Goodwolf
Sr Member
A minor quibble, but that finger on the trigger is driving me nuts.
New Doctor Who Series Discussion *Spoilers*
- Thread starter silverskyes402
- Start date
A minor quibble, but that finger on the trigger is driving me nuts.
d_jedi1
Sr Member
well, to be fair, I doubt Rory (or Arthur for that matter) has had much weapons training...
MOST people with no weapons training will keep their trigger finger inside the guard and on the trigger. After all, they do that on TV and in movies... right?
The rest of us keep it outside until it's go-time.
JBReplicas
Master Member
Just getting the thread warmed up for the finale. 
About to start it!
About to start it!
Well, that was a bit of a let down for me.
It never really seemed to get going. Any time there seemed to be any buildup or pacing starting they'd change scenes and abandon the tension. For instance, I really didn't get the sense that the Silence were moments away from breaking into the top of the pyramid.
This would have been much better as a two parter, but it would have also been better if it was just written better.
There was no real conclusion, no triumph at the end. The whole thing was just a bit "meh" for me.
...Though I liked it better than the Big Bang. (Not saying much)
-Nick
It never really seemed to get going. Any time there seemed to be any buildup or pacing starting they'd change scenes and abandon the tension. For instance, I really didn't get the sense that the Silence were moments away from breaking into the top of the pyramid.
This would have been much better as a two parter, but it would have also been better if it was just written better.
There was no real conclusion, no triumph at the end. The whole thing was just a bit "meh" for me.
...Though I liked it better than the Big Bang. (Not saying much)
-Nick
Kerr Avon
Master Member
carl9149
Well-Known Member
Dissapointed me this series was really expecting alot more with how it started. Leaving things open still for River to come back next series, meh. Have we seen enough of her? I see the point in keeping her, she is a nice addition to an episode filler, and a great actress. I'm just left feeling like i'm wanting MORE of the old school doctor who. I'm all for new villans, but the old school evil could have still been included in afew of the episodes.
And the question, Doctor Who? Who? could the next series be the FLESH living the doctors life?
Well guess we will see
And the question, Doctor Who? Who? could the next series be the FLESH living the doctors life?
Well guess we will see
Rotwang
Sr Member
This one just felt a little ood to me.
As much as I want to like Smith and I really do, he just doesn't cut it. I know he's supposed to be a bit excentric and all that, but there is something off about this version of the doctor.
As for the plots, RTD wasn't the best of writers, but Moffat's arcs are just too convoluted and badly set up.
I think the real problem is that any possible tension is completely defused because we know the doctor will take us back to the status quo. I would like to see the doctor lose a battle or two, to show he's not perfect and nothing can't touch him and he's always a step ahead.
As much as I want to like Smith and I really do, he just doesn't cut it. I know he's supposed to be a bit excentric and all that, but there is something off about this version of the doctor.
As for the plots, RTD wasn't the best of writers, but Moffat's arcs are just too convoluted and badly set up.
I think the real problem is that any possible tension is completely defused because we know the doctor will take us back to the status quo. I would like to see the doctor lose a battle or two, to show he's not perfect and nothing can't touch him and he's always a step ahead.
Birdie
Master Member
Basically, and I've watched it twice now, the reason it seemed so dramatically inert, is because the episode was entireley exposition, from start to finish.
Albeit prettily wrapped expostion. Everything was played out entireley to wrap up as many questions that had been set up over the season as possible. On those terms I kinda liked it, inasmuch as it didn't fall into such horrible holes as some expostion dump clunkers (X-Files, anyone?) and didn't fall into Big Bang trap of imcomprehensible nonensense. It had a kind of elegance.
On the other hand, as you pointed out, as a long awaited piece of climatic drama it was a pretty huge failiure :lol
The idea of the Doctor going way under the radar next season sounds appealing, but after the awful mess of tone, timey-wimey babble, and lack of decent story telling this time round, my faith in Moffat just ain't there.
Oh, and maybe the mysterious big question is actually 'When are you going to tell us why the bleeding Tardis blew up?!? :angry
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Birdie
Master Member
Was that intentional? :lol
Agreed about Smith, he's got worse over this season in my opinion. I don't feel any substance there, he's all tics and idiot savant one liners. I guess my desire to see a more mature cool headed Doctor, in the line of McGann or Eccleston, after Tennant, has always coloured my opinion.
