Profiles auction fraud. Buyer beware!!!

[agent5]

So I was looking over the pics last night of the auction items at Profiles and began looking over the snake. I noticed something at further inspection which made me check my files.

In about 2004 I purchased a 'screen used Raiders rubber snake' on Ebay for under $400 from a guy in the U.K. named Peter Hilton. His description said nothing about how he got it but said full, 100% (the auction said "unquestionable") provenance would be included. I waited and waited and when I got it, lo and behold, it was only the snake with no provenance whatsoever. More to my surprise, it had holes punched through it with pins to hold it to the back of the shadowbox. Totally unprofessional mounting job for a screen used prop.

I mailed Peter and asked where it was and he said he'd simply forgotten to put it in the box and would resend it. I then asked about it and he said he used to go to the Elstree set as a kid and that one of the guys from (now) Elstree props picked it up off the set. He claimed to purchase it from him later and it stayed with him until it met me.

Weeks passed and no paperwork. I mailed him again and got the usual yada-yada, "Oh, I'll track it for you...I'll make sure you get it". Weeks pass and still nothing and no contact. When I do get him he says he go the paperwork back but was now in the process of moving and can't find it. "Give me a week".

Months pass and I begin to get more than upset and I begin to ask direct questions about the provenance. He tells me he bought it from Paul at Elstree props and he was trying to contact him for weeks with no response to get the provenance for me. So, I took it upon myself to contact Paul at Elstree Props who got back to me in less than 2 days. He said he has heard of Mr.Hilton but that they were only acquaintances, not friends, and he had NEVER sold him any Well of Souls snake. :-k

I requested my money back and sent back the snake. I then had to wait 3 months for him to acknowledge he got the snake back in the exact same manner it was sent and then had to wait another 3 months to get a full refund of my money as he had to pay me in installments.

Jerk.

Fast forward to last night. I'm looking at the Profiles catalog and see that the snake in the catalog is the EXACT same snake I was ripped off by not so long ago. You see it's the same shape and even has the holes in the body from the pins.

So, I'm warning any of you who may have had interest in this prop. While it looked nice even in my hands, ever story this guy told me of it's origins from the very beginning was a total lie. He could not back up one single little piece of the provenance puzzle. Not one. I'm actually very lucky to have gotten anything back at all. I'm sure it will sell, but I wanted to make everyone as aware as possible. Watch your money.

Here's the two of them side by side for comparrison.

You can see where the puncture holes are from the pins. They match exactly in the same spot on the one in the shadowbox.

Now, could this actually be a snake from the set? Sure. But again, not one of his stories panned out so I'd love to know how he could prove it now.

If anyone else knows or has had experiences with this guy in the past, please pm me. I'd love to hear them.



"Let's be careful out there."

 

[JoeR]

This seems to be an all too common occurance :angry

 

[dondablo]

 

[agent5]

Uuuuuummmmm.....

O.K.

 

[PHArchivist]

Contact PiH directly with your story, and include the name of the guy who sold it to you. Perhaps it will match the consignor for the auction lot.

PiH claims to make good faith efforts to authenticate, but common consensus here is that they really do not do full justice to the process. With auctions ranging from 400-600 lots in a hobby such as this, and when they are not legally obligated to do so (their fine print "legal-ese" disclaims them from this) it is understandable, from an operational/business point of view.

But...

In my experience with PiH, when given a valid reason to dig deeper, they will. And if they can verify a fake, they will (and have in the past) pull the lot.

This post is neither a defense of nor an attack on PiH.

 

[PHArchivist]

Also share this with the screen-used collectors boards, if you haven't already...

 

[Tatooine_Todd]

PIH is getting a very bad reputation regarding these issues in my book.

 

[dondablo]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(agent5 @ Mar 21 2007, 06:34 PM) [snapback]1445121[/snapback]</div>

Uuuuuummmmm.....

O.K.
[/b]

Excuse the joke. :angel

It was meant as a WHAT WILL THE GUY SELL NEXT THAT HE CAN'T PROVE IS AUTHENTIC.

 

[agent5]

Well, your joke went completely over my head but now that I understand it it's quite funny.

I should also reiterate that this thread was not at all an attack on Profiles nor does it have anything to do with their business practices. I have no reason to doubt what they put up for auction to be authentic but I did have personal association with this particular piece and I do believe that as a consumer it is my duty to look further into purchases such as this to ensure you are getting exactly what you pay for.

I will contact Profiles and let them know. Perhaps he sold it to someone and it is not him who is selling it through Profiles. Who knows? In any case, they should know if it is him.

Does anyone have any links to the screen-used collectors boards?

 

[Got Maul]

I have seen Profiles in History do the "right thing" before. ...they were selling one of Venkman71's proton packs as screen used by accident until he physically went down there himself and proved it. They took it off the auction block if I remember correctly.

 

[JSA]

What collector boards are there for screen-used or original prop collectors?

