Recasting Out of Business Props Question...

It is never OK.
Even if you REALLY, REALLY want it, are too cheap to buy one used at whatever they are currently selling for, or any of the other 1 million excuses for bad behavior, it is still not OK.
Claims of grey areas are just justifications to distract or dilute guilt.:rolleyes
 
It is never OK.
Even if you REALLY, REALLY want it, are too cheap to buy one used at whatever they are currently selling for, or any of the other 1 million excuses for bad behavior, it is still not OK.
Claims of grey areas are just justifications to distract or dilute guilt.:rolleyes

So you don't own any cast from screen used items?
 
So you don't own any cast from screen used items?
:behave my thoughts exactly. everyday on here and many other forums somebody posts they got a hold of a screen used piece, a MR piece or something else, and in turn are going to start making that particular piece....people line up in droves to buy it.
 
Speaking of silly, the fella who started the thread was in a sense a victim of being recast recently. Strange how it might be okay if the shoe is on his other foot, right?

http://www.therpf.com/f9/jk-sabers-contact-info-copyright-infringement-94532/

No, I wasn't saying I was being recast in that thread. Someone took a design I created especially for my (unborn) daughter at the time, started machining them and selling them for profit and still is to this day. He didn't have permission from me and I find it discusting that he took something so personal to me and my child and makes money on it.

So what's your point?

Are you suggesting something or looking for clarification?
 
Just because you're emotionally invested in it doesn't mean anyone else is. Just like how I am emotionally invested in the stuff I worked on at Master Replicas. Or Steve is about ALL of the MR stuff since he started the company and had a big hand in almost every single product they made. You're being silly to try to cite "emotion" in your response, in a forum of people who MADE the collectibles you want to use.

I'm showing you a perfect example of how you probably know the answer to your own question. You're asking for permission to take something that was most likely the work of someone in our community, and use it as a shortcut.

What I'm saying is: Sucks when it happens to YOU, doesn't it?

We have a saying around the office: If you have to ask, the answer is almost always going to be "no". Heh.

JC, do what you want. People will make their own decisions about the whys, and whether to buy it or not. It's that simple when it comes to recasting on the RPF.
 
Well now. You've made some pretty big assumptions there. So you're accusing me of, what, attempting or about to recast? The fact is, you don't know the reason why I'm asking the question and out of no where you're bating me. Last I looked, that's more frowned upon than recasting on this board. Read my first post again. No where does it say "I've got this prop and I'm thinking about recasting it, what do you all think?"
I asked a very specific question and even gave an example. Dude, unless you're going to positivly add to the actual question, stay off my threads. Who the hell do you think you are coming off on me like that? You and I haven't interacted in some time and I'd like to keep it that way.
 
So you're banning me from your threads now? Accusing you? You asked a question and we all weighed in. Sorry I guess I hit a hot button, JC. But I was not baiting you, come on. So in my opinion, I think you're assuming a lot, too, about my intentions. I hope you got useful information for whomever you're asking the question for.

Happy to shake hands and walk away.
 
You know what, I should apologize - my words were poorly chose above, since you didn't exactly say that you were planning to recast an item, but were asking a hypothetical. So I do apologize for that - it does indeed read wrong.
 
You know what, I should apologize - my words were poorly chose above, since you didn't exactly say that you were planning to recast an item, but were asking a hypothetical. So I do apologize for that - it does indeed read wrong.

Thank you. I appreciate you taking a second look at that.
 
I also am confused on this.

There was a run of a recast Don Post deluxe Vader helmet a few years ago here on the RPF and everyone was excited about it and many (including myself) bought one.

It was from a long time member,

SO how is this different then recasting recently folded companies. (This is in NO way condoning recasting MR or ICONS etc..)

Just asking
 
Some individuals have their pet companies that they feel passionate and protective of, but from a site standpoint, there is no difference.

I also am confused on this.

There was a run of a recast Don Post deluxe Vader helmet a few years ago here on the RPF and everyone was excited about it and many (including myself) bought one.

It was from a long time member,

SO how is this different then recasting recently folded companies. (This is in NO way condoning recasting MR or ICONS etc..)

Just asking
 
Thanks Art.

Since then, I have been passionate about staying away from recasts. I just was curious as to why it was supposedly OK then.

Was not trying to stir up any trouble.
 
