star trek enterprise - fifteen years later

[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

Well, for starters the show is called Star Trek, not What Earth Might Be Like In The Not Too Distant Future Trek. And if they had done even half a season of characters arguing about whether they should or shouldn't launch, I don't think there would have been a second season; few, if any, fans care about the politics and bureaucracy behind getting Enterprise and her crew into space.

Ahh, but it wasn't called Star Trek -- at least, not at first. It was just "Enterprise" up until partway into season three. I think it coulda been done. Didn't necessarily mean hanging out on Earth. Coulda been lots of space travel -- from Earth to the orbital graving docks, from the Sol system to the Vulcan system, show us some of the local species and their relationships as Earth and their recently-unified Starfleet start to be a more serious player, etc.

--Jonah

 

[DavidS]

Exactly! It WASNT called Star Trek!

Besides. I think it was a big design leap from the warp 3 prototype to the warp 5 NX

Maybe that's where the Franklin fits in? Lol


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[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

It would have required them to not bork the timeline, but I'd love to have seen something that picked up after (non-meddled-with) First Contact. Phase II is to build a new longer-range habitation module and join it up with the Phoenix's drive section which had been left in orbit. Cochrane would rechristen this ship Bonaventure and he would do much nearspace exploring in it before he and his ship disappear without a trace. A couple years after First Contact, the Valiant launches on a longer-range exploratory mission before it vanishes without a trace. There's a lot of stuff in the latter half of Trek's 21st century that has been hinted at but never seen, and which I find compelling: Colonel Green's War, the Post-Atomic Horror in Asia, the state of colonial independence from Earth and what FTL tech meant for Human influence after those colonies were suddenly in closer contact with Earth than they had been...

I want to see Humans emerging as players in galactic politics a bit earlier than right before the founding of the Federation. I want to see the various warp-equipped system fleets unify in the 2130s into the Starfleet, I want to see first contact (ship-to-ship only) with the Romulans, I want to see all of this happening at warp 1 and 2. I want to see the ringship-Enterprise launched with a more advanced Vulcan drive system in one of the few early significant shows of interspecies cooperation.

In short I want to see a few "call-forwards" to the later shows and films (chronologically), such as Cochrane's disappearance or the end of the New United Nations, more on those races we saw in the various series and movies and not whole rafts of new species we never see again, and a lot of dramatic presentation of the Human passion to see what's over the next hill coupled with our propensity for community-building. I did not and still do not want to see: the Temporal Cold War (or, really, any time travel at all), bad attitudes and arguments as character interaction, T&A replacing time that could have been spent advancing the plot, and (of course) my ongoing rants about timeline and tech problems.

--Jonah

 

[YenChih Lin]

If it were up to me, I'd erase ENT completely from canon, and use Jonah's idea with Coto as screenwriter, it's more pre-Federation and in continuity than what was called ENT. So much potential wasted and know they surely trying to cram it DIS with ENT and TOS… I don't know how that's going to work…

 

[astroboy]

It's a real shame that so many trek fans object to enterprise.

I think it's a good show, it just played way too fast and loose with a Canon that had been established over so many shows

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[KrangPrime]

It's a real shame that so many trek fans object to enterprise.

I think it's a good show, it just played way too fast and loose with a Canon that had been established over so many shows

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Agreed on the cannon.

But I think that was more braga and berman's fault.

And, to some extent, Roddenberry's.

Supposedly Rodd told 'em to not watch TOS and to ignore it when starting out TNG. And my guess is that they took that to heart.

but, when doing something like enterprise, however, it's one time they should have paid attention from the start.

There was no need to name the NX Enterprise was their first problem Ithink

 

[astroboy]

Agreed on the cannon.

But I think that was more braga and berman's fault.

And, to some extent, Roddenberry's.

Supposedly Rodd told 'em to not watch TOS and to ignore it when starting out TNG. And my guess is that they took that to heart.

but, when doing something like enterprise, however, it's one time they should have paid attention from the start.

There was no need to name the NX Enterprise was their first problem Ithink

Good points.

I think they were stuck calling it enterprise because they wanted to distance it from the other star trek series. They wanted it more connected with the world of zefram Cochrane than that of Kirk.

Hence the fact that they didn't call it Star Trek: enterprise. And they used that divisive theme song. (Which I love)

But they had to identify it as a star trek show.

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[Treadwell]

They were hoping to hook those who would dismiss it out of hand because Star Trek is for nerds.

 

[KrangPrime]

stupid paramount.

Worked so welll for enterprise AND JJ Trek.

 

[Apollo]

I have had the Blu-ray box set for awhile finally going to watch it again since it aired......

 

[Apollo]

Midway through the second season and now I remember why I tuned out, God this show was awful

 

[Apollo]

You are going to be waiting a long time.

There are no plans for DS-9 or Voyager to be released on Blu

Nope, busy waiting for the blu-ray/whatever format HD-remaster

 

[The Terminator]

You are going to be waiting a long time.

There are no plans for DS-9 or Voyager to be released on Blu

I realized that a long while ago but I am quite sure the wait will be worth it

 

[Apollo]

"Don't put off tommorow what you can...... :lol

 

[Apollo]

Just finished the Series last night, thank God and boy was it painful!

I am amazed at just how awful the writing was on this show.

