Star Trek Into Darkness (Pre-release)

[Angelus Lupus]

I think Starfleet is more para-military. Like UN or NATO peace-keeping forces. I rather think there must be quite a few ships where the number of scientists, mission specialists (archaeologists, geologists, etc) outnumber the rank-and-file space-faring crew. In TOS even weapons specialists like Sulu also had science qualifications.

 

[NakedMoleRat]

What I did like about 09 Trek was that each character had a moment to be the single hero.

Kirk, obviously.

Spock, jelly fish ship.

Checkov, transporter..."I can do this."

Scotty, "Three people form two different spots on one pad!"

Uhura, trasnlated the Romulan's intent.

Sulu, sword combat.

McCoy, getting Kirk on board, various doctoring things.

What I didn't like is that as mentioned, it could have been a Galaxy Quest movie, or any other and it would have been the same.


So, JJ says, I never got Trek! Hey, I'll stroll down a moonlight road and have a revelation.....

Hey, if Trek was like THIS I would have gotten it! I'll make Trek like THIS so that OTHERS will get it!

So, yea, he's making a Trek that only non-fans will get!

 

[SSgt Burton]

Name one NASA ship that had a weapon on it. I don't recall the Apollo spacecraft being armed with a weapon, yet the Enterprise carries enough armaments to destroy all life on a planet. There's even a General Order to initiate such an action. Again, what is so different about the Wrath of Khan?

Well for starters the new formal uniforms that are over the top for day to day Starship functions. Gorgeous uniform, little practicality.

The primary function of NASA is exploration. The primary function of the military is defence.

Please tell me what the five year mission of the Enterprise was.



Kevin

 

[Zuiun]

That was the basis of her role in the last movie. The boys go off to save the galaxy, she wishes them well and stays behind to do.... well, corridor running.

Funny, I recall her doing a bit more in the film than just one single scene of running in a corridor. But whatever.

 

[Jeyl]

The primary function of NASA is exploration. The primary function of the military is defence.

Please tell me what the five year mission of the Enterprise was.

The five year mission is over. It's now "her ongoing mission". And I don't recall the Enterprise in TWOK doing anything military like, like heading towards the neutral zone to be on constant patrol so that those pesky Romulans or Klingons don't enter. Just look at this scene and tell me that they're being very militaristic here.

Saavik: Course heading Captain?
Kirk: Captain's discretion. :angel
Spock: Mr. Sulu, you may indulge yourself.
Sulu: Aye, sir!

Their military practices will harden you like a rock man.

 

[Jeyl]

Funny, I recall her doing a bit more in the film than just one single scene of running in a corridor. But whatever.

Like saying she knew Romulan in all it's three dialects? That was important considering the Romulans spoke perfect english.

 

[Solo4114]

That was the basis of her role in the last movie. The boys go off to save the galaxy, she wishes them well and stays behind to do.... well, corridor running.

*From RiffTrax*
Uhura: MOVE!
Bill Corbett: *confused* I wasn't even in your way.

Bear in mind, the transporter room and the bridge are on the same deck. It's literally right behind the freaking bridge. So taken to it's logical conclusion, Uhura decided to wait in the Transporter room for almost three whole minutes after Kirk and Spock beam onto the Narada before she starts running her way back to the bridge.

I look at this, and I can't help but think how desperately JJ wishes he could direct a Star Wars flick.

 

[Jeyl]

Funny, I recall her doing a bit more in the film than just one single scene of running in a corridor. But whatever.

Or was it the part where she successfully listened to nothing? I think the guy who was assigned to that station could understand the concept of not hearing anything.

 

[SSgt Burton]

Like saying she knew Romulan in all it's three dialects? That was important considering the Romulans spoke perfect english.

See now you're just being silly. "Every" alien race on Star Trek spoke English... or rather we "heard" them speaking in English because of the Universal Translator (you do know about this device right?).

