hard. So, instead of collaborating with anybody or listening to anybody, he was free to do whatever he wanted because he was basically in an echo chamber. I also think that by the time of the Prequels Lucas was more interested in filmmaking from a technical standpoint and wasn't focused on making a good film as much as on being able to push the limits of filmmaking technology.

 

[CopperRevan]

I think i may have heard that Lucas got pushback from Rick McCallum but I may be wrong.

 

[Joek3rr]

I'm not giving George a pass on the prequels...I'm talking about the OT vs Kenobi which is in the context of your original comparison. If we are talking PT then Kenobi doesn't even jive with that. Tell me...if the OT was it...would we even be having this discussion? You would have your imaginations and so would we all. I think we've established that yes George decided to keep it going. I think it was a bad idea for the original story but it was a good idea for business. I don't want to beat a dead horse. Disney has had EVERYTHING HANDED TO THEM..the least they can do is MOVE ON. Nope...gotta try to connect dots that don't need connection. Bad idea for the original story, but good idea for business. To try to connect dots(infuse their vision in replacement of our imaginations) of course isn't going to line up...because its ONE vision against MILLIONS of fans imaginations. Again...I ask, do you agree with their vision? You honestly think its plausible to take ANH completely out of context? Like the ST did with ROTJ and somehow, undercut Vaders/Luke whole redemption arc? The Emperors alive? I don't mind creativity but again, don't cut off the nose to spite the face...or cut off your feet and try to stand. Its not having your imaginations challenged that is upsetting...it's unraveling something that was complete that I'm upset with.

Playing devil's advocate... That's their job. They're replacing the EU with a New-EU. That's what the EU did. Filling the gaps. Tellings us what our heroes were up to between films. When The Clone Wars went completely divergent from the EU, which would later force Lucasfilm to do the whole Canon reset. So now they're slowly filling those gaps back up. Yes they're also going to go off and tell new stories with new characters, like Rebels, Mando, Fallen Order, High Republic, etc. But they're going to tell stories with the Legacy characters as well, same as the EU.

Why? Money. And some fans want to see it all filled. I for one, when I was a kid, once I got used to the idea of the EU was exhilarated to have those gaps filled in. Seeing Luke the Jedi Outcast and Jedi Academy was amazing! Seeing Leia in The Force Unleashed. Wow! Seeing what happened in The Clone Wars with Obi-Wan and Anakin! I wanted those gaps filled in.

Now, that I'm older, though. Yeah I don't need all the gaps filled in. But I understand there will be the younger generation behind us, that will want those gaps filled. Some kid is going get excited reading though the next chronological timeline book finding out what happens to his favorite character of Obi-Wan or Luke or whoever.

 

[Krieger]

I for one, didnt mind the approach of filling in some of the 'OT timeline' - even if in 1977, the timeline was suggested, but never really defined.

That said, sooner or later, the company will have to create completely new content, for many of the reasons you all posted. I am for that as well, and its needed if they want to move this forward. Question is when. and it doesnt require a movie to make it happen.

 

[Psab keel]

Hey! They actually stopped and chatted about EXACTLY what I was complaining about... Around 9:30 in....

"There's a horribly directed scene in Vader vs. Obi where we see Vader's POV... looking at Ben, who turns and runs screen right. We then cut to Vaders face... and then cut back to a background that looks almost identical to the last shot - which looks like it would be Vader's POV again... where Ben runs out from screen right...

I was like "did he forget something?"... then realized it's a different location.

That's BAD direction and editing..."

Cuz Mike and Jay are editors first!

Me and Mike would be besties.

I was honestly really surprised that they even watched it. Then again by their own admission they said that after Picard and so much other stuff that their expectations were so low that even mediocre would do. I think the Wheel of the Worst finally broke them! With the kinds of movies they watch on that thing, I'm sure this feels like Citizen Kane.

It does seem that Lucasfilm is beginning to recognize the diminishing returns on legacy characters. I mean the entire lives of these characters has been documented. There's little else that they could really add. Their stories are over. If that Vanity Fair article was any indication, hopefully they'll move on to something truly fresh and new. Otherwise this franchise will die.

 

[Krieger]

I was honestly really surprised that they even watched it. Then again by their own admission they said that after Picard and so much other stuff that their expectations were so low that even mediocre would do. I think the Wheel of the Worst finally broke them! With the kinds of movies they watch on that thing, I'm sure this feels like Citizen Kane.

It does seem that Lucasfilm is beginning to recognize the diminishing returns on legacy characters. I mean the entire lives of these characters has been documented. There's little else that they could really add. Their stories are over. If that Vanity Fair article was any indication, hopefully they'll move on to something truly fresh and new. Otherwise this franchise will die.

