Resin?

[burak575]

Hi everyone, I am new to here. I've seen some people doing Halo armors, Iron man armors using a program called papekura. I like the method of building computer 3d models to real life objects. I am interested in this. But I have a problem...

Every project uses different resins for strengthening. Like, a guy called indy mogul used "Aqua Resin". I found it's equivalent is called "Jesmonite" in UK. Some people say "Smooth Cast 300" is good and some guy said Aqua Resin is just copy of "Forton MG" and some other guy said epoxy is best but toxic.

I searched all over internet and found lots of types of resins. All of them have different characteristics. Different brand names, different packing. Unfortunately those stuff like "aqua resin", or "jasmonite" or "smooth cast" doesn't available here. And shipping them to here is very problematic, because delivery cost and customs regulation. But I found lots of companies here producing "resin". But don't know which is most suitable for these kind of jobs.

My question is basically what is those stuff called? I can't find good information about those stuff in their website. Also one another problem is those are only brand names. But every brand has lots of different products. And those guys doesn't mentioned what product they used.

I searched for information but all the time I get lost in plastics, polymers and lots of chemistry stuff. Lost my self. Lost my identity. I got frustrated. And my brain is near edge of exploding... :confused


My questions:

What are those stuff called?
What is inside them?
What are their chemical name?
What are they based on?
Where they used other than prop making?
Is any kind of "resin" works?
What keywords can I use to search those stuff?
What is chemistry behind them?
How can I find correct resin easily?
What should I say to salesperson to get correct thing?
How those stuff are different than other "resins"?

I don't know but most of the answers maybe available on the label of those products.. If so and you have those products, can you send a high resolution picture of label? Or if you are experienced and know answers or know a guide for me to find correct product, please It will very appreciated...

Also making a guide from these questions and answers is maybe a good idea and I thing something like that should be sticky post.

 

[OdiWan72]

I´m not going to answer all of your questions, but I tell you who will...one of the sales/ service people of the different companies, which offer "mold-making and casting materials"

Smooth-on might not be the "best" option for many people, but it surely offers a wide range of products that fit pretty much any thinkable need.

Your best option would be to search a local distributor (for UK, check: http://www.bentleychemicals.co.uk ) and give them a call.

They tell you exactly what you need for your task.

Markus

 

[VersionUp]

Bentley chemicals is a distributor for Smooth-on products. Ask them for Smooth-On EpoxAmite laminating epoxies. Comes in 3 different curing speeds according to weather. It also has a longer pot life so it's perfect if you're doing big pieces.

 

[TheHeroOfCanton]

I can't answer all of your questions but I'll do my best.

What are those stuff called?
Prop and model makers mostly use two types of resins. For large things made up of a shell or panels (like armour, or a vehicle's body) we use Polyester resin and glass fiber tissue. Use together they are mostly called GRP or fibreglass. Here's a picture of someone making a surfboard using GRP, he's pouring the resin onto the mat and then pushing the resin into and through the mat:

The other type of resin we use is called Polyurethane (PU) resin. Is can also be called epoxy resin or fast cast. We use this resin to create solid shapes, such as a gun prop or a starship model. They are used with Room Tempereature Vulcanising (RTV) silicone rubber moulds which we usually call RTV Silicone. There are literally hudreds of these polyurethane resins on the market and smooth on is the big name in the US it seems, but they all do roughly the same thing; you mix them together (usually in a 50/50 ratio) and then pour them into your mould and after a time (which varies between resins) they cure and go hard. Different resins have different pot lives (how long before they start going hard) and different properties when cured. It's up to you to find the right one for your project, but a sales person will hep you decide. There is no "wonder resin" that works for every model, you have to choose the right one for each model. Some people use Polyester resin to cast solid objects, but that isn't good at all. Without the fiberglass to reinforce it polyester resin is very brittle and also shrinks a bit more than PU resin, however because polyester is much cheaper than PU a few people use it. But I would not reccomend it. Here is a picture of a typical Polyurethane resin model:

What is inside them?
Well, I'm afraid I'm no chemist. But with PU resin, one half is called the Polyol and one half is called the Isocyanite, when you mix them together they react and become a solid plastic material. You mix them together in equal parts for most PU resins. Polyester resin uses a chemical catalyst to react, and you only need 2% of the weight of your mix to be catalyst. So for example, if you had 100 grams of resin you would mix in 2 grams of catalyst. It's important not to overcatalyse polyester resin as it gets very hot when curing and if you do add too much catalyst it can catch fire.

What are their chemical name?
I don't know exactly whats in them but all together the two are a Polyurethane and a Polyester material.

