Opinion Thread Vader Experts, what's the origin...

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Interesting questions SithLord.

My interpretation of that last question is that once you sell the original item or mold, then you have automatically signed off on ownership over the item or mold and also the right to continue to produce copies.

But this is just how I feel about it, though, others may disagree.

I know of several prop makers who have sold copies cast from molds of original items the maker no longer owns or has any rights over or permission to sell casts from.

I guess this is a more tricky question than I first thought, when starting to reply to it.

Because, how about molds made from original props that was never in the maker's possession or if the "owner" decides to take back his or her approval of copies being made and the maker decides not to honor that... I dunno... apparently, it is not as simple as I would like it to be. :p
 
LOL...ya with emphasis on MURKY ;).... tends to get that way when I think out loud...Thomas thinking out loud for too long>>>> :confused :confused :confused :eek :eek:

:lol
 
Originally posted by SithLord@Apr 12 2006, 05:08 PM
LOL...ya with emphasis on MURKY ;).... tends to get that way when I think out loud...Thomas thinking out loud for too long>>>> :confused :confused  :confused  :eek  :eek:   

:lol
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Lets all run and hide, Thomas thinking out loud may be too much for all our ears to handle... :lol
 
What the...? A Vader origin thread where people are getting on? No, it can't be.

But I'm glad it is. Woot. :D And yes, Vader does rule. :love (I love him, but not in the Padme kind of way.)
 
Heyall, the pic of the finished helmet on page 1 is of the helmet i bought from wolfmorgan a few years ago...can anyone tell me if he recast a fiberdyne or a GH? its a nice job and a nice paint job...he said it came from don post etc. etc....i have some pics of it as it sits in my collection if anyone wants to host em for inspection...im wondering if its a good vader anh and who made it...?thanx curt

Originally posted by yakcam@Apr 6 2006, 11:55 AM
Standard reply and Inserting generic and informative link here....

Hi  :)

Here's a link......

http://web.ukonline.co.uk/bingo275/vaderfananh.htm

Ok, ok, I'm a smart @ss :p

Cheers,

Kraig
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Are you referring to the pic on the bottom Left?
Fyberdynete1.jpg


Originally posted by jedivigneri@Apr 12 2006, 08:08 PM
Heyall,  the pic of the finished helmet on page 1 is of the helmet i bought from wolfmorgan a few years ago...can anyone tell me if he recast a fiberdyne or a GH? its a nice job and a nice paint job...he said it came from don post etc. etc....i have some pics of it as it sits in my collection if anyone wants to host em for inspection...im wondering if its a good vader anh and who made it...?thanx curt
 
Originally posted by jedivigneri+Apr 12 2006, 11:08 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jedivigneri @ Apr 12 2006, 11:08 PM)</div>
Heyall,  the pic of the finished helmet on page 1 is of the helmet i bought from wolfmorgan a few years ago...can anyone tell me if he recast a fiberdyne or a GH? its a nice job and a nice paint job...he said it came from don post etc. etc....i have some pics of it as it sits in my collection if anyone wants to host em for inspection...im wondering if its a good vader anh and who made it...?thanx curt

<!--QuoteBegin-yakcam
@Apr 6 2006, 11:55 AM
Standard reply and Inserting generic and informative link here....

Hi  :)

Here's a link......

http://web.ukonline.co.uk/bingo275/vaderfananh.htm

Ok, ok, I'm a smart @ss :p

Cheers,

Kraig
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Photos duly hosted :)....


Vd1.jpg


Vd2.jpg


quite nice...
 
Originally posted by jedivigneri@Apr 13 2006, 03:08 AM
Heyall,  the pic of the finished helmet on page 1 is of the helmet i bought from wolfmorgan a few years ago...can anyone tell me if he recast a fiberdyne or a GH? its a nice job and a nice paint job...he said it came from don post etc. etc....i have some pics of it as it sits in my collection if anyone wants to host em for inspection...im wondering if its a good vader anh and who made it...?thanx curt

If there's the remnant of a dome latch on the forehead then your helmet is either a Fyberdyne recast or made from the same molds that produced it. If there's no evidence of a latch then it's either a recast of the VM01 or this Wolfmorgan guy has made the same modifications that the late Vadermaker made.

To be honest it looks just like a VM01 helmet to me. It was a good ANH helmet for its time, still better than the likes of a DP CA but has since been superceeded by better replicas.
 
Looks a lot like a VM01 to me as well. Which imo isn't a bad thing at all. Maybe not the most accurate technically, but probably the most menacing of the Vader helmets. Once again, in my opinion.

PICT0008csd.jpg
 
I agree. It's my personal favorite, not for accuracy but overall appearance. There's just something about it.

Originally posted by PnatheraGem@Apr 15 2006, 06:47 PM
Looks a lot like a VM01 to me as well. Which imo isn't a bad thing at all. Maybe not the most accurate technically, but probably the most menacing of the Vader helmets. Once again, in my opinion.

PICT0008csd.jpg

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Originally posted by DarthKahnt@Apr 16 2006, 05:40 AM
I agree. It's my personal favorite, not for accuracy but overall appearance. There's just something about it.
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I agree... sometimes accuracy isn't all... it is the FEEL of the thing that is sometimes more important than even accuracy - how we perceive it should look, rather than how it actually looks in real life. If it LOOKS right, then it doesn't matter if it is accurate or not. The Vader helmet is a feeling, an appearance, a memory... of something mean and sinister... and the more accurate the prop is to the original the closer you get to that feeling, but sometimes props that are not entirely accurate still manage to convey that feeling that the original has.

