star trek enterprise - fifteen years later

[astroboy]

Yeah, I take NO issue with this. For every tradition (like naming always going along with a certain model code), there's that rare moment when it's broken

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[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

So...

Option One: The naming convention we'd seen for decades previous heavily implied that if and when Starfleet reused a registry number with a suffix, it was carried forward with the name of the originating ship, as a way of honoring it. Except in the other canon example it was uncoupled and just the number was carried forward, without the name.

Option Two: Enterprise and Dauntless are examples of the rare occurrence of Starfleet honoring notable ships by carrying their registry numbers forward along with their names. And the NX-01 in Enterprise doesn't have the same name as the NX-01-A we saw earlier because it's a different timeline, as the other supporting evidence reinforces.

To me, one makes sense and the other doens't. Your milage may vary.

--Jonah

 

[astroboy]

So...

Option One: The naming convention we'd seen for decades previous heavily implied that if and when Starfleet reused a registry number with a suffix, it was carried forward with the name of the originating ship, as a way of honoring it. Except in the other canon example it was uncoupled and just the number was carried forward, without the name.

Option Two: Enterprise and Dauntless are examples of the rare occurrence of Starfleet honoring notable ships by carrying their registry numbers forward along with their names. And the NX-01 in Enterprise doesn't have the same name as the NX-01-A we saw earlier because it's a different timeline, as the other supporting evidence reinforces.

To me, one makes sense and the other doens't. Your milage may vary.

--Jonah

I agree with you there. But I have a hard time letting a throwaway from a random episode from voyager dictate enterprise being from part of continuity.

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[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

I agree with you there. But I have a hard time letting a throwaway from a random episode from voyager dictate enterprise being from part of continuity

If it were just that, I might agree. I might try to fudge it. Lord knows I've mentally jigged around other issues. But given both that "random episode" and the Enterprise concept were written/created, in part,by Brannon Braga... Given his track record for ignoring inconvenient data points (Scotty thinking Kirk is still alive when he comes out of the transporter in TNG's "Relics" versus thinking Kirk died on the maiden voyage of the Enterprise-B in Generations... Wanting to make Zefram Cochrane a woman in FIrst Contact to be Picard's love interest in the film, despite the audience having met him decades before in TOS...)... Given the other points about the relative tech levels... It all just became enough otherwise-circumstantial evidence that the easiest explanation was the actions of the Enterprise-E crew in 2063 split off a new timeline.

--Jonah

 

[KrangPrime]

If it were just that, I might agree. I might try to fudge it. Lord knows I've mentally jigged around other issues. But given both that "random episode" and the Enterprise concept were written/created, in part,by Brannon Braga... Given his track record for ignoring inconvenient data points (Scotty thinking Kirk is still alive when he comes out of the transporter in TNG's "Relics" versus thinking Kirk died on the maiden voyage of the Enterprise-B in Generations... Wanting to make Zefram Cochrane a woman in FIrst Contact to be Picard's love interest in the film, despite the audience having met him decades before in TOS...)... Given the other points about the relative tech levels... It all just became enough otherwise-circumstantial evidence that the easiest explanation was the actions of the Enterprise-E crew in 2063 split off a new timeline.

--Jonah

wow..


just goes to show braga may have turned into the typical hollywood arrogant hack.

no respect for what's come before. and he wonders why TOS fans never accepted him as a true trek fan.

 

[astroboy]

no respect for what's come before.

You know...you just summed up my main problem with so much these days. Star trek, star wars, ghostbusters...etc. I wouldn't have any problem with all of these reboots if they had respect for what came before.

 

[KrangPrime]

yep, pretty much.

but, why respect when you can gain your own fame by riding on someone elses coat tails if it works?

star wars at least faired a LITTLE better. there is enough fun in episode 7 to ignore the third retelling of episode 4.

 

[Angelus Lupus]

Let's face it, there were a few decent stories (oddly, none that jump out in my memory).. and some of the cast were pretty good. Unfortunately they were hampered by people in charge that seemed to be weirdly ambivalent about what they wanted the show to be.
On the one hand they were so keen to make it 'different' that they (initially) didn't use the name 'Star Trek', ignored the evolution of technology and completely screwed the canon.
On the other hand they stuck so rigidly to the previous shows' formula that it's laughable: Phlox was basically Nelix with some of The Doctor, T'Pol was Dax and Spock... Add in the fact that it somehow managed to be less progressive than the Original Series; barely use the minority characters, never promote Ensign Mayweather, gratuitous decon scenes, reduce Jolene Blalok to a worse 'sexy' stereotype than 7of9, not to mention her having to fight the PTB for the makeup to actually look Vulcan. (After reading how Terry Farrell was treated I wonder what else she had to go through)
It could have been good, but Enterprise is clearly when those in charge started marketing Trek for horny fanboys more interested in boobs and 'splosions than the 'cerebral' Sci-Fi Rodenberry originally intended.

 

[astroboy]

yep, pretty much.

but, why respect when you can gain your own fame by riding on someone elses coat tails if it works?

star wars at least faired a LITTLE better. there is enough fun in episode 7 to ignore the third retelling of episode 4.

"This will begin to set things right"


That's probably the most disrespectful meta line I've ever heard. As soon as I heard it, I knew JJ had set the bar really high. Which is why I think the film ultimately failed.

 

[KrangPrime]

"This will begin to set things right"


That's probably the most disrespectful meta line I've ever heard. As soon as I heard it, I knew JJ had set the bar really high. Which is why I think the film ultimately failed.

I never heard that one before.

But, I guess he thought that was the general conscenus...


The Clone WArs series showed the prequel characters, EVEN Jar JAr, could be used to good and well.