Where they used other than prop making?
Polyester resin is used to make GRP everywhere in all kinds of manufacturing, it is used to build boats, ships, oil tanks, surfboards, cars, planes the list goes on and on and on...
Polyurethane as a resin is mostly used in modelmaking and design to my knowlege.

Is any kind of "resin" works?
Not sure I understand that question sorry .

What keywords can I use to search those stuff?
I have written all the key words in itallics in my above answers.

What is chemistry behind them?
Again, a sales person will be able to tell you but it isn't necessary to know in order to use them properly.

How can I find correct resin easily?
Talk to an expert who sells resins, usually they know their products very well and well be able to helop you if you tell them about what you want to do.

What should I say to salesperson to get correct thing?
Tell them that you don't know much, and tell them exactly what you want to be able to do. They might be able to reccomend books or websites to help you learn.

How those stuff are different than other "resins"?
Well, as far as I understand the word, a "resin" is any liquid material that becomes solid when exposed to air or a chemical catalst. But I wouldn't suggest using pine resin to cast models with :lol!

I hope that help you a bit. It's a big sbject and there is alot to learn, so if you're unclear just ask more questions .

THoC.

 

[AbsoluteSciFi]

@TheHeroOfCanton: That is a very good sumation of the principals involved with resins and there general use. Wish I had that about two years ago!

 

[TheHeroOfCanton]

Thanks Absolute . I wish I'd had it too. I haven't been here long and I don't know other people's levels of expertise on the subject, but if people would find it useful I'd be very happy to pen a few "getting started with resin" guides. Lord knows I could have used them when I started out, the books of the subject that I've found are all a bit out of date.

 

[burak575]

TheHeroOfCanton man you are a real hero Thanks for you great answer. You even included some pictures :love Also thanks for VersionUp, OdiWan72 for your replies, they will help too.

I was wrote those questions to be easily replied by simple words, but your reply was awesome. Now I know polyester and polyurethane difference, and used places.

When I asked for "Is any kind of "resin" works?" I meant what makes "Aqua Resin, Jasmonite and stuff like that" more special than other types of resin.

I found some more information about these stuff while searching too;

Jesmonite AC100 is water based, two component, acrylic polymer/mineral resin system

And "GreenMapleStudio" user from Youtube answered my basic question as this

I am not familliar with all the different types of resins. But the kind I use is called Fiberglass resin, and its elmer's brand. I hear there are better brands but it works perfectly for what i use it for. But yeah, the type you'll want to use (or atleast the only one i've ever used) is FIBERGLASS resin.

He was upload some armor making videos.

I found some guy said about Aqua Resin:

It's a knock off (not saying it's bad, just copied) of Forton MG.

It is a polymer modified gypsum. The polymer used in FMG is 50% solids and on the 55 gallon drums it says it's a Latex Polymer. It's a mixture of a dry melamine resin, a harderner (ammonium chloride), gypsum, and the polymer. Aqua Resin is the same basic thing, they just mix all their dry ingredients before selling it to you.

(What? Melamine?)

Also found about Forton MG:

The liquid component, Forton VF-812 is a specially formulated acrylic copolymer to cross link with the dry resin and hardener to make the end product moisture resistant and ultra violet stable.

The dry melamine resin powder is added to insure moisture resistance.

Also I have some more questions to ask after those informations :rolleyes
Is it important to being "water based" or being "acrylic polymer" ? Or just any "polyester resin" works?

How much viscosity should it have?

And I found some local companies that produces Polyester resins after your detailed post :angel
Poliya | Products > Polipol Polyester Resins > GRP (Glass Reinforced)
CAM ELYAF - CE 92 N8

Do you have any idea what product from these should work best?


Thanks for everything, this going to be good guide.

 

[TheHeroOfCanton]

I should have talked about acrylic gypsums, oops. Now, I haven't used these much but I know more or less what they're about. "Jesmonite" is a specific product, it is made up of a plaster-like powder and an acrylic resin which hardens when exposed to air or when it's mixed with the powder which is called a gypsum. Gypsum is not a product name, it refers to a powder that has been made in a specific way. I have used a product that is exactly the same as Jesmonite but is called Crystacal. Jesmonite and similar products are popular with statue makers as they cure into a stoney marble like material which is nice and heavy and feels smooth and cold to the touch. However it isn't very flexible and can be brittle, so it isn't used in modelmaking much I don't think.

What are you making ? It sound like you will be using GRP, which is easy because all you need is some polyester resin, some glass fiber matt which you can get from any car body repair shop. It's worth buying some and playing around, I will try to find a good guide for you I know lots of people who have made their own RC boats in GRP and have documented the process. Making the mould is the hardest part.

Try not to concentrate on the names of products at the moment, first decide which process to use, then decide which product you need (which we can help with ) Please ask more questions if you need to .

