Probably too late, but need advice... I've been ripped off!

Ghost Host

Sr Member
I've been struggling for weeks about posting this, but really, there's no reason not to at this point. The short of it is that I paid $4000 (via Paypal) to "renowned" UK sculptor Mike Hill to sculpt a Walt Disney likeness and mold it and ship me the mold, nearly 5 years ago (summer of 2004); and still have nothing to show for it.

After I paid him, he pushed the start of the project back several months. He did get a good start on the bust, finally, but his quoted timeframe of 6 to 8 weeks shot by. After some nagging I got some progress photos that weren't bad, but I had some comments, which was part of the initial agreement that he consider my suggestions on certain details as I saw fit to mention. Then, after several more months went by, for some reason he decided on his own to resculpt the thing. I finally saw photos of it and it looked ok, but he just seemed to stop at that point. He had made a comment in passing that he wasn't into the likeness I commissioned him for. Then communication dropped to nearly nothing. Several more months went by. The only time I ever got any response from him was when I'd send a firm e-mail to him (but I never threatened him or used harsh language). I finally decided after over a year of no progress to ask for my money back. He was resistant, and for the most part continued to ignore me. At one point he did actually send me a check for $500, but nothing afterward. Several more months went by, I decided that I'd try a different approach and asked him for either one of his finished pieces in his collection, or ask him to sculpt something he might be more into, being as he's into Hammer films... so I suggested that he could do a Dave Prowse bust for me instead, if that would work better for him. He seemed excited at the prospect so we moved in that direction and I sent him alot of new reference material. But the same treatment continued towards my commission... nothing. Time went by and more e-mails and I even heard that he was producing a sculpting video last year so I contacted him and asked about including the Prowse bust in it, and he agreed. Now he won't even return e-mails and his phone has been disconnected.

Do I have any legal recourse after 4.5 years? Any suggestions on this issue with Mike Hill? I'd even take half of my money back and call it good, if I could. There are many other things I'd like to do with the money he's apparently stolen from me.
 
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So sorry to hear about this:angry I would be on the next train/bus/plane/boat/bike or whatever at his doorstep. I'm sure you have allready reported him to the local police, attorney general, and the like. I think after this amount of time, your best and only posible recourse would be small claims court.

All the best to you and yours though. I really hope everything works out for you.
 
4k? Seriously? I guess you have more disposable income than I do because if I spent that much on a prop, I would have had a signed contract and I would demand a weekly progress report even if there was no progress for the week. To me that's just way to much money to give the artist freedom to work on it at his leisure. But, hind-sight is 20/20. Very best of luck recovering anything more at this stage.
 
Hire an attorney and sue him, if you can find him. Let's face it, you waited entirely too long to deal with this.
 
Wow. His "In Progress" pics (from the site posted a few posts above) shows a picture from 3/31/2006. And that Joker looks more like Spider Jerusalem from Vertigo Comics' Transmetropolitan.

I think $4k is still small claims court, where you'll need a preponderance of the evidence to bring a claim against him. Shouldn't be too difficult; you may want to talk with a lawyer. Many will do a free sit-down to discuss the merits of the case.
 
I've been struggling for weeks about posting this, but really, there's no reason not to at this point. The short of it is that I paid $4000 (via Paypal) to "renowned" UK sculptor Mike Hill to sculpt a Walt Disney likeness and mold it and ship me the mold, nearly 5 years ago (summer of 2004); and still have nothing to show for it.

After I paid him, he pushed the start of the project back several months. He did get a good start on the bust, finally, but his quoted timeframe of 6 to 8 weeks shot by. After some nagging I got some progress photos that weren't bad, but I had some comments, which was part of the initial agreement that he consider my suggestions on certain details as I saw fit to mention. Then, after several more months went by, for some reason he decided on his own to resculpt the thing. I finally saw photos of it and it looked ok, but he just seemed to stop at that point. He had made a comment in passing that he wasn't into the likeness I commissioned him for. Then communication dropped to nearly nothing. Several more months went by. The only time I ever got any response from him was when I'd send a firm e-mail to him (but I never threatened him or used harsh language). I finally decided after over a year of no progress to ask for my money back. He was resistant, and for the most part continued to ignore me. At one point he did actually send me a check for $500, but nothing afterward. Several more months went by, I decided that I'd try a different approach and asked him for either one of his finished pieces in his collection, or ask him to sculpt something he might be more into, being as he's into Hammer films... so I suggested that he could do a Dave Prowse bust for me instead, if that would work better for him. He seemed excited at the prospect so we moved in that direction and I sent him alot of new reference material. But the same treatment continued towards my commission... nothing. Time went by and more e-mails and I even heard that he was producing a sculpting video last year so I contacted him and aske dabout including the Prowse bust in it, and he agreed. Now he won't even return e-mails and his phone has been disconnected.