I just don't find Smith's performance likeable, or of having the 'other-worldliness' the best Doctors have.
Organic Mechanic
Sr Member
Well, it seems I'm in the minority again. lol
I truly like the way they ended this season. No, it wasn't perfect, especially the way he escaped death, but it was exactly what DW has always been: Fun, exciting, a little confusing, a lot of nonsense, and at the end of the day nothing in the Universe actually changes, thanks to the Doctor's shenanigans.
Now I just pray that the insinuation that next season will be Doctor driven, not companion driven comes to fruition.
Also, it has taken two full years, but Matt Smith finally doesn't feel wrong in the role for me. He's a bit manic, yeah, but no more so than 2, 4, 6, 7, 8, or 10.
I truly like the way they ended this season. No, it wasn't perfect, especially the way he escaped death, but it was exactly what DW has always been: Fun, exciting, a little confusing, a lot of nonsense, and at the end of the day nothing in the Universe actually changes, thanks to the Doctor's shenanigans.
Now I just pray that the insinuation that next season will be Doctor driven, not companion driven comes to fruition.
Also, it has taken two full years, but Matt Smith finally doesn't feel wrong in the role for me. He's a bit manic, yeah, but no more so than 2, 4, 6, 7, 8, or 10.
greatwazoo42
Master Member
I'm with Merc and OM; I was very satsified. Liked a lot of it, loved some of it and that little bit about the Brig having passed quietly in his sleep (as the 7th Doctor predicted in Battlefield) put a massive lump in my throat. I'm not sure if my having met and befriended Nick Courtney had everything to do with that or just some but I'm very, very moved that they added that nod to his passing.
As for 11 feeling not part of the lineage: I said it a while ago that his moment for me where he truly felt like the Doctor came in Closing Time when he was talking to "Stormy" but really was talking to himself. There he transformed from sometimes charming mostly manic idiot to The Doctor. Watch that scene again and tell me what you think.
As for 11 feeling not part of the lineage: I said it a while ago that his moment for me where he truly felt like the Doctor came in Closing Time when he was talking to "Stormy" but really was talking to himself. There he transformed from sometimes charming mostly manic idiot to The Doctor. Watch that scene again and tell me what you think.
Organic Mechanic
Sr Member
Having never met the esteemed Mr. Courtney, I can assure you that it wasn't a prerequisite for getting choked up when the Doctor found out the Brig had passed. That was a truly emotional moment.
I also noted the continuity in the scene. In fact, it lends itself to my personal belief that 7 was, despite popular opinion, the most 'important' of the Doctors thus far. This is probably due to the writers trying to give him a sense of implied history, but whatever the reason he seems tied to everything that's happened, or that we think happened.
I'll be sure to give Closing Time another watch tomorrow to revisit that scene. :thumbsup
DuneMuadDib
Sr Member
I too was satisfied. It was a nice change to have something a little smaller rather than "what impossible number of Daleks can we throw at the Doctor now?" finales of years past. As soon as the Tesseract showed up I saw how he'd get out of it (never bough into the Ganger theories) but when they did the reveal I'd been so distracted by the episode I forgot for a moment. That was a pleasant surprise, and I appreciate that Moffat's finales (imo anyway) at least set up the solution well in advance rather than being a last-minute asspull like RTD's run.
It's a shame more here aren't enjoying the new direction the show has taken. I can understand it, what with the marked shift things have taken but I'm sold on it. For me there are fewer unwatchable episodes of Moffat's era than any two series/seasons of RTD's.
Can't wait for more, too bad it's going to be such a long wait. I'm curious to see the Doctor flying under the radar and how long he can keep that going.
Slight aside, anyone think the Doctor is really 1103 now as he claimed before "dying" in "The Impossible Astronaut" or is that just another "the Doctor lies" moment?
It's a shame more here aren't enjoying the new direction the show has taken. I can understand it, what with the marked shift things have taken but I'm sold on it. For me there are fewer unwatchable episodes of Moffat's era than any two series/seasons of RTD's.
Can't wait for more, too bad it's going to be such a long wait. I'm curious to see the Doctor flying under the radar and how long he can keep that going.
