Skyim - Iron Dagger (And I'm going to need your help!)

[Zach Mills]

Hello everyone!

With the holidays approaching, I figured it was about time to launch into a hobby I've been wanting to try for a while now. Prop making! I'm at the point where I can't sit down for an Xbox session, or a Hollywood blockbuster without wanting to create the weapon/armor/mech/insertcoolthinghere that is present on the screen, so I would say it's about time to do something about it!

I've been pretty obsessed with Swords/bladed weapons since I was really young, and I've always wanted to be able to create them. Recently, I've made some 'wall hanger' style swords out of steel I've had lying around, at about http://www.stormthecastle.com/blacksmithing/images/forging-a-sword/the-completed-sword.jpg
this level of detail, none of which took very long, or were very difficult to create. So, I want to try something a bit harder. I'm a huge Skyrim fan (as I assume a lot of people are around here) and so I've decided to try my hand at the Iron Dagger.

It's significantly more detailed than what I've tried before, but I don't think it is too complicated that I won't manage it.

The game plan is as follows.

- Obtain and print high detail images of the iron dagger to scale (possibly vectored if I can find the time to learn how.)
- Cut a blank of the blade (with tang) out of a sheet of steel, with an angle grinder (I would love to forge, but I don't know how, nor do I have the equipment or the money to obtain/build it.)
- Detail the blade.
- Carve the cross guard out of a block of steel
- Carve the hilt out of Pine or the like. (I'll look into the texture when I get to this point.
- Cut the 'rings' on the grip out of steel.
- Carve the pommel.
- Drill holes for pins.
- Create the pins.
- Pin and glue.
- Slice the air to pieces.

Now, I am going to need some help. As well as your general advice, which I would love to hear, I am unsure of the best way to go about creating blueprints. What I think I want to do, is grab snapshots from the game from every angle (absolutely possible via the examination feature in your inventory) and then resize and print them. From there, I can make sure the piece of metal/wood I'm using is big enough on all sides, and I would try to follow the pattern on the high res image.

However, the problem with that is that I don't have Skyrim…. on Computer. This annoyingly makes obtaining images directly from the game a challenge.

So, this is where I need your help. If someone has another idea as to how I can get high res images, let me know. Alternatively, if someone has the time to grab some screenshots for me from their own game, I would be incredibly appreciative.

Thanks for reading!

 

[skyconlb]

For the pics, the best way to do get pics of every angle by yourself is to simply take cellphone pictures, but since you probably want high res, I would either attempt to find the 3d file somewhere, or by a screen-cap device. Its kind of expensive if you buy something like this:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/hauppauge-hd-pvr-2-gaming-edition-for-xbox-360-and-playstation-3/6608353.p?id=1218761710047&skuId=6608353&ref=06&loc=01&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=6608353&extensionType={adtype}:{network}&s_kwcid=PTC!pla!{keyword}!{matchtype}!{adwords_producttargetid}!{network}!{ifmobile:M}!{creative}&kpid=6608353&k_clickid=4eac27d6-359d-08c8-0320-0000198f06ab

People use it to make youtube videos and things, and you can probably easily use it to get some good screencaps. I dont know how well it works, but if you can find one for cheap, it would probably come in handy.

Here is another method:

How to Capture Gameplay from XBOX 360 | Solutions | Epiphan Systems

Its cheaper. Im sure there are some screencaps out there if you look. That is just if you cant find any screencaps, though.

 

[SigsegV]

Here, I took these just now. Not the highest resolution, but they might help a bit:






For the rings on the grip, I'd highly recommend making them out of wire. To help with sizing and such, I suggest you search around the web to see if anyone has any papercraft models of the iron dagger you can make. I know there are full size models of the steel dagger and iron sword floating around out there.

Good luck, I look forwards to seeing your progress on this.

