Re: Not Quite as Screen-Used as I Originally Thought Vader Costume

[darthvaderv]

Re: Mostly Screen-Used Vader Costume

OK heres my question. Ive asked Gino and others about this so its germaine to this thread. In those pics the shoulderbells are two tone (like my personal armor). People keep refering to that as teh ESB/ROTJ color scheme but whenI asked I was told that teh bells in ESB/ROTJ are all black and only teh hand painted bells in ANH were two tone.
Here we have a set of shoulder armor with a paint finish more consistent with teh LATER movies but with a two tone shoulder bell set up and being referred to as ESB/ROTJ.
Now my head hurts and I think that 501st and everyone else aside Im not going to repaint them black....grrrr.....
So what IS the scoop....\

OK, because the call out in that pic is ESB/ROTJ shoulders but they arent black, they are two tone like ANH but have a nicer finish like in ESB ROTJ.
So, that means they are too nice for ANH and the wrong colors for ESB/ ROTJ apparently (?)

Yep, without sounding harsh I see no legitimate piece whatsoever and definately the finishing is incorrect whichever way you look at it. Any accuracy regarding those items is to be taken with a pinch of salt IMO.

 

[DAVIDYR1]

Re: Mostly Screen-Used Vader Costume

Awesome thread. Thank you.

David

 

[Carson Dyle]

Re: Mostly Screen-Used Vader Costume

You're welcome.

Just to clarify one point, I have no stake -- financial, personal, or otherwise – in the items pictured, be they screen used or not. In particular, I made it clear from the outset that I could not attest to the authenticity of the greaves, other than to confirm their LFL origins. The gentlemen who purchased the greaves did so with the understanding that they were most likely created for promotional/ publicity purposes. As for the other items, the issue of screen authenticity is, as far as I’m concerned, largely academic.

Once upon a time, a small cadre of SW experts comprised of fans, pros, and veterans of the OT (including, as it happens, David Prowse) were given a direct hands-on opportunity to study the under suit pieces and cloaks in order to determine whether they were screen used or not. Based on their collective findings, the final consensus was that they were, in fact, screen used items.

Were the experts wrong? Wouldn’t be the first time (nor, I daresay, the last). For my part, I’m content with simply putting the images out there for the current crop of experts to ponder, scrutinize, and debate. All I ask is that the conversation be conducted on a civil basis, sans the sort of fanboyish name-calling and chest-beating that gives forums like this a bad name.

 

[DAVIDYR1]

Re: Mostly Screen-Used Vader Costume

I dunno...I was about 10 when I first saw Darth Vader. Posts like these just bring back those first time feelings of having seen him as a kid. What a way to live the dream....
Heck...debate? Scrutinize??? Kidding right?

It's an awesome thread. 'Nuff said.

David

 

[Qui-Gonzalez]

Re: Mostly Screen-Used Vader Costume

You're welcome.

Just to clarify one point, I have no stake -- financial, personal, or otherwise – in the items pictured, be they screen used or not. In particular, I made it clear from the outset that I could not attest to the authenticity of the greaves, other than to confirm their LFL origins. The gentlemen who purchased the greaves did so with the understanding that they were most likely created for promotional/ publicity purposes. As for the other items, the issue of screen authenticity is, as far as I’m concerned, largely academic.

Once upon a time, a small cadre of SW experts comprised of fans, pros, and veterans of the OT (including, as it happens, David Prowse) were given a direct hands-on opportunity to study the under suit pieces and cloaks in order to determine whether they were screen used or not. Based on their collective findings, the final consensus was that they were, in fact, screen used items.

Were the experts wrong? Wouldn’t be the first time (nor, I daresay, the last). For my part, I’m content with simply putting the images out there for the current crop of experts to ponder, scrutinize, and debate. All I ask is that the conversation be conducted on a civil basis, sans the sort of fanboyish name-calling and chest-beating that gives forums like this a bad name.

And THANK YOU for the images and for sharing them with us. It is much appreciated.

 

[GKvfx]

Re: Mostly Screen-Used Vader Costume

OK, I've got a question or two. I recognize the pose in the "Chronicles" shoot as being the same (or similar) as a photo on the book. But what was the overall purpose of that shoot? I know that ILM/LFL was caught a bit unprepared for some of the publicity needs. Was that shoot to come up with some other poses for the publicity book? Could that be the shoot where they came up with that famous poster of Darth Vader with the crossed lightsabers that we all had on our walls?

Towards the end of the making of SW, ILM got involved with some pickups and inserts of various shots. ILM filmed the Landspeeder with C-3P0 and R2-D2 out in the desert, as well as the closeup of the severed arm from the Cantina. As such, those props were at ILM, in storage, during the summer of 1977. I've seen photos of ILM people clowning around with those props, along with stacks of Deathstar tiles, and some of the guys have told me that they made cases for them to be shipped up to Marin that summer. But why was Darth Vader there? To my knowledge, they didn't do any insert shooting with that costume, so there was no need for it to be there. Leads me to believe this was done for some sort of publicity tour or reference book. Is there a general consensus that the "Chronicles" shoot photos shown above use a screen used costume?

Just wondering.......

Gene

 

[GINO]

Re: Mostly Screen-Used Vader Costume

Once upon a time, a small cadre of SW experts comprised of fans, pros, and veterans of the OT (including, as it happens, David Prowse) were given a direct hands-on opportunity to study the under suit pieces and cloaks in order to determine whether they were screen used or not. Based on their collective findings, the final consensus was that they were, in fact, screen used items.

Were the experts wrong?

