At least in STVI it worked. Uhura trying to talk to the Orcs in Klingon was just there to turn her into a damsel so the super powered white guy could come to the rescue.
Star Trek Into Darkness (Post-release)
- Thread starter Vivek
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At least in STVI it worked. Uhura trying to talk to the Orcs in Klingon was just there to turn her into a damsel so the super powered white guy could come to the rescue.
mynameschris
Well-Known Member
I didnt really see it that way, I saw it as a pretty brave and strong thing to do on her part as she was unarmed and no match for a Klingon in a physical sense. The scene turned the entire landing party into damsels in distress as without the arrival of Harrison they would have all been killed.
Her being able to speak Klingon makes much more sense than needing a dusty old book, which was written for laughs at her expense and because Meyer wanted to bring some old books onto the bridge and made her look completely unprofessional as the Klingons could speak English as they were translating in the court room never mind any other scenes, even ones where they wouldnt have had a universal translator like Kronos 1 or the prison.
Speaking of Kronos thats a nit pick I dont get, in The Undiscovered Country the ship, named after the planet, is spelt Kronos in the script, novel, marketing and anything else... It wasnt until TNG that it was spelt Qo'noS, so all they did was return to the TOS era spelling, a change which was never explained and most people forget about.
Her being able to speak Klingon makes much more sense than needing a dusty old book, which was written for laughs at her expense and because Meyer wanted to bring some old books onto the bridge and made her look completely unprofessional as the Klingons could speak English as they were translating in the court room never mind any other scenes, even ones where they wouldnt have had a universal translator like Kronos 1 or the prison.
Speaking of Kronos thats a nit pick I dont get, in The Undiscovered Country the ship, named after the planet, is spelt Kronos in the script, novel, marketing and anything else... It wasnt until TNG that it was spelt Qo'noS, so all they did was return to the TOS era spelling, a change which was never explained and most people forget about.
I think it's very similar to something that happened here on Earth.
For the longest time, the capital of China was known as Peking, but as more understanding of Chinese language and culture permeated the west, it became the more accurately transliterated Beijing. I see the same thing with Kronos vs Qo'noS, a change that would have logically taken place after the Khitomer Accords, or perhaps the Battle of Narendra III.
They didn't "return" to a different spelling. The time frame of the movie is when it was still transliterated into English as Kronos , much the same as if you went back to the 1950's or so, you would hear Beijing referred to as Peking.
mynameschris
Well-Known Member
Good analogy, I couldnt think of any real world examples off the top of my head of that happening when I wrote my post.
I meant the writers accurately went back to spelling it the way it was spelt at that time. I have read so many people on various boards who are up in arms about the spelling when it was appropriate. I noticed the phonetic spelling but didnt think anything of it as thats how I knew it from the novel of TUC and a few other books then assumed the name had changed spelling by the time of TNG.
It would be like, to use your example, a movie set when the world knew the Chinese capital as Peking calling it Beijing, it wouldnt be right.
Oh, I agree and the motivation for Nero was very poorly fleshed out in the film and only made sense reading the Countdown comic. That was ridiculous. In this case, however, it really is minor so I just don't have them same level of upset over it.
Riceball
Master Member
One thing I don't quite get in the movie was Marcus' use of Kahn in ship design and tactics. Granted that Kahn is extremely intelligent and ruthless he still has the same problem that the original Kahn had, he lacks any practical experience or advanced knowledge of space warfare and not to mention that he's hundreds of years out of date in his knowledge of warfare, tactics, and strategy. I'm sure that he could offer general advice by looking at what Starfleet does and how it's organized but I really don't see him as being able to do much more, especially in designing a starship that's meant to be a warship.
One other nitpick/flaw that I don't recall seeing anyone mention before, how the hell was the Revenge able to fire on the Enterprise at warp using phasers? I think that somebody (JJ, ILM, LIndeloff) forgot that warp isn't the same thing as hyperspace and that at warp they are actually travelling faster than light. Given that they are travelling faster than light there should be no way that phasers could work since they are, in part, light based, which means any ship firing phasers at warp would be outrunning their own phaser fire. All they needed to do to fix that would have been for ILM to show photon torpedoes firing instead of phasers and all would have been good.
One other nitpick/flaw that I don't recall seeing anyone mention before, how the hell was the Revenge able to fire on the Enterprise at warp using phasers? I think that somebody (JJ, ILM, LIndeloff) forgot that warp isn't the same thing as hyperspace and that at warp they are actually travelling faster than light. Given that they are travelling faster than light there should be no way that phasers could work since they are, in part, light based, which means any ship firing phasers at warp would be outrunning their own phaser fire. All they needed to do to fix that would have been for ILM to show photon torpedoes firing instead of phasers and all would have been good.
I think the assumption/implication is he is a super genius/quick learner and could be technically adept in this time frame. It is a stretch, no doubt. Not sure how helpful he could be. And at least they mentioned in the film that the Vengeance could fire while at warp. How that work I don't know.
Proper
Well-Known Member
I don't recall the positions of the two ships when the phaser firing actually occurred, but how do you know that the Vengeance hadn't overtaken the E slightly at that point and the phasers were firing "backwards" for lack of better word, at the E, in which case the V's computers can account for such variables and fire effectively. I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'. But you're right, I think it is a rather nitpicky thingie.