The Problem with the prequels was execution. Wooden directing, a bad choice for grown up anakin. Starting him WAY too young (all, I assume for a one line joke about him being too old).. fix thosethings, and i think the prequels would have been far more enjoyable to more people..


I'd love to see a Animated Clone Wars adaption to see if my point can be proven that way. and with better romance dialogue that slows the movie down.

 

[astroboy]

I never heard that one before.

But, I guess he thought that was the general conscenus...


The Clone WArs series showed the prequel characters, EVEN Jar JAr, could be used to good and well.

The Problem with the prequels was execution. Wooden directing, a bad choice for grown up anakin. Starting him WAY too young (all, I assume for a one line joke about him being too old).. fix thosethings, and i think the prequels would have been far more enjoyable to more people..


I'd love to see a Animated Clone Wars adaption to see if my point can be proven that way. and with better romance dialogue that slows the movie down.

Really? It was the first line in the film. It just felt arrogant. These guys seem to walk into a room and tell everyone that they are here to fix the mistakes.

But they seem to have little respect for the coat tails they're riding on

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[KrangPrime]

Really? It was the first line in the film. It just felt arrogant. These guys seem to walk into a room and tell everyone that they are here to fix the mistakes.

But they seem to have little respect for the coat tails they're riding on

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I've only seen JJ trek two times and Episode 7 two times. both so forgettable, I thought it was a line from an interview JJ did ;o).

ugh... here is my nerd card. i don't pay attention anymore ;o).

 

[KrangPrime]

Mostly through season 4. i don't think it was as interesting as season 3.

season 3 was mostly pretty good, except for angry archer (I don't buy scott bakula being angry...just like i wouldn't buy tom hanks being a serial killer)

Season 4 seems like too much fan service and not really covering new ground.

And that Alternate universe arc.

It's like they ran out of ideas and needed two episodes of filler since it was never resolved.

 

[DavidS]

Tpol in a mid drift uniform


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[KrangPrime]

eh, doesn't do anything for me

Hoshi in the dress, on the other hand. but then, talking like men isn't allowed in places ;o)


So, I made it through the whole series for the first time since it aired. I guess I really did stick it all the way through, as some stuff seemed familiar.

Season one and two where kind of 'eh'... I thought apart from Angry Archer, Season three was the highlight. the only good parts of season 4 where the Vulcan arc, and the last two episodes before the finale.


The REAL Finale was all wrong.
After a season of buildup, Tpol and trip never get together. I think mayweather and hoshi are still ensigns.everyone is still pretty much in the same place after a ten year jump.
The Shran subplot didn't make too much sense. Why did he leave an entire imperial guard simply because a few low level crooks where after him? I thought the imperial guard didn't run? ....
After threatening to kill off trip about 5 times during the series run, there was no need to do it in the finale..
And of courser, as much as i like the D, and riker and troi, the finale was a big screw u to the crew.


I think what should have happened was one of the main crew dying, but not trip. Make it Reed, who was more of an action, army man anyway and more likely to act impulsively.
you could keep the plot of riker learning a lesson about following orders, and drop the whole mothballing the enterprise, and final mission, and federation speech stuff. Save that for the REAL last episode.

Another thing that was kind of sad, everyone BUT Enterprise got these big two hour finales. If you had made the riker stuff the first hour, and the federation stuff the second, you still could have ended with the ships and federation mantra.

As much as I hate new trek, i do think it was time for a change. brannon and braga where getting too comfortable and too lazy fighting the network for change and something different. the network seemed ot be calling more of the shots, and the same old same old wasn't really working as much.


I don't know what would have been needed, but the direction they went didn't work for long.

It's kind of sad watching the pilot. you DO get a sense that this is humanities first brave foray into space. that's lost rather quickly and everything seems more routine.
By the time they get to season 4 and the throw backs they otherwise avoided like the plague, it was too late and most of the audience had left. it then felt like a gimmick more than a tribute.

I dunno. i 'm hoping this new series can be good, but i'm not putting many bets on it.

 

[DavidS]

I still wish they had waited till the end of season 1 before they launched. Make THAT step seem more difficult and the payoff greater


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[KrangPrime]

I still wish they had waited till the end of season 1 before they launched. Make THAT step seem more difficult and the payoff greater


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I agree.

i don't see why spending some time and exploring a future earth that we really knew very little about, even after four previous series..what's the harm in that?

 

[Zombie_61]

I agree.

i don't see why spending some time and exploring a future earth that we really knew very little about, even after four previous series..what's the harm in that?

Well, for starters the show is called Star Trek, not What Earth Might Be Like In The Not Too Distant Future Trek. And if they had done even half a season of characters arguing about whether they should or shouldn't launch, I don't think there would have been a second season; few, if any, fans care about the politics and bureaucracy behind getting Enterprise and her crew into space.

 

[KrangPrime]

Well, for starters the show is called Star Trek, not What Earth Might Be Like In The Not Too Distant Future Trek. And if they had done even half a season of characters arguing about whether they should or shouldn't launch, I don't think there would have been a second season; few, if any, fans care about the politics and bureaucracy behind getting Enterprise and her crew into space.

Point taken .


But, they could have added romulans to the plot or something. manipulating the vulcans into sabotaging earths effort to launch.
could have been an interesting twist.

 

[Zombie_61]

Point taken .


But, they could have added romulans to the plot or something. manipulating the vulcans into sabotaging earths effort to launch.
could have been an interesting twist.

I don't think the Vulcans needed manipulation; they appeared to have their own reasons to keep delaying the launch...beyond "You're not ready," that is. It might have been interesting if they had explored that more and eventually revealed some hidden motive for the Vulcans to be so determined in their efforts to prevent Enterprise's launch, but, of course, that didn't happen.