Slight aside, anyone think the Doctor is really 1103 now as he claimed before "dying" in "The Impossible Astronaut" or is that just another "the Doctor lies" moment?
greatwazoo42
Master Member
I think they called it the "Cartmell Masterplan" which was to unfold over several seasons in the lat 1980's. You can see hints of it like in Silver Nemesis where Lady Painfort explains that she knows the Doctor's greatest secret in that he is much more than just a Time Lord. Sadly a certain politician put pressure on the BBC to kill Doctor Who instead of invest more in it.
The idea was expanded upon in the Seventh Doctor novels and culminated in Lungbarrow, the last of the Virgin novels in the 7th Doctor Series where it was revealed that he was the incarnation of the mysterious Other who was the secret member of the triumverant with Rassilon and Omega. I'm seeing bits and bobs dropped in here and there in the new series that they may be reviving parts or even all of that concept of backstory. Since I loved the whole idea and everything that went into it I'd love to see that on screen.
Further reading:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Other_(Doctor_Who)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartmel_Masterplan
The idea was expanded upon in the Seventh Doctor novels and culminated in Lungbarrow, the last of the Virgin novels in the 7th Doctor Series where it was revealed that he was the incarnation of the mysterious Other who was the secret member of the triumverant with Rassilon and Omega. I'm seeing bits and bobs dropped in here and there in the new series that they may be reviving parts or even all of that concept of backstory. Since I loved the whole idea and everything that went into it I'd love to see that on screen.
Further reading:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Other_(Doctor_Who)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartmel_Masterplan
DuneMuadDib
Sr Member
The problem there is Lungbarrow refers to Time Lords being loomed as fully grown, right? Why would the Doctor have needed a cradle then, and why would the Master have been a small child when he looked into the Time Vortex?
Organic Mechanic
Sr Member
DuneMuadDib...can I just call you Paul? lol.
I do not believe he's 1103 for a minute. Remember, the second Doctor said he was 450ish, then the third repeatedly mentioned being Millenia old, but the Romana corrects 4 on his age, saying he's, again, in his late 400's. I think the Doctor has never REALLY been sure about his age. Which leads me too..
Waz, yes, the Cartmell Masterplan. I am aware of the broad strokes of the VNA stories, and despite my preference to not consider the Audio Dramas & novels canon, I've always kind of felt it to be 'right', and I hope they keep dropping those hints through the life of the show.
Also, I haven't started reading the novels because...well...I'd be obsessed with reading every single one. lol
I do not believe he's 1103 for a minute. Remember, the second Doctor said he was 450ish, then the third repeatedly mentioned being Millenia old, but the Romana corrects 4 on his age, saying he's, again, in his late 400's. I think the Doctor has never REALLY been sure about his age. Which leads me too..
Waz, yes, the Cartmell Masterplan. I am aware of the broad strokes of the VNA stories, and despite my preference to not consider the Audio Dramas & novels canon, I've always kind of felt it to be 'right', and I hope they keep dropping those hints through the life of the show.
Also, I haven't started reading the novels because...well...I'd be obsessed with reading every single one. lol
greatwazoo42
Master Member
My wife just finished her first read thru of Lungbarrow (she's a closet geek, don't tell her I told) and I'm going to start my 3rd or 4th read of it after I finish The Banquo Legacy (the last EDA I've not yet read at least once) but I don't recall the description of the Loomed Time Lords being fully adult or not. Once I reread it I'll be better able to answer.
As for the Doctor's Age...my favorite answer is that he isn't so much lying as he's just changing how he measures it depending on his mood. Sometimes he seems to only be talking about how long since he and Susan stole the Tardis (or she stole him) and abandoned Gallifrey and other times he seems to be talking as if he's using a different callender depending on the origin of who he's conversing with. If a planet takes 500 days instead of 365.25 to take its yearly trip around it's solar body or bodies you'd be measuring your age differently. He may not so much be lying but just tailoring his discertation to his audience.
As for the Doctor's Age...my favorite answer is that he isn't so much lying as he's just changing how he measures it depending on his mood. Sometimes he seems to only be talking about how long since he and Susan stole the Tardis (or she stole him) and abandoned Gallifrey and other times he seems to be talking as if he's using a different callender depending on the origin of who he's conversing with. If a planet takes 500 days instead of 365.25 to take its yearly trip around it's solar body or bodies you'd be measuring your age differently. He may not so much be lying but just tailoring his discertation to his audience.
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