They were recycling plot lines that had been done to death on TNG, on Voyager, etc.

No wonder the ratings just continually plummeted as the series went on.

A shame that Braga was allowed to destroy the franchise, and he knows he did, in one of the Special features he said that he was done after season 3 and was glad Coto was running Season 4 as he was just totally out of ideas.

On the reunion with the cast 10 Years later Braga copped to his abhorrent writing as well.

Berman should have known better he is to blame as well.

What struck me is the similarity of what the new show has to contend with and is the reason it is already delayed, ie, a new network, and a whole lot of suits i am sure putting their 2 cents in.

It does not bode well....

 

[KrangPrime]

Just finished the Series last night, thank God and boy was it painful!

I am amazed at just how awful the writing was on this show.

They were recycling plot lines that had been done to death on TNG, on Voyager, etc.

No wonder the ratings just continually plummeted as the series went on.

A shame that Braga was allowed to destroy the franchise, and he knows he did, in one of the Special features he said that he was done after season 3 and was glad Coto was running Season 4 as he was just totally out of ideas.

On the reunion with the cast 10 Years later Braga copped to his abhorrent writing as well.

Berman should have known better he is to blame as well.

What struck me is the similarity of what the new show has to contend with and is the reason it is already delayed, ie, a new network, and a whole lot of suits i am sure putting their 2 cents in.

It does not bode well....

Too be fair, Berman and Braga seemed burned out when they reached voyager. and i bet constantly fighting the suits across three series didn't help either.

It's a shame that we went from people who we thought killed the franchise, to JJ who absolutely ramsacked it into the ground.

This new series seems like more of the same from corporate people who just don't get star trek.
i thought it was doomed the minute it was announced as being 'more raunchy'. immediatly through my mind was thoughts of nude dancing orions and F Bombs launched everywhere. not to mention gratuitous violent battle scenes with peoples heads coming off.
st is doomed

 

[Apollo]

I agree.

Now with that being said that sitll does not give Berman a pass.

He should have been smart enough to get new writers in there

The last ground breaking innovative Trek incarnation was DS-9.

As far as Trek being doomed, i have often said, and still do, it is dead.

It is a different world now and I do not think the concept will apply to what the suits want to target now

Too be fair, Berman and Braga seemed burned out when they reached voyager.

 

[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

My take on it from being around all of it from TNG on... Berman is a Hollywood chameleon -- one of those producers who stays employed by being good at repeating back what the person interviewing them said their show is about in their own words, so the interviewer (in this case, Gene Roddenberry) goes "my god! he gets it!"... even though it's only superficial. There was a whole lot of turnaround the first couple years of TNG (watch the documentary "Chaos on the Bridge"), and out of that the only real creative oversight that showed above the noise was Gene, Bob Justman, D.C. Fontana, and Maurice Hurley. When it settled down in the third season and Gene started to be less involved, from then on you always see "Rick Berman and somebody else" as the executive producers. That "and someone else" has been the real name to pay attention to.

The tone shift in TNG from season 3 on was Mike Piller, and that tone continued into early DS9, before he retired and Rick moved over to getting Voyager started. When the run-up to DS9 got going at the same time as season 6 of TNG, Jeri Taylor got bumped up to "co-executive producer", and she and Ron Moore were doing the bulk of the creative oversight for the last couple seasons.

The tone shift on DS9 came when Ira Behr and Ron Moore came on board, and that shift is massive. Ira Behr and Maurice Hurley, by the way, would be my dream team to produce a new Trek series.

Rick actually exercised the most "creative" input when he and Jeri Taylor were getting Voyager started. Unfortunately. It was his mandate that the crew be perfect paragons of Humanity, the foil against which the various aliens-races-of-the-week would be contrasted. As any novice writer can tell you, that kind of perfection is really boring. Jeri acquiesced (being used to being his subordinate), and a lot of the stiffness of the characters early on is due to that. By the time, Jeri stepped back and Brannon Braga came on as the "and someone else", the main cast's personalities were pretty well locked in. Writers and actors tried to stretch things as far as they could while still staying in character, but they had been so straitjacketed early on, there was only so much they could do. Robert Beltran was probably the most vocal in his annoyance with that.

Braga's creative approach was more action and more T&A. I can see a solid throughline from the Hirogen to the Xinti.

For the TNG films, it was also "Berman and someone else". And the someone elses (one for Generations, the second for the other three) had no Trek experience prior to Berman tapping them to help with the movies. Berman was on all four as a writer, but pretty much unfettered in such capacity. It frustrates me... Writers like Braga and Moore are really good -- provided they have a strong story editor and/or executive producer riding herd on them. They each contributed some of the better episodes of TNG, back in the day (despite Moore pulling one of the most egregious continuity breaks in Trek history by suddenly and unilaterally deciding O'Brien was enlisted, and no one overriding him). But in a lot of cases, they were given the story to flesh out into a teleplay, or came up with the story, too, but had the story editor or another writer working with them to bring it together...

--Jonah

 

[Apollo]

Mike Piller and Gene cooon are imo the unsung heroes of TOS and TNG.

So sad how we lost Mike, no one can ever fill his shoes

 

[KrangPrime]

you can have people be 'perfect examples' and still have them be fun and interesting.

early characterizations on voyager where just bland.