Revenge of the Sith Climactic Lightsaber Duel - 5 Years Later

[Nwerke]

Five years later, it doesn't wow me like it did at first. It's come to feel more superficial as the new has worn off the PT in general and I realize that I'm having trouble believing in these characters.

You've come a long way, Luke.

Couldn't agree more with both your comments on page 3! Adywan's version is enough of a travesty for anyone, surely, hehe. Inflicting modern pacing on the OT would be a crime against art worse even than the SEs. And that music - glad I'm not alone there, really. It would have been quite decent as the score for the final duel, but there just wasn't that much at stake for TPM, so what was the deal? It was apocalyptic.

 

[ihs]

...but there just wasn't that much at stake for TPM, so what was the deal? It was apocalyptic.

Not much at stake?

If Maul had killed Obi and Qui-Gon, he would have moved on and captured and likely killed the queen as well, assuming she wouldn't go quietly. No queen Amidala = no Luke/Leia.

Edited to add: should have mentioned that this entire post should be read with a attitude; I'm just having fun with a "what-if" scenario and am in no way trying to be confrontational. Just a boring morning here at work!

 

[Solo4114]

Not much at stake?

If Maul had killed Obi and Qui-Gon, he would have moved on and captured and likely killed the queen as well, assuming she wouldn't go quietly. No queen Amidala = no Luke/Leia.

Edited to add: should have mentioned that this entire post should be read with a attitude; I'm just having fun with a "what-if" scenario and am in no way trying to be confrontational. Just a boring morning here at work!

I think the point is more that the "war" in TPM is just some small-scale local dispute. It's only the behind-the-scenes machinations of Sidious/Palpatine/The Future Emperor, and the whole "This is how everyone first met" thing that makes TPM at all important story-wise.

Frankly, I've always thought TPM was a waste of a movie in that sense. It didn't really "Fit" as part of the PT. You could've covered the events of TPM in a 5-minute bit of dialogue between Anakin and Obi-Wan.

"Man, I can't wait to see the queen."

"You've been sweet on her ever since we rescued her when the Trade Federation tried to take over Naboo."

"So? She was hot back then, too!"

"Haha yeah, but she still just sees you as that little nine year old who needs his blankie in the cold cargo hold."

"Shut up, ass! I wouldn't have even been there if it hadn't been for YOUR teacher -- who by the way, you let DIE at the hands of that sith dude -- claiming I'm the Chosen One and snatching me off of Tatooine!"

"...yeah....I miss Qui-Gon."

"Yeah. He was pretty bad-ass."

"Yeah."

 

[MooMooEgg]

I think the point is more that the "war" in TPM is just some small-scale local dispute. It's only the behind-the-scenes machinations of Sidious/Palpatine/The Future Emperor, and the whole "This is how everyone first met" thing that makes TPM at all important story-wise.

Frankly, I've always thought TPM was a waste of a movie in that sense. It didn't really "Fit" as part of the PT. You could've covered the events of TPM in a 5-minute bit of dialogue between Anakin and Obi-Wan.

"Man, I can't wait to see the queen."

"You've been sweet on her ever since we rescued her when the Trade Federation tried to take over Naboo."

"So? She was hot back then, too!"

"Haha yeah, but she still just sees you as that little nine year old who needs his blankie in the cold cargo hold."

"Shut up, ass! I wouldn't have even been there if it hadn't been for YOUR teacher -- who by the way, you let DIE at the hands of that sith dude -- claiming I'm the Chosen One and snatching me off of Tatooine!"

"...yeah....I miss Qui-Gon."

"Yeah. He was pretty bad-ass."

"Yeah."

I always thought the same thing. But instead of starting off the PT at the beginning of episode II, can you imagine if the start of the PT just dropped us into a slightly modified version of the Duel of the Fates with Anakin present to establish Qui-Gon wanting Obi to train Anakin, then flash forward the 10 years to the beginning of AOTC?

That would have been an awesome way to start the PT, IMO.

 

[Darth Detroit]

I always thought the same thing. But instead of starting off the PT at the beginning of episode II, can you imagine if the start of the PT just dropped us into a slightly modified version of the Duel of the Fates with Anakin present to establish Qui-Gon wanting Obi to train Anakin, then flash forward the 10 years to the beginning of AOTC?

