Recasting - what can I do ????

[Bountyhunter Niko]

Hi there. I've had armour since 1995 and been in the game for a long time. I’m part of the 501st. I’m known on the local forums as a bit of a ‘go-to’ guy when it comes to getting armour. Even to the point that the local C.O. has made a new position of ‘Chef Armour’. I’ve set a ‘pinned’ thread in our Garrisons forum. It explains each set of armour ( FX, AP, ect ), pros, cons, and pics. I help new ( and old ) people source armour from reputable sellers like - MC, DL, AP, TPE, ect.

But recasting is a fight that I'm losing in my Garrison. In my local garrison a thread of 4 pages and 68 posts there was clear line of thinking that recasting is fine. I was one of three that disagreed against many.

There has been some Stormtrooper recasting done in my Garrison. I was told by a few people (while casting was being done ) that it is directly cast off an AP suit. To make my fight worse - when someone new comes along within the boarders of the squad that the recaster lives in - they are directed straight to this guy. Even when I suggest otherwise. Some of them I get away, but some go the recast armour. It makes me angry every time.

It's a fight I'm losing.

What can I do?

BTW - I get NO kickbacks from the sellers that I recommend. I've sent hundreds of jobs their way. I'm just trying to find out a way to stop the recasting that is happening.

 

[GINO]

There's nothing you can do unfortunately.
There is no fixing it from within.
Fundamentally, in order for the 501st to thrive, they NEED recasting to happen.
That is a truth that I think a lot of people including myself didn't want to accept.
All could have been fine if they kept with the FX armor, but they got greedy and HAD to have something better. Do you really think the children give a crap about the accuracy differences between something cast from original vs FX? :rolleyes

Costumers, not all of course, are largely responsible for the trend in recasting within our hobby. And most costumers are 501st.
Better to treat them like the plague. Don't offer anything to them of value is the only way to be safe. It is something that they have brought on themselves.
They have condemned themselves to the props they have now, with no hope of future pieces tied to anything cast from original.

There is a total disconnect with them between what fuels the hobby of prop/costume collecting vs cosplay (which is what they do).

Better to leave the organization than be labeled with their non-existent code of ethics.

.

 

[KitSmasher]

Yeah, there's a huge thread on this in the Legion forums- there's a HUGE number of people that think it's okay.

The justification everyone is latching on to is that LFL owns all the copyrights anyway, so the artist making the piece is already a "thief" so stealing it is totally okay. My personal favorite reason is that the armor/prop makers all "overcharge" for their stuff, so they deserve to get recast.

I suspect many people are ill informed, and the rest don't want the flow of cut-rate goods to end.

I gave up trying to change anyone's mind, it's like yelling into a jet engine.

 

[JBReplicas]

I commend your efforts but I too think its a battle you will never win, there will always be recasters, people who settle for less and have no regard for the effort, craftsmanship, time and actual passion put into some pieces, sad indeed. I have spent nearly 3 years putting together my ESB Boba Fett display and I think even now its only around 40% complete because I am striving for as near perfection as I can get, no compromise :thumbsup

 

[GINO]

CommanderCody (HeadlessHunter on TDH), don't you own trooper helmets from CAP?
It's just as bad to support them you know.

http://www.thedentedhelmet.com/showthread.php?t=33418


.

 

[Clutch]

what is CAP?

 

[GINO]

CAP (weibes, Chris P.) is one of the worst known recasters of trooper items. He has admittedly and proudly recast AP, TE, TE2, etc...
He sells tons of stuff to people on FISD and MEPD and they eat it up like hotcakes.

.

 

[FON]

You cannot beat it these days. We live in a world with an "I gots ta have it now" attitude. No one is willing to save up for what they want... so they go the cheap route, or into debt.

Best to run for the hills Niko.

 

[Bountyhunter Niko]

You cannot beat it these days. We live in a world with an "I gots ta have it now" attitude. No one is willing to save up for what they want... so they go the cheap route, or into debt.

Best to run for the hills Niko.

But I can get most armour from the makers nearly as quick.