Absolutely agree. just a thought.

Is it possible to have a 'legendary' character, like Obi Wan, Luke, Vader, continue in some way, that doesn't stop other, new stories and characters in the process? We do have Bond, Ryan, Hunt, etc though the generations. Seems the company somehow made that work with variants on grimm's fairy tales, not saying there is a lot of meat on the bone for Star Wars fans, but its been done for other stories, no?

i am not asking for me of course although it would be cool to make the mandolorian appear when you least expect him, like a Marvel team-up

 

[ScourgiousJinx]

I get the impression that some of us are mad this even exists, and I don't get it at all. It's more Star Wars. "Well we didn't need it!" Some of you say, but Star Wars is like pizza. Even bad pizza is still pizza, and I'll take as much as I can stomach.

It's not anger, more disappointment and frustration. There's a giant galaxy and massive amounts of time in the SW universe that has not been explored yet they keep coming back to overplayed characters that have 40+ years of material. On top of that each time they revise these characters in canon there's a chance the new additions to their story cheapen, change the original versions of them or their spirit established by Lucas. It's messing with long established history. Even if its just perceptions of characters that are long standing. Disney didn't create Vader so IMO they have no right to touch his story in terms of canon. They are the current caretakers of SW and the lack of respect for the original material and its history they continually show is mind boggling.

I like the pizza analogy and thats partially why so many of us remain fans and watching new SW content. It's SW so yes we want more pizza! It's not that more SW is bad its that we'd like to have a new kind of pizza with new ingredients in addition to the original recipe that we can always come back to. Leave the pepperoni off for once lol.

 

[Master Boda]

I like to respond in kind.

Why thank you.

 

[sbaxter]

I don't normally do this but the writing and contrive plot points are getting so bad I have to.....

So trackers make droids evil?
Why didn't Tala use the Thermal Detonator earlier
Why didn't they use the second shuttle to get the other people out
Why didn't Vader stop the second shuttle
Why didn't the Star Destroyer blow it up as it left the planet

I presume the restraining "bolt" carried various programming overrides. They referred to it as a "tracker" because that was the aspect of it they were using to follow Obi-Wan and Leia.

I presume she didn't use the thermal detonator earlier because she was hoping she would not have to blow herself up, and also because she didn't want to use it until she could take out the maximum number of Imperial troops. She might have had better opportunities, yes, but there was a lot going down.

I figure they got everyone out on that shuttle they could. Some needed to stay behind to hold back the Imperial forces.

I firmly believe that using the Force carries with it an aspect of physical extertion -- otherwise, Jedi and Sith alike would use the "Force Dash" far more often. So I presume Vader, having just pulled back the first shuttle -- not without some difficulty -- wouldn't have been able to stop the second one so soon after stopping the first.

As for your last question -- well, it was one ship; maybe the destroyer wasn't in position, or they had orders not to destroy the shuttle but to capture it, which seems to me the more difficult task, but also more likely (Obi-Wan was aboard, and Vader doesn't want to just blow him up, especially if he wasn't the one pulling the trigger). Maybe someone on that star destroyer has a Force Choking session scheduled with Lord Vader after failing to capture the ship.

SSB

 

[Master Boda]

This confirms what I said. This isn't selfish. It's the same thing George did with PT and the CW cartoons. Expanding the story. Somehow when George does it, it's okay, but Disney is the bad guy?

Did George try to promote a agenda then cut some of his movie and change the movie poster because the market he wanted to reach did not approve of it?

 

[Joek3rr]

I know not everyone likes The Last Jedi. But there's a line from Yoda that I think is very fitting. "We are what they grow beyond." Maybe that's become some of us? Star Wars has grown beyond us? It is passing into the hands of younger storytellers and younger fans. Maybe we all need to work on just letting it go? And just remain content with what we have. Because nothing can change the fact we all have awesome stories to watch or read and to share.

 

[Master Boda]

It's not anger, more disappointment and frustration. There's a giant galaxy and massive amounts of time in the SW universe that has not been explored yet they keep coming back to overplayed characters that have 40+ years of material. On top of that each time they revise these characters in canon there's a chance the new additions to their story cheapen, change the original versions of them or their spirit established by Lucas. It's messing with long established history. Even if its just perceptions of characters that are long standing. Disney didn't create Vader so IMO they have no right to touch his story in terms of canon. They are the current caretakers of SW and the lack of respect for the original material and its history they continually show is mind boggling.

I like the pizza analogy and thats partially why so many of us remain fans and watching new SW content. It's SW so yes we want more pizza! It's not that more SW is bad its that we'd like to have a new kind of pizza with new ingredients in addition to the original recipe that we can always come back to. Leave the pepperoni off for once lol.