The conceit was that the Universal Translator was on "all the time" to allow the audience to "hear English" (or whatever language native to the country it was broadcast in). There are times when the Romulans or Klingons spoke Romulan/Klingon with subtitles to have it seem a little more realistic, however if you did this all the time, you would risk losing your audience. :rolleyes


As for Nichelle Nichols comment (which you still manage to dismiss even though she was one of the principle actors in the franchise)- it was in reaction to the entire premise of Star Trek II itself.

WOK was in essence a Naval battle in space. That is a military genre movie, not a movie about exploration. THAT is the difference. Trek has done this before, but Trek ON THE WHOLE, was more about charting the unknown than being about Earth's defence force.


I'm done arguing with you.


Kevin

 

[greatwazoo42]

Just being visible as a black, female, bridge officer was pushing boundaries in the 60's. Martin Luther King certainly thought she was achieving something.

Nichelle Nichols - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It was in Star Trek that Nichols gained popular recognition by being one of the first black women featured in a major television series not portraying a servant; her prominent supporting role as a bridge officer was unprecedented. During the first year of the series, Nichols was tempted to leave the show, as she wanted to pursue a Broadway career; however, a conversation with Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., changed her mind. She has said that King personally encouraged her to stay on the show, telling her that he was a big fan of the series. He said she "could not give up" because she was playing a vital role model for black children and young women across the country, as well as for other children who would see African Americans appearing as equals.[5][6] It is also often reported that Dr. King added that "Once that door is opened by someone, no one else can close it again."
Former NASA astronaut Mae Jemison has cited Nichols's role of Lieutenant Uhura as her inspiration for wanting to become an astronaut and Whoopi Goldberg has also spoken of Nichols's influence.[7] Goldberg asked for a role on Star Trek: The Next Generation,[8] and the character of Guinan was specially created, while Jemison appeared in an episode of the series.
In her role as Lieutenant Uhura, Nichols famously kissed white actor William Shatner as Captain James T. Kirk in the November 22, 1968, Star Trek episode "Plato's Stepchildren". The episode is popularly cited as the first example of an inter-racial kiss on United States television.[9][10][11]
The Shatner-Nichols kiss was seen as groundbreaking, even though the kiss was portrayed as having been forced by alien telekinesis. There was some praise and some protest. In her 1994 autobiography, Beyond Uhura, Star Trek and Other Memories, on page 197 Nichols cites a letter from one white Southerner who wrote: "I am totally opposed to the mixing of the races. However, any time a red-blooded American boy like Captain Kirk gets a beautiful dame in his arms that looks like Uhura, he ain't gonna fight it." During the Comedy Central roast of Shatner on August 20, 2006, Nichols jokingly referred to the groundbreaking moment and said, "Let's make TV history again ... and you can kiss my black a**!"

 

[Jeyl]

WOK was in essence a Naval battle in space.

That's a disingenuous argument. For one thing, there were only two space battle moments in the whole film. And they weren't done for action's sake either because each battle stemmed from the characters current state. Kirk is arrogant and dismissive of warning signs which results in the Enterprise being crippled and some of her crew getting killed. He later recovers from this by using his starfleet captain's experience (which Khan lacks) on how a Starship works which enables him to gain the upper hand. And the final battle when they enter the Mutara Nebula to even out the odds, Spock points out that Khan's battle patterns are two dimensional, which gives Kirk the idea to bring the ship deeper into the Nebula so that the Reliant can pass right over her.

You see, the space battles 'complimented' the story and the characters, not the other way around.

BONUS ROUND

Here's an aciton scene from Trek09.

Sulu: Olsen had the charges!
Kirk: I know!
Sulu: What do we do?
Kirk: THIS!
*They pick up guns and shoot the bad thing*

That's right. Sulu needed help from Kirk in order to figure out that shooting at a machine is an effective way of stopping it. But hey, what else can you expect from someone who thinks a katana is a fencing sword?