All pretty sad really. Most in the Garrison know that I'm not a trooper. I'm a collector. I have seven complete suits ( not to mention helmets and busts) on display. Most coming from some great original sculptors. But I've only worn one. And that one only twice.

I'm already pretty much out-casted by one of the squads here. It's the one with the recasters. I've gotten some pretty rude PM's and emails.

They need to spend some time over here, or spend some time with someone who has sculpted from scratch.

I'm left with a mix of sadness and anger.

 

[JBReplicas]

GINO

I do not own any helmets from CAP, I recently painted one up for someone just to clarify :thumbsup

 

[FON]

Hey Niko. I know exactly what you mean... However I hope they don't turn up here. Recently there has been an influx of recaster happy folks, and those that support them, joining up. The scary part is you can be selling to a member here, then find out that piece has been copied, and doing the rounds with ebay.. nothing is sacred anymore. Even here.

Not only that their recasted wares still turn up in the junkyard, up for sale. Although such recasters are banned, they are still doing business by proxy. Just as bad.

 

[BDK]

All pretty sad really. Most in the Garrison know that I'm not a trooper. I'm a collector. I have seven complete suits

I've got to ask, then why did you join a costuming group?

Someone that doesn't go out and actually wear the stuff outside the 1 a year to stay active will never change policy. The ones that bust ass and do 20 or 30 or more events a year are the ones that influence policy. I've taken the stand against recasting and its spread to the majority of the local troopers to me, is that a change in policy? No but if no one's buying from my lil corner of PA no ones going to be doing it here either.

 

[Bountyhunter Niko]

Hey Niko. I know exactly what you mean... However I hope they don't turn up here. Recently there has been an influx of recaster happy folks, and those that support them, joining up. The scary part is you can be selling to a member here, then find out that piece has been copied, and doing the rounds with ebay.. nothing is sacred anymore. Even here.

Not only that their recasted wares still turn up in the junkyard, up for sale. Although such recasters are banned, they are still doing business by proxy. Just as bad.

With the new TE how to on Youtube - now everyone thinks they can do it. I know of FOUR people in this Garrison who are building their own Vac-forming Tables.

TPE ( a local legit armourer ) is thinking of throwing in the towel because he is worried that as soon as someone buys something - it will get recast.

I've got to ask, then why did you join a costuming group?

My wife and I have had three children in the last five years. I love them to death and want to spend every minute with them. I also work more then full time. I love my wife very much also. So I'm not going to turn to her and say " Honey - you stay home and look after the kids - I'm going trooping." Maybe when my lids are a bit older I'll troop more.

I'm on line a couple of times a day and get involved that way.

And please don't associate the amount of trooping with power in the 501st. I've known grunts out there that do the hard yards and their voice is never heard. Considering one of the Command Staff has been instrumental with the recasting effort here.

 

[Too Much Garlic]

And people wonder why no one shares.

You can fight them all you want, but the low cost (also mostly showing poor quality materials and workmanship) and the entitlement thrown around is not worth battling. They want the best and screws over anyone they can to get it, laugh at it with the same tirade: "Well, it's LFLs property, so boohoo to you, I can rip you off any way I like." Illogical logic. If you think the first one is stealing, then what the hell justifies YOU to steal as well or even buy what they are selling - hypocite.

 

[BDK]

And please don't associate the amount of trooping with power in the 501st. I've known grunts out there that do the hard yards and their voice is never heard. Considering one of the Command Staff has been instrumental with the recasting effort here

That is precisley the way the vast vast majority of the 501st works. The guys/gals that go out and be around the people the most are the ones elected to leadership postions or appointed to command staff roles by the elected leader. Do all grunts get heard? No never gonna happen not with a 5000 member group, but and I'm sorry to say someone who is more collector than trooper won't be heard, its just a simple pyschology issue. I feel for you man, a good portion of my friends in the Legion are in your same boat. But the words at the keyboard are never as influential as the person after events at the bar or restuarnt having a serious chat session with members.

 

[KaanE]

And people wonder why no one shares.