To answer the question someone asked, "Who'd buy a recast?" Anyone who is new to the prop replica scene would. When I went to MegaCon 2009, I came across Arsenal Models' booth. I was impressed and almost came close to buying something from them, and even included them in my "Day at MegaCon" video. It was until after I signed up here at the RPF and began to get more interested in propmaking did I realize the truth about Arsenal Models. Everyone here knows the truth about Arsenal Models and have more experience on constructing props. If I hadn't found out about the RPF, I probably would have bought from Arsenal Models and not known the truth about them. Not to mention, most newbies don't know anything about how to make props from scratch, and would end up buying a recast because they don't know how to make a replica from scratch. Basically, newbies who don't know any better would be a shorter response. And trust me, there are a lot of people who are fans of TV shows and movies who would buy a recast and not think twice about it.

But when it comes to replica props in general, we're already violating copyright laws. Unlike most recasters who are like Arsenal Models and those who sell on eBay, we make replicas out of love of a film/tv show/comic book/book/video game/etc, not for the profit. The profit portion is where things get screwed up. Yes, I understand when you some of you sell a kit or a cast, you're trying to make up for the cost of the materials you used to make it, but if that's the case, then why sell multiple pulls at $150+ dollars when you only spent about $50 worth (or less) on the items to make the positives and negatives for the mold, sculpt, etc, then it makes no sense when you produce a certain number of pulls that covers the costs and then some. But even with that, you are still using something created by someone else.

Does that make recasting right? No. Basically you took the time to construct something by yourself and made a cast. Unlike a recent incident, which I'm sure you guys know what I mean, if you make the mold yourself and you make the cast, then it makes recasting wrong. You spent your time and money to make the mold and casts. When it comes to the recent incident that was discussed with a Ghostbusters proton pack, it's a little bit more difficult to say where the line of right and wrong gets drawn.

In my opinion, if the people who made the original items at those companys are here and they're not okay with it, it's no different than a recaster who buys a kit from a user here (someone who scratch built the item and created the original mold, etc) and makes a recast of it. If you take the time to ask those artists if they're okay with it (even if they do or do not have the rights to the item in question), the worse they can say is no or "though we don't recommend it, we can't say you can't." Asking those artists is an actual sign of respect. If one of them expresses their concern that its not okay to copy their work, then don't do it.

Seriously, as much as I wish that we can do more of the Lovecraft share-all like Lovecraft had wanted with his story mythos, sometimes it takes one bad apple to spoil the whole bunch for the community who does something out of the love of it. I'm only for recast if it is meant to preserve history (i.e. making a copy of a piece to be stored somewhere as a record of it, or making kits of something to help keep the items used to create a prop, which may now be more rare or non-existent in these days. As much as many want authentic Graflex light sabers, the original Graflex flash-bulb tube could very well be rare and on the verge of extinction) or to provide a piece or two to someone else's scratch build (I've got an Airsoft FN-57, and though I have considered scratch building the launcher for it, I have checked to see if there was already a pre-existing kit just for the launcher itself). Do I agree with what Arsenal Model does? No, because they copied a cast made by someone else, who took the time to make their mold and cast from scratch. Do I agree with something like the incident with the Ghostbuster's proton pack? I'm still on the fence on that one, but that particular incident did bring up an interesting question.

In relation to the question about: Does recasting an out of business company right or wrong? It really depends on the artist, if the item is still being produced (such as by the company or another company) and how long ago it was produced. As we see, one user here has already expressed that he doesn't like the idea of someone reproducing his work that he did when he was under contract with the company. So, I say we respect his wishes and any such recast would be wrong.

Using this as an example (NOTE: I am not sure if this is actually true, but I felt this is an example to help cover my point on this one), let's say Zack Finfrock of Wayside Productions asked Skruffy if it was okay to make a mold of Skruffy's Pipboy so that he could make a flexible and easier to wear copy of the Pipboy for his Nuka Break webseries (which Zack has done). If Skruffy said yes, then Zack proceeded with making the flexible Pipboy with the promise to only making the one(s) needed just for the production and no intention reproduce and selling to other people. That I can agree with as Zack asks Skruffy permission to copy his work and promised not to make others to sell (and though Skruffy doesn't own the rights to make the Pipboy kits, if Zack asked to use his kit for the basis of the flexible Pipboy for the production, then Skruffy does have the right to say if its okay for Zack to copy his cast, which Skruffy had made the original scratch build, the mold and the cast).

But, lets say I'm doing a recast of an arm for a Skeletor action figure from the 1980s Masters of the Universe line for my old Skeletor figure (which is missing an arm), then I feel its okay because I'm trying to restore a historical item and I'm doing one piece for myself. Granted, Hasbro has recently produce the MotU line again, the newer figures parts aren't compatible with the older figures bodies because they've done entirely new sculpts. But if I contacted Hasbro to ask permission to do a small run of that part from the old figure for others looking to replace parts of their figures that are missing and they said, "Don't", then I probably wouldn't.