That would have been an awesome way to start the PT, IMO.

It would have been perfect if Lucas never numbered them to begin with.

 

[Nwerke]

Not much at stake?

If Maul had killed Obi and Qui-Gon, he would have moved on and captured and likely killed the queen as well, assuming she wouldn't go quietly. No queen Amidala = no Luke/Leia.

Star Wars had already been made, therefore Luke and Leia existed. Darth Small can do what he likes...yawn. (Heh, there was only one actual Star Wars movie, it was called Star Wars and it came out in 1977. Since then there's been a lot of Imperial propaganda in circulation - some of it even masquerading as further movies, but lord, they're crazy - if you believed some of this stuff then you'd go around thinking that instead of betraying and murdering Luke's father, Darth Vader WAS his father. And that every single word Ben said to Luke was a lie. Bad stuff man, I'm telling you.)

Edited to add: should have mentioned that this entire post should be read with a attitude; I'm just having fun with a "what-if" scenario and am in no way trying to be confrontational. Just a boring morning here at work!

It's all good! :thumbsup In case you can't tell, I'm doing the same thing.

Solo, I love your version.

DD, he didn't.

 

[Tom Starkiller]

Lucas seemd to have some great ideas that he abandoned. For example:

Qui-Gon originally survived TPM and HE was Count Dooku/Seperatist leader in Eps II and III. That would have worked so much better. It would have tied TPM to the rest of the prequel, it could have given some emotional depth to Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon's characters.

As for 'mood sabers', I like the concept, but don't think it exists in the canon universe. Looks lightsaber seeming white again on Hoth could have been because of the snowy background washing out the colour. In ANH, I think it was just that Lucas didn't add colour to the sabers until the last minute, so some shots were missed. I believe that this was partially rectified in the SE, although his saber did turn green at one point. :/

 

[MooMooEgg]

Lucas seemd to have some great ideas that he abandoned. For example:

Qui-Gon originally survived TPM and HE was Count Dooku/Seperatist leader in Eps II and III. That would have worked so much better. It would have tied TPM to the rest of the prequel, it could have given some emotional depth to Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon's characters.

Ohh, that would have been interesting. cry:cry

 

[Jeyl]

When Qui-Gon was mentioned at the end of the film by Yoda, everyone in the theater kind of muffled like "Oh man! We're gona see Qui-Gon! I miss that guy!". I know I did. Just the sight and sound of Liam Neeson in almost any movie is enough to make anything better, but no.

 

[Mercury]

Personally I liked the saber play in the PT. To me it was a time where the skill with a saber was taught extensively by trained people at an early age. This training coupled with their highly trained force abilities that allowed their reflexes to be super human/alien with a precognitive sense to know where an opponents blade is and where it's going that allowed that fast ballet of moves. It had flair and in a sense showed the Jedi when they were at their height of power.

Now taking into account the PT, which we now have to, while nothing can compare to that one dramatic moment in RotJ where Vader taunts Luke about not hiding his feelings for his sister and in so doing, sparked Luke's ferocious attack, the saber play in the OT was great at the time but Luke was nowhere near the skill of the earlier Jedis and Vader looked to have gotten quite rusty from not having used a saber in 20 years. What I come away with RotJ now is Luke's strength in the Force and the Light Side is what allowed him to defeat Vader as well as somewhere in Vader's crispy creme heart was Anakin seeing his son and realizing all that he had lost by going to the Dark Side.

Now I know most won't agree, but it works for me to make sense of the whole story.

 

[OldKen]

Wow. The saber being red actually instantly seems better. IDK if my mind is just programmed to think red=sith but that seriously feels more "right".

 

[Solo4114]

In general, I would agree, except that what's on screen comes across as decidedly choreographed rather than actually practical and purposeful (IE: in terms of defeating your enemy).

TPM's sabre work was probably the best because while it was flashy, it also at least seemed somewhat practical, given the threats they faced. The twirly stuff worked fine if you're trying to deflect a constant barrage of blaster bolts.