Unfortunately yes, they were absolutely wrong. They simply just don't have a thorough knowledge of the individual components or their finer aspects/characteristics which distinguish between each individual film, let alone what would separate production made vs. promo.
I've seen this scenario play out with other screen used collectors regarding Vader items on multiple occasions.

Regardless of their origin, screen-used, promo, etc...it's still great to see them. And those behind the scene shots of that ILM photo shoot are killer.

.

 

[star-art]

Re: Mostly Screen-Used Vader Costume

I spent all of about 10 minutes on that photo analysis. But I knew you guys would be able to catch any mistakes and fill in the blanks which is why I told CD to go ahead and post the composite.

Yeah, I screwed up on the shoulder bells. Those were ANH style. But, the paint finish doesn't look like the original screen suit. There was some sort of weathering going on and the silver didn't look so clean in the film. The newer armor seems to have been much cleaner and brighter. My guess is they used a a newer style armor casting but had the bells painted in the ANH style.

I'm curious though why no one has commented on the belt boxes? Have these been seen before? (I've been out of the discussions for a while, so I don't know what's been covered before.) The boxes look ANH, yet the large square lights are red and the little lamp next to them is green. This is the reverse of the correct pattern. Also, it appears the six little aluminum knobs are missing, but the red washers or whatever they are at the base are still there. Was this done on purpose to distinguish this version from the original?

It was hard to see at first, but the black base plate for the belt buckle has rounded corners. And, there is some sort of circular detail in the upper right corner.

 

[Carson Dyle]

Re: Mostly Screen-Used Vader Costume

Unfortunately yes, they were absolutely wrong. They simply just don't have a thorough knowledge of the individual components or their finer aspects/characteristics which distinguish between each individual film, let alone what would separate production made vs. promo.
I've seen this scenario play out with other screen used collectors....
.

As have I.

Under the circumstances, I'm sure you'll understand if I take all authoritative claims on this particular matter with a grain of salt.

Getting back to a question I posted earlier, do we know how many promo outfits Berman's & Nathan's produced (assuming they produced any)? I'd be curious to know what these looked like, in comparison to the posted images.

 

[RBJ]

Re: Mostly Screen-Used Vader Costume

I'm struck by the extremely short hem line of the inner robe (even for stunt work it seems uber short) .

It does look really short, but in the Bob Anderson pics I have seen it only comes to a bit below his knees. The cape seems short as well..possibly this is the stunt cape and robe, just modeled by someone taller than Anderson?

Could that be the shoot where they came up with that famous poster of Darth Vader with the crossed lightsabers that we all had on our walls?

Leads me to believe this was done for some sort of publicity tour or reference book. Is there a general consensus that the "Chronicles" shoot photos shown above use a screen used costume?

Just wondering.......

Gene

Those pics are from the same photo session that the poster shot comes from.It is the screen used ANH suit worn by Kermit Eller for promo purposes...

 

[Qui-Gonzalez]

Re: Mostly Screen-Used Vader Costume

One separate thing...is that a Solo holster hanging from the chair?

 

[Carson Dyle]

Re: Mostly Screen-Used Vader Costume

One separate thing...is that a Solo holster hanging from the chair?

Yes, but not an authentic one.

 

[James Kenobi 1138]

Re: Mostly Screen-Used Vader Costume

Don't forget Vader had a short inner cape like this one when he entered Echo base on Hoth in ESB.

I can't post a pic now but I can when I get home. Same cape perhaps?

 

[Too Much Garlic]

Re: Mostly Screen-Used Vader Costume

Don't forget Vader had a short inner cape like this one when he entered Echo base on Hoth in ESB.

There was definitely a lot going on with that costume in that small scene.

 

[James Kenobi 1138]

Re: Mostly Screen-Used Vader Costume

Yeah, he had the 'short' dome helmet too.

 

[Too Much Garlic]

Re: Mostly Screen-Used Vader Costume

Yeah, he had the 'short' dome helmet too.

No, just positioned differently. Too far up in the back. Similar to Don Post style.

 

[RKW]

Re: Mostly Screen-Used Vader Costume

One example of a tour suit.
View attachment 9092
This one has an ANH style helmet but notice the wider stitching on the upper torso. No one knows for sure exactly how many tour suits were made or let me rephrase that. No member knows that answer. But we know quite a few were made since there are a few photos of them and pretty much every exhibit has one.

 

[GINO]

Re: Mostly Screen-Used Vader Costume

The dome was not short, it was just positioned high off the back of the faceplate creating the illusion.

The short robe can be seen one of the hoth sequences as well as one of the star destroyer bridge scenes. I believe the robe was shortened specifically so that Prowse could walk easier in shots that were not head-to-toe. However, the robe ended up being seen (barely) in full shots anyway.

It's possible that very robe is the one in your pics, however without close up photos of the stitching, fabric, and construction, there is no way to tell for sure. It's completely possible that the screen used short robe ended up being stored incorrectly with the other promo pieces which would explain why it is accompanied by the other promo items in your pics. Then again, it could simply just be another promo walking robe.

.

 

[GINO]

Re: Mostly Screen-Used Vader Costume

Found another pic of that belt.
This is from the magazine cover (forget which magazine) shoot that took place post ROTJ with Vader, Gamorrean Guard, Leia in bikini, and an Ewok on the beach.

I thought I had a pic of the cover but I don't. I know other people here might and if so they should post it.
I wouldn't be surprised to find more than just the belt.

.

 

[GKvfx]

Re: Mostly Screen-Used Vader Costume

There's a belt in that photo?

Gene