 

[PotionMistress]

The minute NASA(?) accomplished warp speed and the Vulcans made first contact, it changed the nature of our goals from just exploration to exploration AND defense. The difference between current real-world NASA and the Trek world is the ALIENS! Carrying weapons is vital to survival when you’re dealing with the possibility of defending yourself from others, for whatever reason. The lines between exploration and militarism were then blurred necessarily in order to move forward successfully.

 

[ProfKSergeev]

So will this echo chamber still be resounding when everyone else on Earth is in a theater enjoying the everloving hell out of some Star Trek?

That's a rhetorical question, by the way.

 

[Jeyl]

So will this echo chamber still be resounding when everyone else on Earth is in a theater enjoying the everloving hell out of some Star Trek?

If we have to wait till May in order to enjoy the ever loving hell out of Star Trek, you obviously aren't looking hard enough.

 

[greatwazoo42]

But hey, what else can you expect from someone who thinks a katana is a fencing sword?

Iaido and Fencing are synonyms. Trust me; I do both.

 

[Solo4114]

Iaido and Fencing are synonyms. Trust me; I do both.

Do you mean kendo or iaido itself? I thought iaido was more the art of drawing the blade and cutting with it, whereas kendo was the art of actually sparring with it. Well, with shinai anyway.


Regardless, one can "fence" with a katana. People just have an image of "fencing" as only being doable with a foil.

 

[Riceball]

Do you mean kendo or iaido itself? I thought iaido was more the art of drawing the blade and cutting with it, whereas kendo was the art of actually sparring with it. Well, with shinai anyway.


Regardless, one can "fence" with a katana. People just have an image of "fencing" as only being doable with a foil.

Having fenced, I can't say that a katana resembles any fencing weapon, it's not a thrust only weapon like the foil and epee and while can cut and thrust like a sabre it's two handed where as all fencing weapons are one handed. The techniques used in fencing and kendo/kenjutsu/iaido are completely as is the handling of the weapon.

 

[greatwazoo42]

Riceball's got it. They aren't identical but there are similarities and the "art of the 'fence" from which Fencing derives it's name where 'fence is short for defence is a direct reference to training at arms with edged weapons. Modern Fencing is foil, epee, saber, etc., but old school fencing uses everything with an edge or a point.

That and also his line was a nod to Sulu being all oiled up and shirtless in The Naked Time:

 

[Solo4114]

Having fenced, I can't say that a katana resembles any fencing weapon, it's not a thrust only weapon like the foil and epee and while can cut and thrust like a sabre it's two handed where as all fencing weapons are one handed. The techniques used in fencing and kendo/kenjutsu/iaido are completely as is the handling of the weapon.

If you're taking the meaning of the term "fencing" to mean solely "Western european-style fencing derived from 16th century sword-fighting techniques" then, yes, I agree with you.


Basically, I imagine Sulu saying "I took fencing when I was younger" and then whipping out a katana to mean "I learned sword-fighting when I was younger" rather than referencing kendo, iaido, shinkendo, etc., which would all leave people saying "he did what?!" I suppose he could've said "I took samurai sword fighting classes" but....yeah not necessary.

 

[Mola Rob]

"Although Gene Roddenberry created Starfleet in the original Star Trek with a military structure, he deliberately avoided getting very detailed on the nature of that structure (what he called "excessive militarism"). Director Nicholas Meyer, however, decided to further expand this part of the Star Trek mythos, making the uniforms and insignias more military in style, adding a ship's bell and boatswain's whistle, and writing the dialogue to be more accurate to actual naval protocol."

It's fairly obvious Nicolas Myer added a more military theme to Trek even without reading various quotes in which he said he did it intentionally.

He even made the battles resemble two ships at sea side by side shooting their cannons at each other. Which is an utterly stupid thing to do in deep space when you think about it, with all that room and three dimensions to move about in. :facepalm