The trouble with the sabrework against another sabre-wielding opponent is that the weapons dictate certain angles of attack. Even with an omni-directional blade, you still aren't going to do stupid stuff like spin the thing behind your back or do a pirouette, yet that stuff is ALL OVER the prequels. Sure, it looks flashy to have this whizzing blade, but what's the point? Luke's little pirouette in ESB only really happens once, and it's not that big a deal. Noticeable, but a momentary conceit for the sake of the flashy. The PT, by contrast, is laden with that kind of pointless -- no, SUICIDAL -- stuff.

Claiming that it's because of superhuman reflexes doesn't really help either, because they're only facing off against other opponents with equally superhuman reflexes. And I'm sorry, but spinning your sabre behind your back to switch to a left-hand grip leaves YOUR ENTIRE FRONT EXPOSED TO ATTACK AGAINST AN OPPONENT WITH SUPERHUMAN REFLEXES when you could just...you know...keep the blade in front and simply swing with yuor left hand.

Like I said, the spins make more sense vs. a blaster. But against another opponent with a blade? Not so much.


To me, the final fight, after the control room sequence (which does seem genuinely intense and lethal) comes across like those old kung-fu-theater movies where the fighting was more just flashy dancing than fighting. Hit-hit-hit-PAUSEFOREFFECT-hit-hit-hit-POSE, etc.

Now, I also recognize that real sword play is often a somewhat duller affair. FAR closer to Obi-Wan vs Vader in Star Wars. So I don't necessarily need my movies to be 100% faithful recreations of actual sword-play.

But to me, the sword play looks like "And hit and one and two and crouch and four and five and block-seven-eight-hold-it-aaaaaand BACKFLIP! Wait, stop, stop. Cheryl, what was THAT? You look like a pregnant cow. Now come on. Let's try this again. From the top girls aaaand...."

It's just dancing. Pretty, flashy dancing, sure, but not swordplay.

 

[Solo4114]

Wow. The saber being red actually instantly seems better. IDK if my mind is just programmed to think red=sith but that seriously feels more "right".

It also helps make the fight a LOT clearer because you can distinguish which blade is which. With all the twirly-spinny-flashy stuff in the fight, it kind of can look like just a mishmash of blades with no clear sense of who's swinging what at whom when.

 

[cayman shen]

Ohh, that would have been interesting. cry:cry

Aaarrggggh, that would have been so much more interesting. Qui-gon was the best thing about TPM. And though I like Dooku, he was just kinda tacked on. And speaking of tacked on, Qui-gon at the end of ROTS?! It was just kind of thrown in there...they couldn't even CG a force ghost or something? Couldn't afford Neeson's rates? Lame.

I like the blue on blue fight. I never had trouble distinguishing, not even a little. And the matching re-inforced that they're from the same side.

 

[Solo4114]

I thought they'd intended to, but he'd busted himself up in some car/motorcycle accident or somesuch.

 

[Veedox]

Don't know what duel you are talking about?

For me, there aren't any movies that accurately depict the events that happened before "Star Wars"

 

[Sluis Van Shipyards]

Not true, Anakin is stronger but Obi Wan is better trained. Hence the even duel. That's even how GL describes it.

Where did he ever say that? If he was that much stronger Obi Wan couldn't have held against Anakin's Force push. Anakin would have overpowered him.

 

[GeneralFROSTY]

I'm a little more objective now than I was when these movies came out and I have to admit that the emotional key was really missed as to how/why the duel started in the first place which to me, really steals away the impact of the duel no matter how neat it looks.
Yes, very choreographed, lengthy and action-packed. But was all that necessary?
The lightsaber duel between Luke and Vader in Jedi was far better because the emotional narrative was stronger - there was no need for fancy choreography to tell a gripping story.

 

[Vaderman]

Where did he ever say that? If he was that much stronger Obi Wan couldn't have held against Anakin's Force push. Anakin would have overpowered him.

I would agree that Obi-Wan was more in tune and could do more, with less.
Something else I forgot to mention that always bugs me is that the sabers produce no interactive light.
Actually, I think there have been a few shots but generally they don't which seems like a huge oversight.
Seems like you would see the blades reflected in their eyes, glowing on their faces, etc.

 

[Nwerke]

Don't know what duel you are talking about?

For me, there aren't any movies that accurately depict the events that happened before "Star Wars"

AMEN BRUTHA!!! :lol