Origins of the ROTJ Vader helmets: JY thread continuation

[vader71]

Exactly so the subject of a supposed run and backing up statements Gino stated he had 'three independent sources' telling him of this run.

I asked a direct question to Gino to name these sources - I didn't expect it to be answered - and it wasn't.

Basically Gino says his 3 sources say there is a list for a run being gathered so therefore hypothetically -

1. Gino has three independent sources - who by breaking their word on keeping the run private so are untrustworthy and liars making Gino an associate of these people.

2. Gino has been lied to about a list for a run making his trusted associates untrustworthy and liars.

3. There are no sources and this story of a run has been fabricated to add weight to an argument that Brian has something to gain.

No matter what the scenario I would still appreciate an answer on who Gino's sources are or without any backing up of such a claim I personally am treating his 'statement' as a total fabrication.

Chris

This is worth bringing back to the front of this discussion.

 

[KnightAsylum]

Don't have much faith in the staffs decision on this either as far as impartiality is concerned, considering at least 2 have already defended his remarks in this thread.

Defstartrooper if you have an issue with staff comments please feel free to direct those concerns to the staff. Making general accusations of staff members based on your interpretations of their intentions is not appropriate in this thread.

Everyone please stay on topic.

 

[Brian Muir]

No, I said Brian DID put provenance on the helmet. GINO said Brian was misinformed, not that he put false provenance. In the paragraph you've quoted, there is a true and a false statement in there. LEt analyze it, hmm?


By saying his friend confirmed where this helmet came from, even though it is hearsay, Brian did indeed bolster his helmet. Again, we as collectors do this all of the time.



This statement is markedly false. We do not know. That said, it is IMPOSSIBLE for GINO to state that Brian made a decision to do a run.

Now, here is the thing, we take the bolstering of Brian's helmet at face value. People have not questioned his word, have they? He told us where the helmet came from, we took it at that. How is this any different than what GINO has done in the past? Is it because Brian scultped Vader? By his own admission, Brian has no clue if there was a new mold for RotJ. He is taking his friend's word that he cast two or three new helmets for RotJ, since he was not involved in that production. Again, hello hearsay.

I was told I am fighting a losing battle, and this may be true. Fact of the matter is, I am trying to make some of you look at both sides of this nasty business. I don't know how else to do it.

I thought you said you were done on this but you don't seem to be able to leave it alone.
If you state that whatever proof I have offered is hearsay because I did not pull the casts from the mould myself? Would you believe that?
As you did not work on any of the productions then anything you or Gino have to say is HEARSAY on your terms.
Why have you taken on this crusade? You think that no one here can make up their own mind on who or what to believe? They have all the facts before them why does your interpretation count for anything? In your own words you say you don't know much about Vader - Gino pointed you in the right direction :confused


Brian

 

[rocketeer25]

Can someone tell me at what point the discussion of the props ended in this thread? I'm not going to go back (again) through this thread to figure it out.

One thing that is not cool, is carrying on an arguement at the RPF that started on another board. I'm not saying that is the case here, but I do see a lot of mention of things transpiring some place else. Those people need to keep their garbage in thier own back yards. Bring the prop talk to the RPF, by all means. But leave the dirty laundry elsewhere.

So a question to the members reading this train wreck...

Is there anything served by letting this thread continue? Do we lock it or attempt to prune out the crap and let it continue for a few more pages before the conversation turns from the prop to the personalities involved again?

The staff will be looking through this thread either way to see if anyone has earned an infraction point.

 

[Qui-Gonzalez]

What is this if it's not an accusation of adding false provenance on the helmet to sell copies ?

If Brian believes it to be true, then he is not placing false provenance on anything.

And before you try spinning it again any provenance GINO says Brian is placing on the helmet(bolstering for the semantic minded among us) has to be false in GINO's eyes because according to him there were no helmets made specifically for ROTJ.

This helmet was not a RotJ screen helmet. We know this much. It was a pull from a mold purported to have been used on RotJ.

The core of this whooooole thing is belief. Some are willing to accept someone's word over another...without evidence. Hell, I have been guilty of it before. I believe what Brian said. I have no proof to believe it, but I do. That's my business. Some folks believe what they want.

 

[Qui-Gonzalez]

Brian, I am going to state this hear. I offer my sincerest apology to you. I in no means meant to come off as anything but looking at both sides. I definitely did not mean for my post about LFL watching the RPF to be a threat. It really was not. Sometimes, you can do more harm by trying to say the right thing than by shutting the hell up.

Like I said earlier, I believe you when you said where you helmet came from. I still do.

Rocketeer, I say kill it. All that can be said has been said. It's a merry-go-round now, and I want off of it.

 

[defstartrooper]

Defstartrooper if you have an issue with staff comments please feel free to direct those concerns to the staff. Making general accusations of staff members based on your interpretations of their intentions is not appropriate in this thread.

Everyone please stay on topic.

No reminder to Qui ? afterall it was he that mentioned staff first, hence my reply.

 

[lambotour]

This thread should never have been re-opened. All it did was give those that didn't get their two cents in, or three in some cases, a chance to spew more venom. I admit that I got drawn into the nonsense and added to the negativity.

RK25, in reference to garbage, unfortunately that's always been the case here for at least the last 10 years with anything vader related. The majority of vader threads almost always end up this way, so there has been and still is a lot of garbage here on the RPF. It filters out of here to other forums and then back into here.

I say you might as well lock the thread.

 

[defstartrooper]

If Brian believes it to be true, then he is not placing false provenance on anything.