That makes reference to the new Vader 'help' thread? :lol

You can fight them all you want, but the low cost (also mostly showing poor quality materials and workmanship) and the entitlement thrown around is not worth battling. They want the best and screws over anyone they can to get it, laugh at it with the same tirade: "Well, it's LFLs property, so boohoo to you, I can rip you off any way I like." Illogical logic. If you think the first one is stealing, then what the hell justifies YOU to steal as well or even buy what they are selling - hypocite.

I like your logic NHM!

I'm not with recast, and I will never say 'hey, recast the thing and save you a few $' because I think it's not worth steal something for a few $ and then say, you have stolen LFL because you handworked-copied them!

Just my 0.02$ :thumbsup

 

[Too Much Garlic]

What I find the most saddening is that there could be such a perfect collaboration between the costuming and prop collecting community. Instead, the two are at each other's throats: one for wanting the best, but not willing to pay the price for high-end collectibles, the other for getting screwed over by people from the other faction, who then hides behind a "non action" stance against screwing people.

The charity work, from the prop collecting community POV is soiled by the blatant disregard for the source of their outfits and the "I want the most accurate, I want it now and I want it cheap!" mentality going on.

I don't understand why it has to be this way. But with the mentality that they feel they are entitled to the best and most accurate, but not willing to pay what that costs and the lack of action to prevent these tendencies, I find it impossible to support such an otherwise charitable group.

The kids wouldn't care if it was a FX suit or a cast from screen used - the costumer is the one who cares. And where does he get the accurate stuff? From the prop community. Wouldn't it then be logical to adhere to the ethics of that other community where you get your stuff from, or can it really be right that you can just turn around and piss at the very ones who provided you with the accurate stuff in the first place, just to gain a quick buck/earn respect/whatever and hide behind the groups non-rules on recasting etiquette.

I can honestly say that I know of SEVERAL pieces that won't ever be offered or has only been offered to a select few BECAUSE of the blatant recasting going on in the costuming group and many costumers being members and having ability to buy stuff in the prop community.

So... the recasters bring nothing new to either community... they just steal what is already available to make a quick profit or gain status.

But hey... I've said all this before... and things just seem to get worser, so why bother. When I first joined this community I wondered why it was so difficult to get anyone to share... now I know why... yet now it has never been easier to find info... but the level of entitlement I see from people regarding many things just makes me wanna puke sometimes and wonder why I'm even wasting my time anymore.

 

[defstartrooper]

If you want to at least warn those that want no part in recasting and want to avoid buying recasts or selling to recasters feel free to register and share any information you have at the site in my signature.
There's nothing you can do really to stop someone recasting or to convince those that think there's nothing wrong with recasting to change, but if you want to help others and yourself from being unwittingly duped then sign up.

 

[defstartrooper]

The kids wouldn't care if it was a FX suit or a cast from screen used

Funny aint it Carsten that line was exactly what costumers used to use when they were running around in FX suits " the kids don't know the difference ".
Well if the kids don't know the difference and costuming is all about the kids why the need to steal other peoples stuff ?
It's certainly not for the kids, pretty shameful to use charity and children to justify themselves.

 

[Jumpin Jax]

With the new TE how to on Youtube - now everyone thinks they can do it. I know of FOUR people in this Garrison who are building their own Vac-forming Tables.

:rolleyes
Videos on vac forming go back years on youtube, stay focused on the actual problem. There are books and sites galore on how to build a nuclear weapon, you still have to be a lunatic to do it.
Vac forming is about the only information NOT guarded by this community.
I dumped the 501st long ago for condoning one crooked practice after another; be it allowing outsiders to decide what events they will do to holding up recasters as "men of the people."
You can't DO anything, your friends don't care about basic integrity, they just want what they want. Greedy, selfish, and childlike in their pursuits.

The ball started rolling a while ago, there's no stopping it now. If you want to do something real, never EVER buy a recast product. If a seller cannot concretely verify something, don't buy it. I've seen many here that bought a ripoff without knowing, and they are innocent of it. It just takes a little more effort to make sure you aren't a part of the problem.
Doing the right thing is always harder, that's why so few people do it.
JJ