New Doctor Who Series Discussion *Spoilers*
- Thread starter silverskyes402
- Start date
Solo4114
Master Member
The polarity of the neutron flow disagrees with you.
Just kidding.
:lol
I disagree. Although it's never really been the best science fiction in regard to explaining things the universe is presented in a way that everything has a scientific explanation (or at least is supposed to). There isn't any magic. There is certainly unexplained but the assumption is that everything in this universe has a basis in either real or imagined science. Therefore, Science-Fiction.
Goodwolf
Sr Member
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. -Arthur C. Clarke
TheDoctor
Sr Member
I think the only way that explanation works is if you assume that "magic" itself has a scientific explanation. There are plenty of examples where the "science" is not only wrong, there's often no explanation for how it works because we're just supposed to believe it does.
Example 1: The Sonic - What does it do? How does it work? How do Sound Waves re-attach barbed wire? Or manipulate a computer? Etc. This is part of the complaint in this thread - there's no boundaries for the Sonic, it's just a Magic Wand. In fact, The Doctor didn't even make it himself, it's something that comes from the TARDIS! We might as well say it has a Magic Feather core.
Example 2: "Timey-Whimey" - So, instead of The Doctor trying to explain how it works, he pulls out this phrase (or something like it). In a Fantasy work, when someone asks how things work they say "it just does" or "it's complicated" and move on. In a Science Fiction you take time to explain something (even if it's made up).
Example 3: "Remember Me" - So Amy brings back The Doctor (after he uses the Tardis to restart The Big Bang) just by remembering him. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely LOVED the scene - very powerful and emotionally driven.... but not Science Fiction.
I could go on, and on, and on. The writers and producers themselves have made it pretty clear that this is Storybook Fantasy. Even as far back as the "Rose" era (I can't speak to the older Who because I haven't watched much of it) it was a work of Fantasy instead of Science Fiction. Rose absorbs the Time Stream and wishes the Daleks away - Science or Fantasy? The Angels turn to stone the moment somebody looks at them... there's no way Biology works that way.
You see, in order to be a "Science Fiction" you have to maintain some sort of "plausibility" - the vast majority of stuff in Doctor Who is VERY implausible. In my mind, Doctor Who doesn't even make it into the Pulp (of SciFi) tradition of Science Fiction. There's rarely an explanation of how things work and when there is, there's very little attempt to keep it in the realm of plausibility.
In Doctor Who, we might as well be saying "A Wizard did it" - and that Wizard is The Doctor.
Whew, here we go! :love
As I said, it's BAD science fiction but it IS science fiction. To be fair the nuWho is worse than the old Who and there's a few GLARING examples of writers not knowing WTF they're writing about but it IS science fiction.
Problem of the new series I'm afraid but it's very clearly a multi-tool. In the classic series it was just that, new series blurs the lines for ease of story. I'd go so far to say that the sonic started out as a "screwdriver" and was at some point upgraded into it's multi-tool role while keeping the name. I never use my Leatherman multi-tool for leather but I still call it a Leatherman.
As I said though, BAD science fiction but still science fiction.
If you'll recall the Doctor starts explaining it and runs out of time so says it's "Timey-Wimey" to make is simpler for the person he's talking to (who's about to be attacked by Weeping Angels). I give this one a pass. Science fiction does that all the time where someone will start talking about something and then get cut off or simplify it so that the story can move on. Otherwise that scene would have been 10 hours.
HATED that scene but they did give an (admittedly weak) explanation of the Doctor basically "saving" himself on her brain which acted as a hard drive to retain him in the universe. The feeling of something missing booted up that part of her hard drive and created a paradox in which the Doctor HAD to exist in order for her to know him. Ipso-facto, the Doctor returns. Bad sci-fi? Yep, but definitely sci-fi.
Watch Classic Who, it'll change your mind. Uniting with the Time Stream gives you control over time (which eventually kills you) but she was able to completely eliminate those Daleks from existing. Biology works differently on different planets. As far as we know there is no way that a silicon based life form could exist yet science fiction uses it all the time. Again, NuWho is VERY bad sci-fi (classic was a lot better) but it IS sci-fi.
The majority DOES maintain plausibility. I think you're focusing on a few stand out points over a VAST series. And if that wasn't enough, the very first line of explanation of the series I could find:
As I said, it's BAD science fiction but it IS science fiction. To be fair the nuWho is worse than the old Who and there's a few GLARING examples of writers not knowing WTF they're writing about but it IS science fiction.
Problem of the new series I'm afraid but it's very clearly a multi-tool. In the classic series it was just that, new series blurs the lines for ease of story. I'd go so far to say that the sonic started out as a "screwdriver" and was at some point upgraded into it's multi-tool role while keeping the name. I never use my Leatherman multi-tool for leather but I still call it a Leatherman.
As I said though, BAD science fiction but still science fiction.
If you'll recall the Doctor starts explaining it and runs out of time so says it's "Timey-Wimey" to make is simpler for the person he's talking to (who's about to be attacked by Weeping Angels). I give this one a pass. Science fiction does that all the time where someone will start talking about something and then get cut off or simplify it so that the story can move on. Otherwise that scene would have been 10 hours.