 

[Zach Mills]

For the pics, the best way to do get pics of every angle by yourself is to simply take cellphone pictures, but since you probably want high res, I would either attempt to find the 3d file somewhere, or by a screen-cap device. Its kind of expensive if you buy something like this:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/hauppauge-hd-pvr-2-gaming-edition-for-xbox-360-and-playstation-3/6608353.p?id=1218761710047&skuId=6608353&ref=06&loc=01&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=6608353&extensionType={adtype}:{network}&s_kwcid=PTC!pla!{keyword}!{matchtype}!{adwords_producttargetid}!{network}!{ifmobile:M}!{creative}&kpid=6608353&k_clickid=4eac27d6-359d-08c8-0320-0000198f06ab

People use it to make youtube videos and things, and you can probably easily use it to get some good screencaps. I dont know how well it works, but if you can find one for cheap, it would probably come in handy.

Here is another method:

How to Capture Gameplay from XBOX 360 | Solutions | Epiphan Systems

Its cheaper. Im sure there are some screencaps out there if you look. That is just if you cant find any screencaps, though.

Cheers for the advice. I think a screen capturing tool would definitely be a good investment for the future. All on the christmas list I guess.

I have found a 3D model too, which I'm just about to check out. I'm not sure how detailed it is yet, but hopefully it should be useful.

Here, I took these just now. Not the highest resolution, but they might help a bit:


For the rings on the grip, I'd highly recommend making them out of wire. To help with sizing and such, I suggest you search around the web to see if anyone has any papercraft models of the iron dagger you can make. I know there are full size models of the steel dagger and iron sword floating around out there.

Good luck, I look forwards to seeing your progress on this.

Thanks dude, you're a legend! I couldn't find a paper craft model, and admittedly I think that scaling is going to be a bit fiddly, and I'm determined to be a perfectionist about it. I tried to take some photos with my phone of Lydia modeling it, but her gauntlets got in the way a bit. I'll try again with another follower, and from there I'll scrutinize about it.

As far as the rings go, I would like to try both. The thing about making the rings from steel is that it would give me a nice excuse to chop up the hilt, which would mean I wouldn't have to find a drill bit that fit through the entire thing.

I think that wire would look nicer, but I'm not sure how to connect them. Solder, and sand perhaps? I'll look into it.

Thanks guys!

 

[SigsegV]

You could always make the handle in two halves and chisel out the space for the tang, then glue them together. That's what I've used in the past for making sword of knife handles.

 

[Meadowhawk]

I tried to take some photos with my phone of Lydia modeling it, but her gauntlets got in the way a bit. I'll try again with another follower, and from there I'll scrutinize about it.

Hey Zach,

I'm in the middle of making a Skyrim Steel Sword at the moment, Love this game! For getting the proportions for that and a Dadric Sword ( I've made the blueprints for but not started) I hung them both on a weapons rack in 'Breezehome' in Whiterun (Any weapons rack in game will do). Then I compared to an actual replica sword that I own and scaled the Steel Sword based on its size since they are both a standard long sword design. The Steel sword size was 36 inches because that is my preference for sword length, if your taller then 5'10 you might like a little bigger one. For the Dadric sword, it is larger in game and ended up being 40 inches. I determined that from hanging them both on the wall.

In general swords are sized for the person and I've seen many replicas where a size was an option so I would scale it based on personal preferences. With that said if your about my height you'll probably be happy with applying the 36' size to the Steel Sword then line up a dagger on the rack next to it and get a screen shot. Oh wait your not on PC. I'm at work or I would just do it for ya right now. I'll try to get ya a screen shot tonight unless someone beats me to it!

For designing the blueprints for the dagger on the computer, I would recommend making vector drawings using Inkscape which is free and open source. You can copy the screen shot into the program into a layer and then draw vector paths over it.

Not sure if I explained it very well, feel free to hit me with questions, its one of those things that's easier to show then write up, at least in my case.

 

[Meadowhawk]

Here's those screen shots I snagged, just in case! Hope they help!