Of course, this is just my opinion and interpretation with the information I have to work with. I could very well be wrong in my opinion and interpretation.
 
Every person is going to have their own take on this. I don't know if the OP is just interested in batting around the idea and seeing where people stand or if you are looking for a definitive answer from the staff. If your underlying question is whether or not you will be banned for recasting a piece from a company that has gone out of business or no longer holds a particular license (yes, even MR), the answer is "unlikely." Some individuals get up in arms about it, but as a community, the recasting of defunct company's pieces has long been allowed and we aren't changing that now.

With that being said, I want to be clear that anyone recasting an active licensee's pieces will not only be immediately shown the door, but we will also place a rabid Tasmanian devil in your trousers as a parting gift.


Same goes for recasting a casting of ANYTHING that another member has made without their permission.

Art on a serious note, with replica prop companies (for example QMx's artisan line) turning towards hand built and researched products that are built by small artist and then 're-branded' and sold under the larger companies license, where do these products fit in?

Does the 'show them the door ban' apply or the 'unlikely to be banned' apply once the company is no longer producing?
 
If someone gets one of those pants-devils and was interested in making a few copies of it for friends, I'd be interested.

Personally I find the whole recasting thing to be funny. I've given open permission to anyone who wants to recast any original thing I make. I don't care if they make money off of it, change it, do better than me or produce crap. There's no sense in sweating it.

I still turn away more request than I fulfill, despite that. So clearly it's not hurting me, at least in my own little niche.

I think the idea of marking territory in the community is just futile. Make things because you enjoy it, share because you want to share. Don't try to make a business off of making replicas of things you don't own the rights to and you don't have to worry about it.


Thank you for stating the obvious. Every "replica" made for a profit is ultimately unlawful regardless of it's replicated origins. Even if you put in some hard work replicating a prop to "as close to screen accurate" as possible, and then proceed to sell copies, it doesn't make it yours or give you domain over it.

Now, that being said. It has for whatever reason, become acceptable in our hobby/collectible community for a person to lay claim to "their" original copy of copyrighted material, that they don't even own, and then get mad when someone else does a recast of their replica copy.

Seems to me this comes out of peoples feeling of entitlement due to them being first to make a nice replica and then scoffing at someone making a recast or shortcut. Ultimately they are mad at competition and loss of potential revenue. You can't say "Well, I made this really great copy of (insert prop here) and I'm gonna make more and sell it to the community here and if someone takes a shortcut and shortens their window to market by copying me I'm gonna be mad". You might not like it, but you look foolhardy and if your stuff is better than the competition then people will continue to buy from you.
 
So from what I can gather:

1) Recasting another member's original work born of blood, sweat, tears, years, and at times the threat or actuality of divorce, is grounds for absolute banishment, the loss of all respect within the replica community, and the forfeiture of your testicles and eternal soul, UNLESS the other member:

  • is dead and cold-in-the ground with no future interest in said products that have been passed on to needy descendants who plan to continue the legacy of their father by way of continued sale of said product, or
  • has vanished from the face of the earth for a period of at least and exactly several some-odd years AND has no remaining friends who are still members of this board that still expect and patiently await his return and feel morally obligated to indefinitely protect his creative progeny in his absence,
…and even then many probably won’t like it if the person that continues the production isn’t viewed as being the proper one to carry on the line.

2) Recasting a licensed replica created at great expense and effort by a still-in-business company that spent many man-hours engaged in the original fabrication of masters and/or the tedium of obtaining all appropriate and legal consent to produce the products, AND is still selling said replicas in order to recoup costs involved in the initial product and make a bit of profit to fund future projects and a little left over to spend on the owner’s sweet thang in order to stave off the latest threat of divorce, is grounds for banishment and the loss of all respect within the replica community.

3) Recasting a once-licensed product made by a company no longer in business is EITHER:

  • viewed with utter disdain by any that have ever owned or been employed by a similar out-of-business company as the one in question, or with complete rancor by some former employees or owners of the actual out-of-business company in question,
  • welcomed by many that realize that they will benefit from the offering

UNLESS:

the product in question is actually a recast of a another member's out-of-license product or cast for which the member owning the out-of-license product/cast spent significant effort, expense, or social networking capital using contacts that were not easily obtained and not possessed by those in the general populace in order to obtain said out-of-license product/cast. Significant efforts made to obtain rare out-of-license products/casts generally equate to an investment that should be, though are not always, respected by members to the extent that would prevent members from recasting the member’s. Failure to respect such efforts by recasting other member’s rare out-of-license products/casts are subject to severe disdain and is generally not tolerated.
 
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