Or am I speaking nonsense? :rolleyes
 
Originally posted by NoHumorMan+Apr 16 2006, 02:42 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(NoHumorMan @ Apr 16 2006, 02:42 AM)</div>
<!--QuoteBegin-DarthKahnt
@Apr 16 2006, 05:40 AM
I agree. It's my personal favorite, not for accuracy but overall appearance. There's just something about it.
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I agree... sometimes accuracy isn't all... it is the FEEL of the thing that is sometimes more important than even accuracy - how we perceive it should look, rather than how it actually looks in real life. If it LOOKS right, then it doesn't matter if it is accurate or not. The Vader helmet is a feeling, an appearance, a memory... of something mean and sinister... and the more accurate the prop is to the original the closer you get to that feeling, but sometimes props that are not entirely accurate still manage to convey that feeling that the original has.

Or am I speaking nonsense? :rolleyes
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Not trying to get too ot, but I know exactly what you mean. The VM takes me back to the emotional connection of seeing Vader for the first time in '77 when I was three. Yes, I remember that and my VM brings back that feeling like no other helmet I've seen.

Should probably start a thread on the VM itself. Graham Campbell did an amazing job and I only wish he were around so I could give him a simple "thank you".

K, sorry for the departure.
 
Continuing this topic:

But why not simply call it the "Propsculptor Helmet", since that is basically what it is.

Naming it the "Mystery" helmet implies something that it is not - yes, it's origins may be a bit of a mystery, but naming it a "mystery helmet" would only make people think that it has direct links to a screen used item, which it clearly does not, as it is from the GH/Jeff/Fyberdyne helmet family tree. And THAT link is NO mystery, since it can be clearly established from the photos.
 
If you can prove your point, please do so, otherwise it's just an opinion without evidence to back it up.

I want to actually prove it's source (If that's even possible), not make claims on where it came from, that's why I started this thread.

I agreed with somone's naming of the title, because no-one has actually proven the source.
I tried for sometime to contact Jeff W. and the others mentioned and received no response at all.

If anyone else can prove where this Helmet came from, then post the information here.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(NoHumorMan @ Apr 21 2006, 01:48 PM) [snapback]1230725[/snapback]</div>
Continuing this topic:

But why not simply call it the "Propsculptor Helmet", since that is basically what it is.

Naming it the "Mystery" helmet implies something that it is not - yes, it's origins may be a bit of a mystery, but naming it a "mystery helmet" would only make people think that it has direct links to a screen used item, which it clearly does not, as it is from the GH/Jeff/Fyberdyne helmet family tree. And THAT link is NO mystery, since it can be clearly established from the photos.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(propsculptor @ Apr 21 2006, 10:58 PM) [snapback]1230730[/snapback]</div>
If you can prove your point, please do so, otherwise it's just an opinion without evidence to back it up.

I want to actually prove it's source (If that's even possible), not make claims on where it came from, that's why I started this thread.

I agreed with somone's naming of the title, because no-one has actually proven the source.
I tried for sometime to contact Jeff W. and the others mentioned and received no response at all.

If anyone else can prove where this Helmet came from, then post the information here.
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I find this highly questionable. No one can prove where this cast came from but the guy you bought it from and the guy he bought it from all the way back to who casted it. That's the only way to get the answer to your question - that is not for me to answer. I can only give my two cents on what I think it originated from - I can NEVER prove anything, since I didn't cast it or buy it and resell it... I have no way of knowing the truth of its origin.

It could have come directly from the Jeff mold or someone could have made a cast of one of the GH family tree helmets and sold it. Who knows, but the original caster of the helmet you got. I have no way of proving whether it is either or, but it shares too many structural similarities to the GH family tree Vader helmets - especially the face - to be of anything outside that family.

Basically, it is not up to me to prove it's lineage, but basically up to you, since you are about to offer it up for sale on some, imo, very questionable grounds. You still haven't figured out its origins - not having gotten a reply back from Jeff or any other mentioned who might be the original maker, is not to be considered a green light to make casts and sell copies. Heck, the maker of this particular helmet, doesn't even HAVE to be one of the people mentioned, but could be someone who bought one of the helmets and then made a cast of it for some odd reason and then desided to sell it. The only way to find out is to ask the one you bought it from to reveal who he/she bought it from and so on back in the chain of owners. You could basically be sitting with a recast of a recast, cleaned up, sharpened, recast again. Who knows except the previous owners.?

But it still doesn't detract from the photographic evidence, which you have yourself provided that this is in no doubt a member of the GH family tree, as so clearly shown in the comparison photo by Sithlord on page 3, post 4 & RKW on the same page, post 8 in this very topic. Though there are subtle changes between the various casts there are some key features that are integral to these helmet: the nose ridges are angled the wrong way, the teeth are angled the wrong way, the cheeks are curved wrong and are going in a straight line up to the eyes, where the originals are curved, the eyes are more oval and many more minor details that are hard to correct when cleaning up the cast.

Your helmet shares these traits with the helmets in the GH family tree - that's why it can only have come from that source... any of them... in any number of ways. But the only way to get the truth is to get the truth from the one who sold it to you about where he got it from.

I'm still very surprised that you can offer casts of a helmet, which you apparently know nothing about. And since you don't know where it came from, then how can you have gotten permission to make casts of it other than from the guy you bought it from - but if he isn't the one who made the helmet, then he has absolutely NO right to give you permission to cast it.

But, since I am over-ruled in the recasting issue I will not pursue this any further. I just find it questionable, also the price you are asking for casts of this helmet, but seeing as you have no scrouples to offer this without knowing the truth about the helmet and that people will sign up to buy then I guess it won't really matter what I have to say, except that I definitely won't be signing up to buy one...

I bid you good luck in your future business, since it seems you'll be making a s**tload of money from this project.
 
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