ROTJ Fabricated Scopes

[GCLAMBERT89]

I have a feeling the front part of the scope may come from a cut down plastic film cannister. The dimensions differentiate slightly from manufacturer but on average are about 33-35mm diameter, which is what I approximated when I used photogrammetry techniques to 3d model the scope.

 

[scottjua]

View attachment 1455567

I have a feeling the front part of the scope may come from a cut down plastic film cannister. The dimensions differentiate slightly from manufacturer but on average are about 33-35mm diameter, which is what I approximated when I used photogrammetry techniques to 3d model the scope.

that's what I've been saying for years... seems to go under the radar.

 

[GCLAMBERT89]

that's what I've been saying for years... seems to go under the radar.

The trick is to find one with no symbols or lettering underneath. Unfortunately many of them that I find on ebay or google don't exhibit the seam line, but they do have the dimple at the center.

 

[scottjua]

The sad thing is I used to have thousands of these sitting around...

 

[GCLAMBERT89]

The sad thing is I used to have thousands of these sitting around...

My grandmother has many of them, I am going to go raid her house.

 

[thd9791]

4 shots of the real scope that apparently was the "master" for the lathed pieces of delrin

and 1 shot of a completely fabricated one

 

[GCLAMBERT89]

4 shots of the real scope that apparently was the "master" for the lathed pieces of delrin
View attachment 1456190 View attachment 1456191 View attachment 1456192 View attachment 1456193

and 1 shot of a completely fabricated one
View attachment 1456189

So was the delrin scopes black or white? In the photo with the boba helmet, there was a scope on the shelf to the right of the photo that had paint peeling off, underneath it the plastic was white. Perhaps the had some made in white and others in black?

 

[thd9791]

So was the delrin scopes black or white? In the photo with the boba helmet, there was a scope on the shelf to the right of the photo that had paint peeling off, underneath it the plastic was white. Perhaps the had some made in white and others in black?

I think so. Acetal does come in black and white, so this may very well be the case

 

[thd9791]

So, I have some good leads that I'm trying to work out. I don't want to make any big posts until I figure out if they're any good - there hasn't been a whole lot of community hunting on this one, so I understand it's really mostly my project

First off, here are some really good views on the reported (thank you The 48th Ronin ) thicker acetal scope parts. Whoever made these, like he said, made the scope tube large enough to properly fit the scope ring. Here you can see the cap sliding off, revealing the true diameter of the fabricated part.

I believed it of course, but never actually saw it yet and I didn't realize they lathed the bevel down to almost 7/8 and then made the tube itself 1 inch... or they truncated the bevel at 1 inch and the scope ring is tucked against the change, hiding it.

I'm also thinking that the lines on the face and side of the cap were scribed in order to drill holes in it. I mean.. it looks like part of the injection molding marks..

but here you can see just the little dash and no vertical line. That "x" would be where you could drill for the scope tip, but on the other side

I have a picture or two from my phone I need to upload too, hold that thought

 

[thd9791]

So, going by the one found part we know of (this is the only one I have and I molded it actually this year) I also am of the camp that film canisters were used. Modern ones are a HAIR smaller than the cap used in Return of the Jedi

The bottom edge is too round too. Anyway, Ive been digging through old brands and have only found 1 vintage one with a completely flat bottom and no dimple, and modern ones that are flat with a dimple but have rounded edges. They must have been cheap, think about all those stormtrooper extras

Anyway, the Field Marshall scope is a hair smaller as well, check out the scale of the knob


And that makes sense, its exactly the diameter of these modern kodak canisters that are also a hair smaller

Were talking 1 mm, maybe 2 to give you an idea of how small the difference is.

If anyone finds the right ones, please let me know and PLEASE keep these from scalpers. Private Message me if you have to. These are obsolete junk, worth pennies and I really dont want this hunt to go that route

 

[thd9791]

So, i have good news and bad news.

I dont believe, at this point, they used any other parts from the japanese scopes.

Ive had 3 different ones pass through my hands and all of them had the same type of adjustment knob set up. I don't know about the actual 4x20s though - im assuning since this 3x7x20 is built using the 4x20 base

The knob set up is entirely injection molded with a knurled cylindrical screw. A tiny ball bearing, held in with a spring clip, snaps into each knurl - letting you set your adjustment without it unscrewing. Pretty genius if you ask me.

So I guess its just the caps... but I swear I remember seeing a scope with a brass dial marker somewhere.

Either way, the real screw is countersunk so the bushing has to be and that seems really easy to machine.. especially if they made brass bits for the stembridge blaster mount and all the Delrin pieces

 

[thd9791]

So..... look what I did folks!

I tackled the front of the scope. I'd already sculpted 3-4 mystery chunks using a triangular file, so I figured this was something I could do. I used a crappy Chinese cutting disc (because of how thin they are) to make guidelines on some of my vintage screws. . They were enough to anchor some triangular files and I made all 5 cuts.

The plastic cap was easy to drill. I was very gentle, doing a 1/16 pilot hole and then a 5/16 (I think) which ended up being just the right size to tap the screw into the cap. That was a mistake but its much more secure.