EDIT: Found an awesome fibreglass mould making tutorial HERE!

THoC.

 

[burak575]

My process is simple. Its called peppekura? method. It's a computer program that converts 3d computer models to 2d paper. So you can brush some resin on it and strengthen it, and put inside some fiber glass.

So I am good at computer 3d modeling. When I see a guy called "Indy Mogul" on youtube, that he makes an halo armor, the whole idea and how easy it is amazed me. I see members of this forum making great things, their works also attracts me to this stuff more I will make some peppekura prototypes first. Like few iron man or halo helmets. Then go for full size projects

I am not know which resin to buy yet. But I found some local guy describing how to make stuff using GRP. And an expert guy that in this industry answering questions about process. I am going to ask him where can I buy stuff and jump into process Already he was given some local brand names that I can buy resin, but I will ask "which one is better?". I hope he will respond fast and don't make me wait longer Even If he doesn't answer I can call that company. Finally founding some local brand made me happy... Lets see what will future brings to me

When I get advanced in this process I will get into clay modelling, mold making and casting process. Which seem more advanced and hard to do now for me. Also I already found some local companies that produces mold extracting latex. So I will not needed to search for it that much

When I get necessary tools, I will ask people for some tips for beginners, like me Then I may make a blog about things that I experinced. So other people that interested in these things will not needed to have much search.

 

[TheHeroOfCanton]

Sounds great man you're on the right track. I'll be interested to see what you make .

 

[themanwoaname]

Thanks Absolute . I wish I'd had it too. I haven't been here long and I don't know other people's levels of expertise on the subject, but if people would find it useful I'd be very happy to pen a few "getting started with resin" guides. Lord knows I could have used them when I started out, the books of the subject that I've found are all a bit out of date.

please do, could you also include resins that would be good off the shelf at homedepot too?

 

[TheHeroOfCanton]

please do, could you also include resins that would be good off the shelf at homedepot too?

I'll start work on some guides soon I think . I was going to write some anyway to help train new people in my mould shop - this will encourage me hehe. I'm afraid we don't have homedepot here in the UK, and I very much doubt our shops sell the same brands of resin. In my guides I will be illustrating the fundamentals, it will be up to the reader to buy and try a few products and evaluate them. There are so many products out there it's impossible for me to cover all of them, but seeing as they all do exactly the same thing people shouldnt find it difficult to find a product that they can get hold of easily.

Will.

 

[burak575]

We can make a resin database that works for all places around earth Like your said people will find material, try it, evaluate properties of it, where they find it and add all of this info to our database. So beginners or maybe pros? can search our database for appropriate material for their work. I think it will be nice

 

[Zaxmon]

I'll start work on some guides soon I think . I was going to write some anyway to help train new people in my mould shop - this will encourage me hehe. I'm afraid we don't have homedepot here in the UK, and I very much doubt our shops sell the same brands of resin. In my guides I will be illustrating the fundamentals, it will be up to the reader to buy and try a few products and evaluate them. There are so many products out there it's impossible for me to cover all of them, but seeing as they all do exactly the same thing people shouldnt find it difficult to find a product that they can get hold of easily.

Will.

Looking forward to the guides! :love

 

[piehead]

if your in the u.k check out mouldlife. they do great fastcasts, my favourite is alwa s5 or easyflo 120. 1 to one mix urethane palstics. tell them what you are doing they will let you know the best material. if you call them tell em ian sent ya.

 

[TheHeroOfCanton]

if your in the u.k check out mouldlife. they do great fastcasts, my favourite is alwa s5 or easyflo 120. 1 to one mix urethane palstics. tell them what you are doing they will let you know the best material. if you call them tell em ian sent ya.

Seconded. I use mould life all the time. I mostly buy Rencast FC 52 and Easyflow 60. I got 22kgs of Supersil 25 the other day - already used 15kgs of it, EEK!! They do loads of different resins and rubbers and they know everything there is to know about what they sell. Check out the stuff on their site.

 

[burak575]

Yay! I finally found a local expert about these stuff. He has a company that produces lots of things from resins. He answered some of my questions detailed. He said some companies to buy resin. Next week I will ask for any provider in my province, If not then I order some resin over internet and until they shipping it, I will make peppekura models get ready. I will make a bloglike website about process. So it will be like a guide. Then will code some php for the resin database system Then ask you guys for some resin entires

 

[Adrian]

THOC that was an awesome summation, I am just getting started in all this as well and that help so much.

I can't wait to see some guides,

I have just started peping an IM helm and am thinking of going the route of casting it for the wearable version(if this pep is usable as my first... ), but I am unsure of that process, a guide on that would be awesome.

Thanks for starting a great thread burka.

 

[DentedFett]

I know nothng about Resin Sorry.