Thanks. This is turning out to be more work than I thought it would be. :lol
Originally posted by CaptCBoard@Jun 11 2005, 05:14 AM
The paint used as the base color on all X-wings, Y-wings and the MF in ANH was Krylon Platinum Gray.Â It is not the same Platinum Gray available today, which is much darker.Â The closest match to what Krylon made in 1976 is Testors Camouflage Gray, though it is a bit on the pink side.
I have to point out that any paint info given by Bill George would only be accurate for ESB and later-- he did not work on ANH.Â My information comes from several people who did work (and paint) on that film, people I used to work with.Â When I was doing the research for my SS X-wing they were most helpful.Â
For ESB, Red 5 was a new, much larger model and if Bill says they used gloss white I can not dispute it.Â From what I know of the way base coats and weathering appear on film,Â gloss white makes no sense-- even with a flat black primer under it.Â But, none of that is important since the modeler really needs to determine what it is he's actually trying to achieve.
If you are building a model that duplicates an FX model, then the exact colors and how they were applied is important.
If you are building a model that duplicates what is seen on the screen, then you need to use your eye to determine what color to use.Â Why?
We'll take the X-wing as an example.Â This ship is supposed to be white with color markings on the fuselage, engine cowls and wings.Â If it were brand new, all of this would be bright and probably shiny.Â But, in the Star Wars world, especially the Rebel sections, these ships are old and well worn and the paint has suffered.Â That's what they want you to see on screen.Â However, back in 1976 using white on an FX model was very problematic.Â With the long exposures needed during motion-control photography, the weathering applied over white paint disappeared on film.Â Weathering, by its nature is translucent-- allowing the white underneath to show through.Â Pure white is just too bright to put weathering on top of and have it work properly.Â When they set the exposure, the cinematographer would take the weathering into account, but where the weathering was too thin, it not only didn't show up, but those areas would be overexposed.Â And even if the weathering was not a problem, they couldn't get a dense enough black in the shadows.Â Remember, motion picture lights are much different than any lighting any of us are used to.Â 3400 Kelvin light is way different than an ordinary 100 watt bulb.
So, the solution was to use a very light gray base (which is known today as 'one-stop gray).Â Stuff like weathering looks much better - on film - when painted over light gray.Â The last step in how the model appears on film involves the film lab.Â They adjust the timing when making the prints so the ships appear 'whiter' than they actually look to the eye.Â
(Short Story about White Paint...) A long time ago, I worked on "King Kong Lives".Â One of the miniature sets I built was this medical facility interior where Kong was getting a mechanical heart.Â The full-sized set was painted white, so we had to duplicate that on the miniature.Â But, during tests, they discovered that the ape-suit worn by the actor was so dark that we had to repaint the set 3-stops to the gray side.Â This way, when they overexposed the ape-suit by 3 stops, so you could see the texture of the hair, the gray set looked white on film.
The question of Floquil also comes up.Â I know they used both Concrete (to delineate panels) and Caboose Red (wing markings).Â This red is actually just 'primary red', so not having the Floquil on hand is not a problem as any primary red will do.Â The blue used was a Pactra color (Sea Blue, if I recall correctly).Â It isn't available, but a 95% match is Tamiya Medium Blue (XF 18).
I know that's a long explaination, but if you know why certain things are done, you can make a more informed decision.
Originally posted by CaptCBoard@Jun 11 2005, 04:50 PM
Sorry, guys, I wasn't trying to say I am right and others are wrong and if I came off that way I apologize.Â Paint is definitely a subjective topic and, to a certain extent, X-wings can be as well.Â
I researched what was done during the construction of the ANH X-wings since that was what my SS kit represented.Â My sources were Dave Beasley and David Jones, two of the six model builders listed in the credits of ANH; as well as Bruce MacRae.Â Bruce is an FX model painter and has also gathered information on these things over the years, from orginal sources.Â I know there were more than six guys who worked as modelers on ANH, but I believe Pat McClung worked on ESB only.Â Which is fine as he'd be a good resource for Snow Speeders and AT-AT and other things from ESB.
I should like to point out that all my information pertains to ANH X-wings only.Â I may not have made that clear in my prior post.Â X-wings built for ESB and ROTJ have to be pointed out as being a separate subject as they are much larger than the ANH models (and so the SS kits) and how they were painted would have been way different-- including the use of gloss white paint and black primer.Â My comments are specific to the ANH X-wings since the SS kits are usually what people are referring to when asking about "what colors were used".Â If they are not asking about SS kits specifically, then my information doesn't apply, other than to be considered as a general guide.Â
We have seen many great looking models of X-wings, all painted using different techniques and different colors, so we know more than one approach works and works well. But, the question asked was "what colors were used", not "what colors could be used".Â This is why any description of how the ESB model was painted might not be as pertinent as how the ANH model was painted.Â True, both models are X-wings and in the end they look identical on film. But, just as the paint differs from X-wings of different sizes, so do the parts used as detail.Â For instance, the Saturn 5 parts used on the ANH models would have to be recreated in a larger scale as closely as possible on the ESB Red 5 model, but no one brings that up when someone asks, "What kit parts were used to detail the X-wing?" That discussion always centers on what was done on the original ANH models.Â So, unless someone specifically asks "What colors were used on the ESB models", I have to assume they want to know about the ANH models, since that is most likely the kit they have.
Floquil was definitely the best at the time due to range of colors and the fact they were nice and flat.Â Why the subject of "who said what about Floquil first" came up is a mystery to me.Â I just reported on the two colors I know about.Â I'm sure the rest of the line was used, but I don't have any further specific color info to pass along.
I think part of the problem comes from what the final result is supposed to represent.Â When I built my personal X-wing model of Red 5, I was recreating the FX model so I painted it using the information I had gathered.Â Some guys will do the same thing I did, while others will complete their model as a 'model of an X-wing'.Â They will put in a cockpit that is accurate to what was in the full-size version and make other modifications such that the finished model is as close to what a 'real' X-wing would be.Â The great thing about this hobby is both guys are correct.
Originally posted by TK9120@Jun 15 2005, 11:13 PM
Thanks for those pics MR. I knew from seeing Lee's Fett helmets that the X-wing was porbably right on. I just didn't have any pics at hand to check.
Originally posted by Rogue Studios+Jun 17 2005, 02:04 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rogue Studios @ Jun 17 2005, 02:04 AM)</div><!--QuoteBegin-moffeaton@Jun 16 2005, 09:53 PM
Is that a Thunderfighter I spy in that last pic?
any chance you know where a fella could get one?
Throw that man a dollar. I'll see what I can dig up for ya.
Originally posted by DARKSIDE72@Jun 17 2005, 06:23 PM
Actually CC you are incorrect about this "gray" paint for ANH models. In several vintage ANH publications it is stated that the painting technique used was a black primer, this gives depth and makes it so the outer paint layer can be rubbed or buffed away to create weathering/damage. The main coat was an automotive hard/white enamel, now it doesn't state whether or not it was gloss of flat, but if gloss is used as Lee said then dulled down with steel wool and weathering the model will reflect light at certain angles giving it a metallic realism. Liquid frisket was applied and the details were painted with foqual paints. The ANH falcon,x-wing,tie fighter, y-wing, star destroyer,Blockade runner, were all painted the same way.
The ideal that white doesn't work well for models on film is rediculous, look at Space 1999,Alien,Star Trek, for examples of white ships which show up beautifully on film.
X-wing primed black,(they seem to do this in stages as they detail) also see the Chronicles escape pod for more proof of the black prime.