Star Trek Into Darkness (Post-release)

I didn't denigrate your argument, you said:
"Such a vague generalization that doesn't give Star Trek any distinguishing features. Any genre of stories, whether they're books, comics, films or a television series can be just about the characters. It's like saying "Any film can be in color", but that's not all it takes to be good."
I NEVER suggested story doesn't matter. You chose to equivocate and make your response about something I never said. Look it up, maybe you will come to understand why so many take issue with your arguments.
 
...Or, later in the film you have enough power to beam Spock down to the surface, but not to beam someone up...
I've seen this mentioned several times, and they explained it in the movie. They couldn't beam Khan up because he was constantly in motion and the transporter couldn't lock onto him; it had nothing to do with the power available to the transporters.

pfft...10 sentences.

4 sentences baby!!!
I got that beat. "A genetically engineered superhuman attempts to destroy Starfleet. Kirk, Spock, and the crew of the Enterprise stop him." Two sentences; done. :D
 
I got that beat. "A genetically engineered superhuman attempts to destroy Starfleet. Kirk, Spock, and the crew of the Enterprise stop him." Two sentences; done. :D

I still prefer the first official synopsis.


When the crew of the Enterprise is called back home, they find an unstoppable force of terror from within their own organization has detonated the fleet and everything it stands for, leaving our world in a state of crisis.

With a personal score to settle, Captain Kirk leads a manhunt to a war-zone world to capture a one man weapon of mass destruction.

As our heroes are propelled into an epic chess game of life and death, love will be challenged, friendships will be torn apart, and sacrifices must be made for the only family Kirk has left: his crew.

I was really disappointed at the lack of a fleet "detonating".
 
I've seen this mentioned several times, and they explained it in the movie. They couldn't beam Khan up because he was constantly in motion and the transporter couldn't lock onto him; it had nothing to do with the power available to the transporters.

I got that beat. "A genetically engineered superhuman attempts to destroy Starfleet. Kirk, Spock, and the crew of the Enterprise stop him." Two sentences; done. :D

damn you!!
 
I've seen this mentioned several times, and they explained it in the movie. They couldn't beam Khan up because he was constantly in motion and the transporter couldn't lock onto him; it had nothing to do with the power available to the transporters.

Even though Carol Marcus was walking all over the place on the bridge and she still was transported. There are no set rules for transporter operations in New Trek.
 
Why doesn't Khan tell the crew how to properly open the torpedo he designed that houses one of his followers? You would think that someone who cares so deeply about his followers that he would wage an all out war on Starfleet for merely "assuming" they were killed would tell the technicians how to avoid arming the torpedo.
 
So what's wrong with saying that you agree? Why not discuss what's actually being discussed rather than derailing this thread into another Jeyl bash session?

Because this is the same none sense you do every time. Like when I said I wasn't a slave to previous Trek canon for these new movies you responded "What if they changed Kirk's name to Bob!". That's not a reasonable response, it's so much hyperbole and not germane to what was being discussed.

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Even though Carol Marcus was walking all over the place on the bridge and she still was transported. There are no set rules for transporter operations in New Trek.

Actually she was standing still when she began to transport. Only once the beaming started did she begin to move.
 
Actually she was standing still when she began to transport. Only once the beaming started did she begin to move.

That and she was aboard ship as opposed to in a volcano or running/hitchhiking through a busy and crowded city. Starships have sensor nets in them which are linked to transport systems which enhance their use and accuracy. It's established all over the place and also makes sense. Look at modern tech with wireless network set ups in homes and offices. Add to that her dad has Admiral's priority to any ship to ship commands he could bypass the security systems on the E and use its own transporter system to make sure his daughter is brought to his own ship safely.
 
Actually she was standing still when she began to transport. Only once the beaming started did she begin to move.

Spock's mother was standing still when the transport began.

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Starships have sensor nets in them which are linked to transport systems which enhance their use and accuracy. It's established all over the place and also makes sense.

Except when the transporter chief yells "DON'T MOVE! DON'T MOVE!". If moving wasn't a problem, why are they so insistent that they don't move?
 
Spock's mother was standing still when the transport began.

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Except when the transporter chief yells "DON'T MOVE! DON'T MOVE!". If moving wasn't a problem, why are they so insistent that they don't move?

Nice attempt at using disassociated examples. Fail. Don't move was being yelled while Kirk and Sulu were standing on the drilling platform. Not only was that OUTSIDE the Enterprise it was also OUTSIDE the enemy ship. Same rules apply there as they do in the volcano and crowded city examples. Not to mention the example you choose was as the red matter was beginning its reaction causing gravity waves which our modern science shows causes all sorts of distortion in the EM Spectrum and in other ways. It would make sense that it would also distort transport lock.
 
