Robby the Robot...I'm confused
- Thread starter Luuke
- Start date
Yup, all that pseudo legal mumbo jumbo is just that. That isn't TW talking. It's FB. No one is under any obligation to do something just because they're on a lawyer's letterhead. Only a judge can make you do something.
At the time the staff's decision was not based on FB having a leg to stand on. It was based on whether he could be a nuisance. It was decided it was easier to just play along. I understood such decisions (there was at least one other such situation while I was on staff) but didn't agree with them, and they still make me sick to my stomach.
(But have to concede *I* ain't payin' no lawyers to prove our case.)
At the time the staff's decision was not based on FB having a leg to stand on. It was based on whether he could be a nuisance. It was decided it was easier to just play along. I understood such decisions (there was at least one other such situation while I was on staff) but didn't agree with them, and they still make me sick to my stomach.
(But have to concede *I* ain't payin' no lawyers to prove our case.)
Sourdoh
Sr Member
Konar's take on this is absolutely correct. The C&D letter is just a threat, couched in legal terms from a lawyer. It is trying to make the threat seem like it is holy writ and sanctioned by the law. It is just baseless wolfing by the so-called "license holder"(S-CLH). Remeber, a C&D letter is usually a ploy to get you to "volunteer" to C&D what you are doing!
However, any use of images of the S-CLH's property, or his proprietary plans or information would be his, if he has a copyright on the specific items in question. Images from the film? He has no control over them. Anyone making a model, or full-sized Robby (OMG, I said it!!) for their own use (and not for sale) would be perfectly all right. Publishing information or plans for a Robby project not directly connected to the infamous S-CLH would also be OK. I see no reason to form a club. Just make general information available to whomever is interested in making a Robby for themselves.
Oh, and wearing a Robby costume to a Con as a personal costume would be OK as well.
Commander Max
Sr Member
By that I would assume we can't make anything "ROBBY®" but what about Robby the robot? Clearly that document wasn't drawn up by an attorney. The subject needs to be clearly defined.
If we went by the this sort of thing, they would have shut down any message that had to do with props.
What would stop anybody from doing this(I think I said that the last time)?
WarPig
Master Member
Doesn't what Robert Day posted complete negate everything that's said in Robot's post?
Meh. Ah, I'll stick to my B9. By the time I get around to wanting to build a "R****®" maybe this fog will clear.
I *will* subscribe to any "R****®" threads, unless enjoyment of "R****®" is expressly prohibited...
Meh. Ah, I'll stick to my B9. By the time I get around to wanting to build a "R****®" maybe this fog will clear.
I *will* subscribe to any "R****®" threads, unless enjoyment of "R****®" is expressly prohibited...
Robot
Active Member
I would have to take a neutral stand on FB's position, and the correspondence he had with me is below. I guess it comes down to, all of us have to make a living and this is his.
In a nutshell, no, I do not want to be involved with a Robby Builders Club – quite the contrary and I’ll tell you why. First, I appreciate your email and I am going to tell you like it is…. It’s not up to me to mind or have an interest or not about you or other builders/fans making a Robby and/or forming a Robby Builders Club, or publishing your work and progress on your own web-site or sharing information, it’s Warner Bros. Legal. They have the problem and they are the ones that will mind and stop you and go after you. They are the intellectual copyright holders. They own Robby and “Forbidden Planet”. They are investing millions in the remake. They do not want their property diluted with how-to information, unauthorized pictures of Robby, especially in his component form as Robby is their copyrighted property. Legally, they will come after you and close the club, not me. They have to protect their copyright and Trademark. They also have to protect me and my license from this kind of thing as well. I pay them for a license to do what builders want to do for free. Even though you/builders may have no intentions on selling, your actions and especially a club are still infringement and by making your knowledge public, or by selling component parts you are encouraging more infringement and possibly others selling Robby or parts, creating even more infringement. And for some reason, people think that this is a perfectly acceptable way for others who cannot afford a Robby to have one. It is not. Just because people cannot afford to buy a legal licensed replica, does not make it okay to form a club, devalue my work, and my license, and create a vast number of people who will sell pirated parts and Robby’s.
I make my living making and selling Robby. I have a family to feed and we depend on selling Robby’s for that income. I have hundreds of thousands of dollars invested in my license and tooling of Robby and as you know, I have a huge history both restoring the original Robby and keeping him alive in the public eye for over 35 years. I just think it is morally wrong, (and legally) to infringe on my livelihood and all my hard work. It is your hobby, but it is my family’s life. Many people think I’m a jerk because I protect my investment and work. I wonder how’d they feel if I went after their livelihoods.