JS

 

[Cenobyte]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Got Maul @ Mar 21 2007, 09:48 PM) [snapback]1445283[/snapback]</div>

I have seen Profiles in History do the "right thing" before. ...they were selling one of Venkman71's proton packs as screen used by accident until he physically went down there himself and proved it. They took it off the auction block if I remember correctly.
[/b]

I do not think they pulled it.

I believe it sold and then the person who bought it tried to sell it again and that one was pulled.

 

[aliensarchive]

http://mpdf.ipbhost.com/index.php?

 

[Coinprop]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aliensarchive @ Mar 22 2007, 10:57 AM) [snapback]1445501[/snapback]</div>

http://mpdf.ipbhost.com/index.php?
[/b]

I belive registration is closed at that board. Or You need an invitation to join.

 

[Jedi-72]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't you buy a real, flesh and blood, snake that even crawls and flicks its tongue, for about $15.00?

 

[Apollo]

PIH did the right thing when I pointed out a false claim to them in one of their Auctions.

Hopefully they will do the same here.

Thanks for the heads-up agent51

 

[eaviii]

I have generally had good interactions with PIH and they have a great deal at stake if the authenticity of their items comes into question. I suspect they will do right by this. My only complaints in the past has been provenance with items ("the catalog is the provenance" is the quote). Most of what I have bought from them is pretty obscure or unique so provenance is less of an issue. I would really hope they would be more proactive on a generic prop such as this.

Doc

 

[Rogue Studios]

Just add it to the list they don't care.

 

[PHArchivist]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eaviii @ Mar 22 2007, 06:25 PM) [snapback]1445868[/snapback]</div>

I have generally had good interactions with PIH and they have a great deal at stake if the authenticity of their items comes into question. I suspect they will do right by this. My only complaints in the past has been provenance with items ("the catalog is the provenance" is the quote). Most of what I have bought from them is pretty obscure or unique so provenance is less of an issue. I would really hope they would be more proactive on a generic prop such as this.

Doc
[/b]

They do not hide or mask the fact that they do not guarantee authenticity, and any provenance or other paperwork that comes with an item is provided by the seller/consignor, not the auction house. They are not a retailer that provides their own CoA (such as Propstore or Starwares).

 

[PHArchivist]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(PHArchivist @ Mar 21 2007, 07:54 PM) [snapback]1445159[/snapback]</div>

PiH claims to make good faith efforts to authenticate, but common consensus here is that they really do not do full justice to the process. With auctions ranging from 400-600 lots in a hobby such as this, and when they are not legally obligated to do so (their fine print "legal-ese" disclaims them from this)

[/b]

From their FAQ
A quick note about Certificates of Authenticity. The Studios have recently begun selling props and costumes from their most current films, and in certain instances will supply an accompanying COA with their endorsement. However, caveat emptor. Many times, the studios themselves mis-identify their own pieces. WeÂ’ve handled consignments that were acquired directly from the studio or production company, yet the pieces are mis-matched, incorrect, or otherwise problematic as to film or actor use.
As with all props, costumes and set pieces, we encourage collectors to do their homework and actually watch the film prior to buying a piece. If you cannot positively identify the piece on-screen, it may not truly be what itÂ’s being advertised to be. Please be aware, however, that sometimes props and costumes are made for a film or television production and either not used on the set, or used in a scene which was later edited out of the film. In this case, you would obviously not see the artifact on-screen. Also, costumes are sometimes altered for use in a later film, and in that case would not match on-screen with the original version.
When buying from an individual, be wary of COAs issued by the seller – they’re typically not worth the paper they’re printed on. The only COAs of value are those signed by someone who actually worked on the film, or those from the studios themselves. And since most studios did not appreciate the value of their production artifacts until very recently, older items from film and television will typically not have any such studio COA.

And from their Conditions of Sale statement (the legal-ese/disclaimers)
All descriptions, photographs, illustrations, and terminology including but not
limited to words describing condition (including any condition reports requested
by Bidder), authorship, period, culture, source, origin, measurement, quality, rarity,
provenance, importance, exhibition, and relevance, used in the catalog, bill of sale,
invoice, or anywhere else, represent a good faith effort made by Profiles to fairly
represent the lots and property offered for sale as to origin, date, condition, and
other information contained therein; they are statements of opinion only. They
are not representations or warranties and Bidder agrees and acknowledges that he
or she shall not rely on them in determining whether or not to bid or for what
price. Price estimates (which are determined well in advance of the auction
and are therefore subject to revision) and condition reports are provided solely
as a convenience to Bidders and are not intended nor shall they be relied on by
Bidders as statements, representations or warranties of actual value or predictions
of final bid prices.
Bidders are accorded the opportunity to inspect the lots and to otherwise satisfy
themselves as to the nature and sufficiency of each lot prior to bidding, and
Profiles urges Bidders to avail themselves accordingly.

I reiterate -- this is not a defense; this is posted purely as informational