The death scene, yeah I knew it was in there, a beat for beat recreation, and before seeing the film I was very upset/concerned about that. It had such an emotional impact on me in 1982 and I thought I would have a hard time with it but as it unfolded, I was touched. Certainly no where near as devastated when Spock died, or even more so Kirk's eulogy after, but I was moved. The film had earned that from me after watching the Kirk and Spock banter in front of Pike, or when Kirk tells Spock he will miss him and Spock starts to say something and then closes his mouth and Kirk is exasperated, all of these character moments they built up for me so that scene and impact.

I think the scene was well acted ("KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAN" not withstanding - but that's a tough one to deliver seriously for any actor, I'd wager ;) ) and well directed.

But the entire time, it left me without any feeling of legitimacy. It didn't feel real because I knew they weren't going to permanently kill off Kirk in the second film. Heck, I knew it was unlikely they were even going to have him remain dead until the sequel.

It was like all of the Next Gen episodes that I despise where the very first scene shows the Enterprise blowing up, so you know it's going to be yet another time travel episode.

It's an obvious gimmick and it feels like the writers were taking the easy out. In this case I knew, even as the scene played out, that they'd have some wacky method for bringing Kirk back.

And I think the death was too soon. What could the stakes possibly be for the next film now that they've killed Kirk? And given that they ended the film with Khan frozen again, they definitely leave the door open to bring him back, suggesting this movie was meant to be more Space Seed than WoK (if you think about the conflict, his beef was really never with Kirk in the film, just like in SS he didn't start out actively hating Kirk, just wanting his ship). So they've pretty much already had Khan do the worst he could do -- kill Kirk. What sort of revenge will he exact next time? "I've done far worse than kill yo--er, um, I've killed you, and I'm going to keep on killing you, again and again and again." ;)

The Wrath of Khan, on the other hand, had a LOT more depth in Spock's death. From a story standpoint, there was a lot of legitimate set up for Khan's blind rage and his single-minded determination to hurt Kirk. But beyond just the story, the characters had been around for awhile and getting "a" film, much less two, out of a series that was cancelled after two and a half seasons was pretty remarkable. No one really expected a full franchise of films out of it. Also, WoK was filmed amidst Nimoy's very VOCAL declaration that this would be his last Trek film. In fact, he only agreed to be in it if Spock was killed.

So not only did people not know if there was going to be another film after WoK, but they also knew Nimoy was out.

The point is, until the filmmakers tipped their hand and added the planet epilogue and Nimoy's voice over, Spock's death felt VERY real and very legitimate.
 
I'm not debating how a fictional piece if technology works, that kind of minutiae doesn't detract from my movie going experience thankfully, I was simply correcting the the comment that she was running around the bridge.
 
Nice attempt at using disassociated examples. Fail. Don't move was being yelled while Kirk and Sulu were standing on the drilling platform. Not only was that OUTSIDE the Enterprise it was also OUTSIDE the enemy ship. Same rules apply there as they do in the volcano and crowded city examples.

Like when Spock, his family and the other Vulcan representatives were outside waiting to be transported? They still told them to not move and the beam was already activated.
 
I watched Space Seed last night and have to say, the whole, "Yeah you tried to take my ship and kill all of us, but hey, no charges, no court martial. Go live on this planet and enjoy." was more ridiculous than anything in this film.
 
Like when Spock, his family and the other Vulcan representatives were outside waiting to be transported? They still told them to not move and the beam was already activated.

#1) Gravity distortions from the singularity.
#2) The Enterprise needed to be staffed with a few incompetents so that the new cadets who would be the command crew in short order could show off their superior abilities.
 
I watched Space Seed last night and have to say, the whole, "Yeah you tried to take my ship and kill all of us, but hey, no charges, no court martial. Go live on this planet and enjoy." was more ridiculous than anything in this film.

I always took that as a mixture of Kirk's respect for Kahn as one leader to another, Gene Sr.'s whole "humanity has advanced to a better species by then so we don't take revenge" and also that they were way the hell out in deep space so dumping over 70 stranding supermen and women on a nearby suitable planet and then quarantining it was safer than holding them all onboard ship and then taking them somewhere civilized so they could do it all again. Seemed an elegant solution in the circumstances. That and Kahn's ship was named after a penal colony in the first place.
 
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