HATED that scene but they did give an (admittedly weak) explanation of the Doctor basically "saving" himself on her brain which acted as a hard drive to retain him in the universe. The feeling of something missing booted up that part of her hard drive and created a paradox in which the Doctor HAD to exist in order for her to know him. Ipso-facto, the Doctor returns. Bad sci-fi? Yep, but definitely sci-fi.
Watch Classic Who, it'll change your mind. Uniting with the Time Stream gives you control over time (which eventually kills you) but she was able to completely eliminate those Daleks from existing. Biology works differently on different planets. As far as we know there is no way that a silicon based life form could exist yet science fiction uses it all the time. Again, NuWho is VERY bad sci-fi (classic was a lot better) but it IS sci-fi.
The majority DOES maintain plausibility. I think you're focusing on a few stand out points over a VAST series. And if that wasn't enough, the very first line of explanation of the series I could find:
timelordjedi777
Sr Member
As far as the sonic is concerned I found this. "Ultrasonic welding is an industrial technique whereby high-frequency ultrasonic acoustic vibrations are locally applied to workpieces being held together under pressure to create a solid-state weld. It is commonly used for plastics, and especially for joining dissimilar materials. In ultrasonic welding, there are no connective bolts, nails, soldering materials, or adhesives necessary to bind the materials together." Ultrasonic welding - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia So at least a small part of what the screwdriver can do is not so far fetched.
greatwazoo42
Master Member
I had approached the guys at Mythbusters to do a show on the sonic years ago and got a personal response from THE Hyneman himself expressing interest. He did warn me that the idea would have to survive a swim in the shark pool with the lawyers first to see if they could do it. That was late 2004 and we all know the show was announced for a return early in 2005 so it probably got nixed. Shame, I'd have loved to see them build some sort of sonic device out of a 18 wheeler trailer and blow up a small building with it...or something.
FlyingSaucer62
Member
I only hope that the new Doctor would be a woman as some of the rumors are and there is one other thing that I would love to see is Jenny back. In the episode of the 10th Doctor called The Doctor's Daughter, they used her in only 1 episode and totally forgot her again. Jenny was a great character and had the potential for a spin off and or to be used in episodes afterwards grrrrrrrr:facepalm
Two responses to this:
1. Jenny was great, would love to see her back and surprised they haven't.
2. NO NO NO. The Doctor as a woman would totally put me off the show. Done.
Organic Mechanic
Sr Member
The arguments here against the current list of SS function make me chuckle a bit.
Troughton used the thing to open doors and panels, he used it as a screwdriver, and he used it to cut through a metal frigging wall.
In Pertwee's era the scan function was introduced.
In the new series it is revealed that at some point the Doctor integrated it with the TARDIS making it a conduit for his psychic link with the TARDIS.
Those three points cover EVERY use we've seen of the SS in the last 50ish years. So where's the issue, other than maybe "It gets used too much.". Well, we've all seen what happens when they STOP using it. It ain't pretty. lol
***EDIT*** Yes, that includes the mending of barbed wire. If you can burn through metal with something, you can bond metal with it too. Assuming infinite settings that is.
Troughton used the thing to open doors and panels, he used it as a screwdriver, and he used it to cut through a metal frigging wall.
In Pertwee's era the scan function was introduced.
In the new series it is revealed that at some point the Doctor integrated it with the TARDIS making it a conduit for his psychic link with the TARDIS.
Those three points cover EVERY use we've seen of the SS in the last 50ish years. So where's the issue, other than maybe "It gets used too much.". Well, we've all seen what happens when they STOP using it. It ain't pretty. lol
***EDIT*** Yes, that includes the mending of barbed wire. If you can burn through metal with something, you can bond metal with it too. Assuming infinite settings that is.
timelordjedi777
Sr Member
I agree that the Doctor as a woman would be the worst thing ever done to Doctor Who.
I would like to see Jenny come back.
greatwazoo42
Master Member
Actually I'd love to see Sally Sparrow be a full fledged companion. She was fantastic in "Blink" and VERY pleasant on the eyes and ears.
Showtunes
Member
Love that. Love Oscar Wilde.
Personally I think it's Science-Fiction. It's not a quintessential Science-Fiction piece but it does have a lot more in common with Science-Fiction than it does Fantasy. Maybe that's just what I'd like to see it as though.
Sparticle
Well-Known Member
By Illuvatar, you have just become my Sci-fi hero!
I recall, in most every DW incarnation, of the SonScrew being waved around, and NOTHING happens. It's like the Doc expects it to help-out, but it doesn't give him quite what he expected. He's come to rely on it so much, but it can't do everything!
Last edited:
Serenity
Master Member
New Doctor Who Christmas trailer:
Doctor Who: Christmas Special Trailer - Children in Need 2012 - BBC One - YouTube
Christmas Episode Prequel:
Doctor Who: The Great Detective (Christmas Special Prequel) - Children in Need 2012 - BBC One - YouTube
Doctor Who: Christmas Special Trailer - Children in Need 2012 - BBC One - YouTube
Christmas Episode Prequel:
Doctor Who: The Great Detective (Christmas Special Prequel) - Children in Need 2012 - BBC One - YouTube
Similar threads