My advice to you is if are going to make your own Robby is to keep it PRIVATE. -- Off the web entirely. No Twitter, Facebook, clubs, etc…. You don’t want the legal weight and infinite pockets of AOL/Time Warner breathing down your neck and I’m sure you don’t want to mess with another man’s living. I have seen Warner Bros. shut down many infringers on other properties they own and they don’t mess around. I don’t believe it is worth the risk. The fines and legal fees are huge and some even go to jail. They monitor the web and this stuff is flagged all the time. They have a staff just looking for this kind of stuff.
Why not build a B9 or R2 and document that? Those clubs are endorsed by their respective copyright holders. Robby is not.
Please read the statement below: It may be useful to you.
Good luck in all you do.
Best,
Fred Barton
In a nutshell, no, I do not want to be involved with a Robby Builders Club – quite the contrary and I’ll tell you why. First, I appreciate your email and I am going to tell you like it is…. It’s not up to me to mind or have an interest or not about you or other builders/fans making a Robby and/or forming a Robby Builders Club, or publishing your work and progress on your own web-site or sharing information, it’s Warner Bros. Legal. They have the problem and they are the ones that will mind and stop you and go after you. They are the intellectual copyright holders. They own Robby and “Forbidden Planet”. They are investing millions in the remake. They do not want their property diluted with how-to information, unauthorized pictures of Robby, especially in his component form as Robby is their copyrighted property. Legally, they will come after you and close the club, not me. They have to protect their copyright and Trademark. They also have to protect me and my license from this kind of thing as well. I pay them for a license to do what builders want to do for free. Even though you/builders may have no intentions on selling, your actions and especially a club are still infringement and by making your knowledge public, or by selling component parts you are encouraging more infringement and possibly others selling Robby or parts, creating even more infringement. And for some reason, people think that this is a perfectly acceptable way for others who cannot afford a Robby to have one. It is not. Just because people cannot afford to buy a legal licensed replica, does not make it okay to form a club, devalue my work, and my license, and create a vast number of people who will sell pirated parts and Robby’s.
I make my living making and selling Robby. I have a family to feed and we depend on selling Robby’s for that income. I have hundreds of thousands of dollars invested in my license and tooling of Robby and as you know, I have a huge history both restoring the original Robby and keeping him alive in the public eye for over 35 years. I just think it is morally wrong, (and legally) to infringe on my livelihood and all my hard work. It is your hobby, but it is my family’s life. Many people think I’m a jerk because I protect my investment and work. I wonder how’d they feel if I went after their livelihoods.
My advice to you is if are going to make your own Robby is to keep it PRIVATE. -- Off the web entirely. No Twitter, Facebook, clubs, etc…. You don’t want the legal weight and infinite pockets of AOL/Time Warner breathing down your neck and I’m sure you don’t want to mess with another man’s living. I have seen Warner Bros. shut down many infringers on other properties they own and they don’t mess around. I don’t believe it is worth the risk. The fines and legal fees are huge and some even go to jail. They monitor the web and this stuff is flagged all the time. They have a staff just looking for this kind of stuff.
Why not build a B9 or R2 and document that? Those clubs are endorsed by their respective copyright holders. Robby is not.
Please read the statement below: It may be useful to you.
Good luck in all you do.
Best,
Fred Barton
wannab
Sr Member
Bah! :thumbsdown
I may just have to start a build and show it off!
BTW, starting a club won't hurt any of Fred potential business (which is what has to be proved). As a matter of fact if he were to throw an ad up on any such site I'd bet big money he'd get more sales as visitors would love to have one but be incapable of building one -- short sided on his part. As to anyone who would join such a club, they wouldn't lay out a lump sum to get Fred's Robby (too expensive and not as accurate as club members would want) so no loss to Fred. Start a club, create specs, personal builds all okay. No one would be selling replicas so no problem there (see R2 club) parts okay full builds or kits no-no. Use of copyrighted material (screen grabs etc.) off limits unless in satirical situations. Using the name Robby is borderline maybe just create a Robert builders club. Hell if anyone in the UK wanted, they could do anything no restrictions (see AA case) and stiff all concerned.
If Fred was smart he'd embrace the idea and market the hell out of it. Heck, (if he expanded his WB agreement) he could even start one himself. Hell he'd probably make a ton more just cranking out parts! More folks could buy it a piece at a time rather than one huge purchase (see R2 or 3PO or Vader or... well you get the gist).
Fred & WB = short sighted. They need to look at the Lucasfilm model in regards to this.
Doug
I may just have to start a build and show it off!