SmilingOtter
Master Member
Short answer: relativity.
As to the appropriateness of Marcus hiring Khan to build things for him, it'd be funny if it turned out that Vengeance was designed to be operated by a crew of 73...
As to the appropriateness of Marcus hiring Khan to build things for him, it'd be funny if it turned out that Vengeance was designed to be operated by a crew of 73...
Bob and Alex watched Star Trek Nemesis.
Riceball
Master Member
Ok, I didn't catch part, I thought they were talking about its ability to catch up to them in warp. At any rate, like I said previously, all they had to make the scene work properly was to have the Vengance fire photon torpedoes instead of phasers. I guess everybody there forgot that warp is true FTL travel and not hyperspace so there's no way that phasers could be made to work unless they figured out way to make light go fast than Warp 1.
Which is a good reminder that STID is, for me, a much better experience then Nemesis, Insurrection, Final Frontier, Generations, and were it not for the nostalgia factor, Search for Spock.
It's the warp field. Every ship creates its own unique warp field, which protects the ship itself from relativistic effects, much like the body of a car protects the driver from the effect of the wind. Because they have separate and unique warp bubbles, there has never been a collision at warp.
The Vengeance, however, was capable of entering another ship's warp field, making it so that a fleeing ship could be tracked down and destroyed. Because the Vengeance was in the Enterprise's warp field, it was protected from the same relativistic effects. Therefore, it could fire on the Enterprise using phasers because the phasers would ALSO be protected against relativistic effects.
Okay...What? That skinny guy is supposed to be Kahn?
Don't get me wrong, I haven't seen it yet and I'm sure Cumberbatch is a great actor but Kahn Noonien Singh is supposed to be Sikh from the Asian continent (though I understand The character was originally conceived of as a Nordic superman by scriptwriter Carey Wilber according to Wikipedia). So how is it that he's suddenly a pale Englishman? I guess the same way an Englishman can play a French Captain.
It wouldn't have worked, There's no way Cumberbatch could play as Montalbán did. It would've been laughable. Now if they had gotten someone with the same presence as Montalbán it might've worked.
Three hundred years in a cryotube can play havoc with your tan...
The Refit channeled Phaser power through the Warp engines. When they went into Imbalance and created the wormhole the Phasers wouldn't function. Decker Knew this but Kirk, being unfamiliar with the refits, did not.
I know, my point was he was going to fire phasers so being at warp wasn't the limitation.
DARTH SABER
Master Member
oh boy.
we have complaints about the new film not having original villain and yet there were complaints about the last films villain even though he was original.
we have complaints about reusing old villains but yet TOS TNG and the other trek franchises used Klingons , Romulans, Mudd, Khan, Q several times.
we have complaints that this film is a remake of wrath of Khan even though its not.
we have complaints about the head ridges being different on Klingons even the the look of the Klingons was completely different between TOS and TMP.
as for the comics, im not exactly sure who claimed that the comics need to be read to fully understand the movies.
the comics merely add background info in details which technically are not important to the original film.
everything you need to know to understand the film os in the film...the comics merely provide trivial details for those who are curious.
we have complaints about the new film not having original villain and yet there were complaints about the last films villain even though he was original.
we have complaints about reusing old villains but yet TOS TNG and the other trek franchises used Klingons , Romulans, Mudd, Khan, Q several times.
we have complaints that this film is a remake of wrath of Khan even though its not.
we have complaints about the head ridges being different on Klingons even the the look of the Klingons was completely different between TOS and TMP.
as for the comics, im not exactly sure who claimed that the comics need to be read to fully understand the movies.
the comics merely add background info in details which technically are not important to the original film.
everything you need to know to understand the film os in the film...the comics merely provide trivial details for those who are curious.
Outside of being an original character, Nero wasn't really "that" original. He was just an angry guy who wanted revenge against someone for the death of his wife, tortures his prisoners by putting bugs into their bodies as a means of extracting information and he stole a piece of technology originally meant for good intentions but instead seeks to use it as a planet annihilating weapon. Nero is essentially Khan boiled down to the most basic elements.
There is a huge difference between reusing old villains and using the same race. Granted the original movies relied a bit too much on the Klingons since their introduction in ST3, but the characters couldn't be more different. Kruge is a determined, hostile, angry and impatient villain who will stop at nothing to ensure that he gets the Genesis device. General Chang is a more charismatic, sincere with a touch of glorified arrogance, but still comes across as a dangerous foe.
As for Q, I never looked at him as a villain but more as the series' antagonist. An antagonist and a villain are not the same thing. They can be due to how associated to the protagonists they are, but not in the case of Q. He's the character who institutes the change and obstacles that the protagonist must face. Q was not someone Picard needed to defeat, he was someone who made Picard understand the broader image by forcing him into those situations.
While I certainly used the phrase "If I wanted to see Wrath of Khan, I'll go watch Wrath of Khan" to describe my general reaction to this movie, it is a bit disingenuous. Yes, it's not a remake of the Wrath of Khan, but it did take what made TWOK so pivotal and duped it nearly word for word, situation by situation, setting by setting, and it wasn't all that good.
We do not discuss it with outsiders.
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