No he isn't but your pal is accusing him of it which is apparently cool :thumbsdown

 

[vader71]

All the Vader threas end in a lock and this one is way past due.

 

[Brian Muir]

Brian, I am going to state this hear. I offer my sincerest apology to you. I in no means meant to come off as anything but looking at both sides. I definitely did not mean for my post about LFL watching the RPF to be a threat. It really was not. Sometimes, you can do more harm by trying to say the right thing than by shutting the hell up.

Like I said earlier, I believe you when you said where you helmet came from. I still do.

Rocketeer, I say kill it. All that can be said has been said. It's a merry-go-round now, and I want off of it.

That's easy - leave it alone and let's get back to the topic that this thread is about.

Brian

 

[Qui-Gonzalez]

That's easy - leave it alone and let's get back to the topic that this thread is about.

Brian

Works for me. Really sorry man.

So, where were we?

 

[Hecubus114]

maybe its just me but I think one thing this thread needs is for EVERYONE to admit the possibility that they themselves may not be right.

Not being a vader expert by any means, and practically not knowing any of you at all, I think I can say I am completely unbiased on this subject. It seems most of this thread is nitpicking over the exact words people have used. Because of that, someone such has myself has become completely lost to whatever the actual subject being debated over actually is. So, let me see if I have it right...

GINO says that all ROTJ helmets are reused ESB helmets? Yes?

Brian says no, new ROTJ were made? He has a casting of one of these?

GINO says that Brian is misinformed about the origin of this helmet? Has he given any facts to prove so? Has Brian given any proof to the contrary?

I'm sure I am missing/misunderstanding MAJOR parts of this, but with this jumbled mess the thread has become, thats the best I can get out of it... please correct anything/everything I am wrong about.

And again, not on anyone's side - I'm too confused to have a side, LOL...

 

[defstartrooper]

maybe its just me but I think one thing this thread needs is for EVERYONE to admit the possibility that they themselves may not be right.

Not being a vader expert by any means, and practically not knowing any of you at all, I think I can say I am completely unbiased on this subject. It seems most of this thread is nitpicking over the exact words people have used. Because of that, someone such has myself has become completely lost to whatever the actual subject being debated over actually is. So, let me see if I have it right...

GINO says that all ROTJ helmets are reused ESB helmets? Yes?

Brian says no, new ROTJ were made? He has a casting of one of these?

GINO says that Brian is misinformed about the origin of this helmet? Has he given any facts to prove so? Has Brian given any proof to the contrary?

I'm sure I am missing/misunderstanding MAJOR parts of this, but with this jumbled mess the thread has become, thats the best I can get out of it... please correct anything/everything I am wrong about.

And again, not on anyone's side - I'm too confused to have a side, LOL...

Pretty much right and GIno hasn't given any facts to prove he is right but has accused Brian of "bolstering" the origins of his helmet for profit.
Brian got it from the guy that cast the helmet during the production it's up to GINO the accuser to prove otherwise, at least that's how this forum works for everyone else.

 

[Too Much Garlic]

Can someone tell me at what point the discussion of the props ended in this thread? I'm not going to go back (again) through this thread to figure it out.

One thing that is not cool, is carrying on an arguement at the RPF that started on another board. I'm not saying that is the case here, but I do see a lot of mention of things transpiring some place else. Those people need to keep their garbage in thier own back yards. Bring the prop talk to the RPF, by all means. But leave the dirty laundry elsewhere.

So a question to the members reading this train wreck...

Is there anything served by letting this thread continue? Do we lock it or attempt to prune out the crap and let it continue for a few more pages before the conversation turns from the prop to the personalities involved again?

The staff will be looking through this thread either way to see if anyone has earned an infraction point.

I haven't had time to re-read this whole train-wreck, but most of the stuff that is new, from the last time it was locked is pretty much OT and useless to the discussion of RotJ helmets and is basically just accusations and mud-slinging and character assassinations.

When the thread was first locked a thread was created on The Den to carry on the discussion, then it restarted here - there was no dirt carried over from there to here - most of the dirt happened in this very thread.

At least that's my opinion of it and all are free to disagree all they want.

 

[Qui-Gonzalez]

I haven't had time to re-read this whole train-wreck, but most of the stuff that is new, from the last time it was locked is pretty much OT and useless to the discussion of RotJ helmets and is basically just accusations and mud-slinging and character assassinations.

When the thread was first locked a thread was created on The Den to carry on the discussion, then it restarted here - there was no dirt carried over from there to here - most of the dirt happened in this very thread.

At least that's my opinion of it and all are free to disagree all they want.

No Carsten, you are correct. The fact is, there are more diverse personalities here than there are on the Den. People are going to clash.

 

[Star Wars Helmets]

No Carsten, you are correct. The fact is, there are more diverse personalities here than there are on the Den. People are going to clash.

Yes, people are going to clash. Especially when Gino makes a wild, unsubstantiated accusation that Brian was trying to profit by "bolstered up so that it can be later cashed in on".

Everyone ends up shouting at everyone else and Gino skulks off into the distance and then a few days later just carries on where he left off.

How many times is this going to happen?

Cheers

Jez

 

[Trap Joe]

Yes, people are going to clash. Especially when Gino makes a wild, unsubstantiated accusation that Brian was trying to profit by "bolstered up so that it can be later cashed in on".

Everyone ends up shouting at everyone else and Gino skulks off into the distance and then a few days later just carries on where he left off.

How many times is this going to happen?

Cheers

Jez

I find this sad too. Disturber and haters like him should go to psychiatrist - not to a forum like this, and make unsubstantiated accusation against his idol and us "ordinary" members. It´s so hideous!