With an iron sword as well which is smaller then the steel sword.



and for reference.. (Only had 2 slots on the weapons rack...)

 

[Zach Mills]

Hey Zach,

I'm in the middle of making a Skyrim Steel Sword at the moment, Love this game! For getting the proportions for that and a Dadric Sword ( I've made the blueprints for but not started) I hung them both on a weapons rack in 'Breezehome' in Whiterun (Any weapons rack in game will do). Then I compared to an actual replica sword that I own and scaled the Steel Sword based on its size since they are both a standard long sword design. The Steel sword size was 36 inches because that is my preference for sword length, if your taller then 5'10 you might like a little bigger one. For the Dadric sword, it is larger in game and ended up being 40 inches. I determined that from hanging them both on the wall.

In general swords are sized for the person and I've seen many replicas where a size was an option so I would scale it based on personal preferences. With that said if your about my height you'll probably be happy with applying the 36' size to the Steel Sword then line up a dagger on the rack next to it and get a screen shot. Oh wait your not on PC. I'm at work or I would just do it for ya right now. I'll try to get ya a screen shot tonight unless someone beats me to it!

For designing the blueprints for the dagger on the computer, I would recommend making vector drawings using Inkscape which is free and open source. You can copy the screen shot into the program into a layer and then draw vector paths over it.

Not sure if I explained it very well, feel free to hit me with questions, its one of those things that's easier to show then write up, at least in my case.

Thanks for the advice dude. I've going to follow your suggestion to see what size I get, and then compare it with the size I get from judging it based on how it looks in a followers hand, and ultimately make a judgement call. The iron dagger seems to be large when held by a character than when it is siting on a table/ on a rack, which is annoying. I'll scrutinize. Cheers for the pictures too, that saves me some time.

Given the small scale difference in it, I imagine it will suit my hand size regardless. I'm 6'0, which I think is a tad over Imperials (the most human race) and so I think my hand should cover a slight, slight bit more of the handle than an Imperial's does in game. Nord's seem to be a bit more around 6'25, so I'm ignoring them. I'm going to do a cardboard 'layering' build/mock up thing beforehand to test what I end up sizing it to.

I finished my last exam today, so I intend to get thoroughly tomorrow. I hope that sizing should take no longer than the weekend (including any mod ups) with resizing my other viewpoints and vector drawings taking no longer than 4 days, allowing for time to fiddle with Inkscape, and anything else I get up to (such as catching up on the Walking Dead, which I have ignored while studying.)

After that, I think I could chop a blade blank in an afternoon, and we will see how things go from there. Ideally, I'll have a bit of steel for show by the end of the following weekend with the latest, if all goes according to plan.

Actually, I'll need to figure out a time to go by some steel if what I have lying around isn't large enough. We'll see how things go!

 

[Meadowhawk]

Sounds like a good plan! I've noticed that everything in Skyrim that gets placed on something seems to have a bigger scale... I have written that off as a perspective thing but maybe they intentionally enlarge things that aren't in hand to make it easier to see? Kinda makes since from a game play perspective I guess even if it does drive us a bit bonkers when trying to scale things.

Post some progress pics, it would be cool to see how an actual metal build comes long! My builds are all MDF and Styrene

 

[Zlurpo]

A couple thoughts:

Since you plan to make the dagger out of steel already, if you want to make it fully functional, I suggest you go to a car scrapyard and see if you can pick up a piece of car suspension. It's a very hard, slightly flexible steel that works well for making high quality knives.

Again, if you plan on functionality, look into tempering the knife. Any steel you get will not hold an edge well if you just carve the shape and sharpen it. This involves shaping the knife, putting a very rough edge on it, and then heating it up. Get the blade red hot (not hotter, you don't want orange, yellow, or white, that's too hot and burns out the carbon) and quench it (in olive oil, I think, but research to see what's best). Then sharpen it using tools that won't heat it up too much.

For the handle, if you can find some, use walnut wood instead of pine. It it almost the exact color you want!