Do I have any legal recourse after 4.5 years? Any suggestions on this issue with Mike Hill? I'd even take half of my money back and call it good, if I could. There are many other things I'd like to do with the money he's stolen from me.

As I understand it, u have no chance to get a single cent back from him.

Paypal states that after the payment was done, the seller has 45 days time to deliver the item.

You have to arrange yourself with the seller in an honest way (so says paypal). You have to save all the emails, the whole communication you did with the seller.

When you done all that, you send paypal the whole communication process (all the mails, the transaction nr. etc.) and you then can ask paypal to get your money back...but that HAS to happend before the 45 days are over. Then paypal decides what they will do. Whatever they will do, their decision is FINAL. You can do nothing about that, whatever the decision will be.

AFTER the 45 days u have no buyer protection and paypal is no longer interested in what happend to your money.

The only chance is to sue him with a lawyer...if you have the money and the guts to do that.

...paypal and ebay shall burn in hell.
 
As I understand it, u have no chance to get a single cent back from him.

Paypal states that after the payment was done, the seller has 45 days time to deliver the item.
Seeing as the deal started about 5 years ago... why worry about paypal claim end times?
 
"he wasn't into the likeness I commissioned him for"

That said it all for me. The "I don't want to do what I was hired for" would be the big big red waving flag to stop it right then and there. Unfortunately, you are pretty much screwed. Pursuing it legally can almost be as costly. I would find the web sites, forums and anywhere else he hawks himself and post your story, demanding answers and monies. Put him out of business on the web basically unless he wants to properly pay you back what is owed. I have done this a couple times. You will get some negative responses for doing so, but just note you have been honest and forthcoming and he has not. Make sue you really get to know where he is posting, if you pop a big enough dent in his own web business, it tends to make them realize it is better to settle up.
 
Seriously though, find someone to act on your behalf over here to see if it gets you anywhere.
 
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I think going forward, the "rule of thirds" should apply to this sort of costly business arrangement. One third is paid to secure the artisan's services. Another third is paid upon proof of sufficient progress on the project, to cover expenses, etc. The final third is paid on the completion of the project, and delivery of goods.

Anyone who doesn't agree to those terms probably can't be trusted. I don't think I'd pay $4k up front for anything.
 
It would be a huge problem retaining the services of a solicitor to pursue a small claims case as you are in the US and he's back in the UK. Even if you could find a solicitor the case the fees would probably out weigh the monies being sought.

Yes you can include legal fees in the court papers but with a small claims action there's still no guarantee you will receive any funds. The judge can order restitution and set a time frame for payment. But if the defendant defaults the courts aren't that willing to pursue the debtor for you then you have to seek other legal means of recovering the monies sought. I.E. go back to court prove default on the judgement and ask the court for an "attachment of earnings" whereby his earnings or a part thereof are diverted to you via the courts until the debt is settled. But even then it can be difficult if he wants to prove "exceptional circumstances" he makes so little money that diverting the funds would cause unusual hardships on his part.

I'm sorry to say but I think after this much time you might have to swallow the loss and move on. I know it stinks and isn't fair....I've been there and lost the money.
 
Never give in. These jerks should be pursued indefinitely! $4K is too much to ignore. Someone will do something about it.


Dave ;)
 
Even if you can't get your money back I'd try to go after his reputation. Once his name is mud he'll never be able to sell anything ever again. :lol
 
Hire an attorney and sue him, if you can find him. Let's face it, you waited entirely too long to deal with this.

Way too long mate. It's a shame that nice people like yourself get ripped off. I would be going to a lawyer & let them sort it out.That's what they are there for...especially for that amout of money. Good luck with it all.
 
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