You are almost describing culture vandalism.

 

[Master Boda]

I know not everyone likes The Last Jedi. But there's a line from Yoda that I think is very fitting. "We are what they grow beyond." Maybe that's become some of us? Star Wars has grown beyond us? It is passing into the hands of younger storytellers and younger fans. Maybe we all need to work on just letting it go? And just remain content with what we have. Because nothing can change the fact we all have awesome stories to watch or read and to share.

I guess to paraphrase Vision,something is beautiful because it existed not because it lasts.

 

[Picard102]

Again...I ask, do you agree with their vision?

Yes. I have no problem with what's be presented here lining up with ANH.
I don't see it unraveling anything that's come before, but expanding on it, and improving the OT, PT, and CW. But I also don't have any sort of reverence for the OT either.

 

[CopperRevan]

Yes. I have no problem with what's be presented here lining up with ANH.
I don't see it unraveling anything that's come before, but expanding on it, and improving the OT, PT, and CW. But I also don't have any sort of reverence for the OT either.

Wait...so it improves it? Well then, trying to convince you is like trying to convince a person running away from the sun that he can outrun his own shadow.

Sincerely, glad Kenobi makes you happy

 

[Psab keel]

Absolutely agree. just a thought.

Is it possible to have a 'legendary' character, like Obi Wan, Luke, Vader, continue in some way, that doesn't stop other, new stories and characters in the process? We do have Bond, Ryan, Hunt, etc though the generations. Seems the company somehow made that work with variants on grimm's fairy tales, not saying there is a lot of meat on the bone for Star Wars fans, but its been done for other stories, no?

i am not asking for me of course although it would be cool to make the mandolorian appear when you least expect him, like a Marvel team-up

How many stories can be told with these characters that are actually deepening our understanding of them? I just think creating new stories with new characters is a much better way to go.

Yes. I have no problem with what's be presented here lining up with ANH.
I don't see it unraveling anything that's come before, but expanding on it, and improving the OT, PT, and CW. But I also don't have any sort of reverence for the OT either.

Why does everything need to be redefined, recontextualized, enhanced, or "improved?" It's no secret that I absolutely loathe the ST, but I would very much be against them being remade because for good or ill, it's a time capsule of the period in which they were made. Is it really so bad for a story to end? The want for more of the same is what robs stories of their meaning.

I can't think of a single story that has gone through more revisions than Star Wars. Why is it that every other classic story has been allowed to end with some dignity and yet this story has to be constantly changed to suit the tastes of the current culture? How many version of the Odyssey are there? I'm not talking about translations either. I'm talking straight up reboot? Or the Odyssey Two: We still sailin!

 

[Krieger]

How many stories can be told with these characters that are actually deepening our understanding of them? I just think creating new stories with new characters is a much better way to go.



Why does everything need to be redefined, recontextualized, enhanced, or "improved?" It's no secret that I absolutely loathe the ST, but I would very much be against them being remade because for good or ill, it's a time capsule of the period in which they were made. Is it really so bad for a story to end? The want for more of the same is what robs stories of their meaning.

I can't think of a single story that has gone through more revisions than Star Wars. Why is it that every other classic story has been allowed to end with some dignity and yet this story has to be constantly changed to suit the tastes of the current culture? How many version of the Odyssey are there? I'm not talking about translations either. I'm talking straight up reboot? Or the Odyssey Two: We still sailin!

Fair. If there is never another BSG again, at least we have the best one ever. Same with the OT

Disney/LFL, if you are reading this, take note of all the comments.

 

[Joek3rr]

How many stories can be told with these characters that are actually deepening our understanding of them? I just think creating new stories with new characters is a much better way to go.



Why does everything need to be redefined, recontextualized, enhanced, or "improved?" It's no secret that I absolutely loathe the ST, but I would very much be against them being remade because for good or ill, it's a time capsule of the period in which they were made. Is it really so bad for a story to end? The want for more of the same is what robs stories of their meaning.

I can't think of a single story that has gone through more revisions than Star Wars. Why is it that every other classic story has been allowed to end with some dignity and yet this story has to be constantly changed to suit the tastes of the current culture? How many version of the Odyssey are there? I'm not talking about translations either. I'm talking straight up reboot? Or the Odyssey Two: We still sailin!

Because that's what generational storytelling does. King Arthur, Robin Hood, what have you. Every telling of the story added something new and different.

Tolkien was constantly altering his story.

Star Trek has had so many changes.

Star Wars is is just one mythos out of many that's had an ongoing evolution.

And go back to the OT. ESB added to ANH it recontextualized it. It could be argued it very much improved it. And ROTJ did the same. At it's very foundation, Star Wars is based on change.