 

[Zach Mills]

A couple thoughts:

Since you plan to make the dagger out of steel already, if you want to make it fully functional, I suggest you go to a car scrapyard and see if you can pick up a piece of car suspension. It's a very hard, slightly flexible steel that works well for making high quality knives.

Again, if you plan on functionality, look into tempering the knife. Any steel you get will not hold an edge well if you just carve the shape and sharpen it. This involves shaping the knife, putting a very rough edge on it, and then heating it up. Get the blade red hot (not hotter, you don't want orange, yellow, or white, that's too hot and burns out the carbon) and quench it (in olive oil, I think, but research to see what's best). Then sharpen it using tools that won't heat it up too much.

For the handle, if you can find some, use walnut wood instead of pine. It it almost the exact color you want!

I've wondered a bit about just how functional I would like it to be. I certainly want it to look real, and like it's made from the real materials. I want it to feel real, and I want it theoretically sound real. Ideally, I want it to function like a movie prop would. At some point I do definitely want to start making some more function blades, but not at this point. I will definitely keep that in mind about using car suspension, as I was looking around for blade quality steel for a potential functional blade (spring steel or the like) and I couldn't find anything.

Thanks too for mentioning Walnut. I probably wouldn't have thought about it if you hadn't brought it up. I'll look into availability, though I think it should be readily available here (New Zealand.) My back up will be staining some pine wood, but I think Walnut will look a lot nicer.

Okay, so today I'll figure out scale which shouldn't take an awfully long time. Once I've decided, I'll print the 'face' side out, and cut layers out of cardboard for a quick mock up. If I'm satisfied with that, I'll resize the other viewpoints accordingly. Theoretically, I should be able to transfer a blade pattern on to the steel by about tomorrow afternoon. Assuming of course, that my steel is thick enough.

Things might take a bit longer, as I'm still debating whether or not to watch this doctor who special. Oh well, progress coming soon!

 

[Zach Mills]

Hey, so a bit of an update. I've worked out what size I want it, or, at least, to an extent.

So, I've worked out that I need it to be 96mm at the cross guard, and in order to get it to that size, I made a Photoshop document that width, and then resized my image until it was the exact width of the Photoshop document. To work out the length, I'm going to print out my image, and then measure it by hand.

I've had reasonable experience with photoshop in the past, but I'm feeling like a bit of a noob with it right now. Does anyone know a fast way I can resize something so that it fits specific dimensions?

I left it a bit late today, so I won't get the rest of the image resizing done until tomorrow. I want to start photographing what I'm doing too, but right now I'm really just playing around with paper cutouts. I did make a bit of a moc up, but it was out of this ugly plastic stuff that I had a hard time cutting, and although I wasn't trying to make a masterpiece, What I ended up with looks like an art project from kindergarten. It helped me decide size though, so it did it's job.

Also, based on my resources, I have a feeling my steel isn't going to be thick enough for the blade, based on the way it kind of curves up as it gets closer to the cross guard. I think I could manage a trip to go get some new stuff on Wednesday. (Tuesday US time.)

Until then!

 

[Zach Mills]

Hey y'all!

So, I'm back to working on this.

As you can see in the following picture, the fuller of the blade is raised above the rest of the blade.

And unfortunately, this is a problem. This is the kind of detail that would normally be created by hammering the blade. Now, because I'm working the blade cold, this is obviously not possible. The only way I can think of to create this detail is to start with a piece of metal that is thicker than the blade, and then slowly, painstakingly grinding down the blade around the fuller. I think if I tried to do this with my angle grinder, I would make a mess of it. WIth a file, the process would take hours if not days. Can anyone else think of another way to create this detail? Is this the kind of thing that a dermel would come in handy for?

As a matter of fact, if anyone has any advice for creating the blade, particularly carving the metal, please share. This little dagger has a blade so unlike every other blade I've created. Its not smooth, not flat, and not curvaceous, unlike typical blades of all kinds.