BTW, starting a club won't hurt any of Fred potential business (which is what has to be proved). As a matter of fact if he were to throw an ad up on any such site I'd bet big money he'd get more sales as visitors would love to have one but be incapable of building one -- short sided on his part. As to anyone who would join such a club, they wouldn't lay out a lump sum to get Fred's Robby (too expensive and not as accurate as club members would want) so no loss to Fred. Start a club, create specs, personal builds all okay. No one would be selling replicas so no problem there (see R2 club) parts okay full builds or kits no-no. Use of copyrighted material (screen grabs etc.) off limits unless in satirical situations. Using the name Robby is borderline maybe just create a Robert builders club. Hell if anyone in the UK wanted, they could do anything no restrictions (see AA case) and stiff all concerned.
If Fred was smart he'd embrace the idea and market the hell out of it. Heck, (if he expanded his WB agreement) he could even start one himself. Hell he'd probably make a ton more just cranking out parts! More folks could buy it a piece at a time rather than one huge purchase (see R2 or 3PO or Vader or... well you get the gist).
Fred & WB = short sighted. They need to look at the Lucasfilm model in regards to this.
Doug
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What if people started a group to build a replica of the robot from The Twilight Zone Episode "Uncle Simon" He looked a little something like this
Commander Max
Sr Member
Not unlike studio models, I'm sure WB could care less about Robby. There are far more famous props that have been done to death, by guys who didn't pay a thing to produce them. Did the studios do anything? Nope, there isn't any money in it for them. They want what's right now, who cares about something made 50+ years ago. Besides the original Robby(regardless of it's value) was considered disposable by the studio. Which was one reason they let it be on display in the Movieworld museum in the first place.
Barton is crazy thinking his prop is worth more than it is.
And he is even crazier not to offer parts, which means someone else will offer the parts regardless of any nonsense threats he can make. Which will mean he looses the money he could have captured.
I will be the first(on this thread) to call him a flippen hypocrite.
He sells the following parts to the B-9 robot.
Bubble and bottom plate
Crown
Brain
Finger lights
Radar section
Collar
Torso
Torso Hooks
Neon
Neon backplate
Arm, wrist and claw
Donut
Legs(vintage & reproduction)
Knees(vintage & reproduction)
Treadsection
Wheels and belts
Or look here
The B9 Robot Builders Club
And he sells stuff for other robots as well.
He knows damn well he would make money offering Robby parts. I guess the real question is, what's the right approach to get Robby parts from him.
That's the way the rest of the guys in the hobby work. Find out what he wants and seek a trade.
Barton is crazy thinking his prop is worth more than it is.
And he is even crazier not to offer parts, which means someone else will offer the parts regardless of any nonsense threats he can make. Which will mean he looses the money he could have captured.
I will be the first(on this thread) to call him a flippen hypocrite.
He sells the following parts to the B-9 robot.
Bubble and bottom plate
Crown
Brain
Finger lights
Radar section
Collar
Torso
Torso Hooks
Neon
Neon backplate
Arm, wrist and claw
Donut
Legs(vintage & reproduction)
Knees(vintage & reproduction)
Treadsection
Wheels and belts
Or look here
The B9 Robot Builders Club
And he sells stuff for other robots as well.
He knows damn well he would make money offering Robby parts. I guess the real question is, what's the right approach to get Robby parts from him.
That's the way the rest of the guys in the hobby work. Find out what he wants and seek a trade.
Chrisisall
Master Member
I guess I'm not understanding here how some dude selling a hand-painted poster of "Robby TM" hurts his business. Is someone really gonna decide not to purchase a $20,000 replica because they found a $200 picture somewhere?? :confused
WarPig
Master Member
Yeah, I'm in the same boat: if I could get parts and make my own, I would. I don't have $20K (or more) to drop on a single prop. But if I bought it (to quote the late, great Johnny Cash) "one piece at a time", it would support the parts maker and I'd have an "Arrrby D'Robot" that I could watch take form as I built it.
As I said earlier, I'm acquiring an "official" B-9 kit (from an RPF member), and I know that he's upgradable. And being built by me, I'll have fun, get a sense of accomplishment, and be able to upgrade or customize as I see fit.
Maybe at some point the tide will shift so the property owners see the positive side of offering parts and/or plans. Until then, I *will* enjoy my B-9.
There's a bunch of Robbie 3d models available on line. Would it take a lot for someone to make a pepakura file out of one?
Dan
Dan
wannab
Sr Member
Commander Max
Sr Member
Ditto.
Chrisisall
Master Member
Or a Robotoid one...:lol