I estimated the size of the screw face, and then from there, estimated how big the brass bit had to be. I did not have brass stock, so I scrounged up some of my cool old electronic parts. This was a push switch from the 50s (?) , and it had a riveted brass tube on it. The inner diameter of the tube was a little wider than I wanted, but it was the right outer diameter. Sliced some coins with a cut-off wheel, and filed them to level them. I had to use pliers to hold it for countersinking, all my vices are rather deep. I made a couple, so I locked them onto a bolt/nut like a sandwich and spun them in the drill press... hit them with a metal file together, and got the edges beveled too.

I think... I think I nailed this one

 

[eethan]

pretty cool! nicelly done, I need to try it too

 

[Bradberry00]

If anyone finds the right ones, please let me know and PLEASE keep these from scalpers. Private Message me if you have to. These are obsolete junk, worth pennies and I really dont want this hunt to go that route

Unfortunately, the handful of greedy people in this hobby always have a way of making this happen.......I give it a couple months and we will see a junkyard post "VERY RARE Correct Vintage Screen Accurate ROTJ Scope Cap 35mm Film Canister $100"

I work at an art college and we get donations occasionally of old photography gear (80's-90s stuff mostly)...ill keep an eye peeled for you.

 

[thd9791]

These film canisters seem to be just the right size, but theyre missing the manufacturing ring on the bottom. The edges are also a little more round than the props, so VERY close but no direct match.

Also found a scope that is not an inch but has the right objective bell, with the retaining ring on the edge. Its listed as a 3/4 scope but the tube is a little thicker. Interestingly enough, the prop is a little larger than 3/4 too!

 

[thd9791]

I mean, they're not exact matches, so I went ahead and used a utility knife to bore a hole. How did I find where to do it?

I used a ruler and accidentally made the exact same lines as on the prop.

And the wall is a little thicker than you'd think, so I ended up tapping the screw into the wall of the canister

Also, this scope has a joint right after the objective bell, just like the prop. However the retaining ring inside is grooved, and I don't remember seeing that. There is a glossy version of this scope that might be different

 

[thd9791]

Not resin/definitely not "fake" - it was a second set of Bapty-made parts that were sent to Stembridge for the live fire ROTJ Han blaster. The flash hider was machined aluminum, the scope bracket was white Delrin, the mounting screws and spacers were brass, the piston halves were machined black Delrin, and the small plate to cover the Mauser logo on the left side was aluminum.

The scope was as you described - machined black Delrin rear bell w/ a shaft that fit the scope ring (no spacer), plastic cap front that was pop riveted to the Delrin shaft, scope adjustment knob cap for the small knurled cap on the front. And I'll be damned... I always wondered what the hell that thing was in the tip - definitely a steel screw.

View attachment 1365752

Hey, so I just had a thought and was wondering if I could ask a question

I was sitting around thinking about the source of these front caps, and I was curious if Brandon knew that those parts were specifically from the Star Wars model shops or that the gun rental places made them.

I mean, the brass threaded bits were made for the stembridge gun which was rented and you'd think they would take control of that. The idea of them being film canisters makes sense if they were from a film production, but if the firearm place milled the brackets (and then, possibly the rear of the scopes) then maybe there are other areas to search for parts.

I may have already asked this and I apologize if I have

 

[The 48th Ronin]

I dunno - you'd have to ask Brandon.

As far as I know all of the parts came from Bapty in the UK. That's where it all started, after all - they provided all of the guns for the first film, so that set the precedent. And then of course they were also involved on ESB and ROTJ when the productions were filming in the UK.

When live-fire guns were needed during location shooting in Northern California that fell to Stembridge Gun Rentals in LA, so Bapty sent the parts to them. As Brandon told me, they sent two sets of parts but Stembridge only built out one live-fire gun - the other set of parts got thrown into a box. That's how Prop Store acquired them at auction when Stembridge went out of business.

 

[thd9791]

I tested this scope on my existing ROTJ blaster.

(My blaster needs more accurate paint maybe, it is an accurized denix and I learned more about the blaster after I made this)

On the latest screenshots I posted, it was clear to me this was a 7/8 scope, which is what I guessed a few years ago.

I made a spacer thats too perfect, the real prop can slide deeper into the scope ring

Also the front cap (only on the blasters with real scope parts) must have had a washer in the rivet to raise it up to the level of the 1" ring.

 

[thd9791]

I dunno - you'd have to ask Brandon.

As far as I know all of the parts came from Bapty in the UK. That's where it all started, after all - they provided all of the guns for the first film, so that set the precedent. And then of course they were also involved on ESB and ROTJ when the productions were filming in the UK.

When live-fire guns were needed during location shooting in Northern California that fell to Stembridge Gun Rentals in LA, so Bapty sent the parts to them. As Brandon told me, they sent two sets of parts but Stembridge only built out one live-fire gun - the other set of parts got thrown into a box. That's how Prop Store acquired them at auction when Stembridge went out of business.

Thank you so much!