My First Sintra Kit - Kingsguard Armor

[FuzzyDrawings]

I'm planning to begin construction of the chest armor this evening (well, I'll probably start with the back in case things go terribly!). For anyone who has worked with sintra, is it possible to glue layers of sintra together BEFORE heating and molding? Obviously this would limit the amount you can curve/bend the sintra, but is there a type of glue that won't be impacted by a heat gun? I'm looking at all the pieces that will need to be added to this chest armor and thinking that it'll be a nightmare trying to mold each piece onto the main layer individually...

 

[DR4296]

Thanks everyone! There's an incredible amount of talent here, so it means a lot that you all like my work!



Thanks! Actually, it's quite cheap on amazon! I got 6 large sheets (nearly 3'x5') of varying thickness for under $50. I'm not sure if there's any real difference between it and the more expensive versions, but I've stress tested this cheaper kind (molded, vaccum formed, sanded, carved, glued, and painted) and it seems to do exactly what the pricier kind does. Check here: Amazon.com: sintra pvc

Is Sintra stiff ? I need to make a barrel-shaped robot chest / torso. I was going to try to hunt down some plastic provider locally... and was thinking about trying PVC sheeting... which, I guess Sintra must be PVC ?? But once I've gotten it into a barrel shape (and I suppose I'll use some sort of interior rings to try to reinforce that shape, I don't want the fact that somebody simply bumps into it in a crowd to put a dent in it. My understanding is one would apply heat to shape it, but do larger sheets, overall, bend and flex somewhat?

Somehow, I think the plastic garbage cans from Lowe's or Home Depot would provide too flexible a plastic. There's a guy out on the highway who sells large plastic barrels. Was thinking about stopping by there and checking out that material. But other than that and PVC sheeting... I'm not sure what material I should investigate. And the fact that your Sintra is available on Amazon is a huge plus for me. I'm stuck at a computer a lot, so online shopping is a huge boon for my costume-building.


Thanks!

-= Dave =-

 

[FuzzyDrawings]

Sintra is just a specific brand name for a type of PVC (think Xerox: there are plenty of companies that make photo copiers, but everyone just says “xerox” because that’s the most popular brand). You’ll typically see it called “PVC Foam Board”, but it is NOT foam – it’s a type of plastic. Specifically, it is a thermoplastic, so heating it (above 150° F) is where the magic happens.

Prior to heating, sintra is only somewhat flexible; it has a low threshold and will break if you bend it too much. When heated, the sintra softens and you can mold it. It won’t do extreme/complicated curves and you have to do a little extra work to get it to do sharp angles, but with some ingenuity, sintra can be used for almost anything.

After cooling, sintra is very rigid. Naturally as with most things, its strength will depend on the thickness of the sheet being used, but
bumping into or hitting a sheet of heatformed sintra is NOT going to cause it to loose its shape. That being said, it will NEVER hurt to give your molded sintra some added structural support, whether you are simply applying additional layers/strips of sintra, or some other material. For the greaves, I used a combination of adding strips of sintra and thin layers of bondo to the back of the greaves to make sure they can withstand any impact. Wasn’t needed (prior to the extra support, I could stand on the greaves without them breaking), but like I said, it doesn’t hurt to give it some extra support. You just need to be mindful of where you think weak/problematic spots in your build will be, but be mindful not to go overboard – sometimes you do want a little bit of flex.

Here’s a pretty good link about using sintra:

Sintra sheets information

 

[DR4296]

Thanks very much! Sounds like perhaps I should go with something else. I just don't see how I could heat up a large sheet uniformly in order to bend it into a barrel.

 

[SMP Designs]

Great thread! I've used worbla for several projects, but haven't worked with sintra before. I'm especially interested in your painting and distressing techniques. I'm subscribed and will be following this one. Awesome work - looking forward to seeing it progress!

 

[GilliGen]

Damn this is a very good kit, keep up the work man

 

[ManitobaMando]

For anyone who has worked with sintra, is it possible to glue layers of sintra together BEFORE heating and molding? Obviously this would limit the amount you can curve/bend the sintra, but is there a type of glue that won't be impacted by a heat gun? I'm looking at all the pieces that will need to be added to this chest armor and thinking that it'll be a nightmare trying to mold each piece onto the main layer individually...

Yes you can glue layers before heat and mold. Depending on the thickness of your sintra layers and how many layers are on top of one another will be the x factor.

In my works, I use a combination of 1/8" sintra for detail work that I cut out, and marry up to a PRE TRACED pattern on the base layer. I use crazy glue to put the two together, and heat up for shaping. Another technique I use , depending on the complexity of the curve, is to shape the base first WITH the design traced on, then cut out the detail, heat that to form to the already molded part, then glue down.

Heat transfers well between two layers of 1/8 inch. Using 1/4 inch for the base and 1/8" for the detail also works very well, though I personally do not go with anything thicker. If I need to knock down the height of the detail work, I simply use a mouse sander with 80 grit, then smooth with 200. Alternatively, you could use wonderflex for detailing as well, or even worbla.

 

[FuzzyDrawings]

Damn this is a very good kit, keep up the work man

Awesome work - looking forward to seeing it progress!

Thanks guys! I'm looking forward to seeing progress too!

Yes you can glue layers before heat and mold. Depending on the thickness of your sintra layers and how many layers are on top of one another will be the x factor.

In my works, I use a combination of 1/8" sintra for detail work that I cut out, and marry up to a PRE TRACED pattern on the base layer. I use crazy glue to put the two together, and heat up for shaping.

Oh, that's fantastic to read! That's exactly what I was hoping to do for some of the larger sections of the cuirass. I'm not sure if I'll have the base be 1/8" or 1/4" yet, but all the layers that'll be going on top of the base will be 1/8" (with some sanding down for thinner pieces like you mentioned).

 

[teranmx]

Oh and don't make the same mistake I did on my back plates… on the bottom.. the three plates that are attached to by leather… they are not identical to the three in the front. Like your picture shows.. the middle plate on the back is smaller then the on like it in the front.. allows for the other two pieces to attach closer to it.. so when you attach chest plate and back plate together.. you don't have your loose plates….over lapping. Something I have to fix in my design. Keep up the good work Fuzzy. =)

 

[ManitobaMando]

Oh, that's fantastic to read! That's exactly what I was hoping to do for some of the larger sections of the cuirass. I'm not sure if I'll have the base be 1/8" or 1/4" yet, but all the layers that'll be going on top of the base will be 1/8" (with some sanding down for thinner pieces like you mentioned).

You'll be golden then. Subscribed.

 

[FuzzyDrawings]

Alrighty, I've been gone for a while - things have been fairly busy dealing with work, my band, and life in general. I've only gotten to do a little work here and there (mostly tweaking the designs in minor ways to make things more accurate), but I recently heard that Awesome-Con will be near me and I have no reason not to go, so that was the kick in the pants to get me to make more time for this. I've got just less than a month to get this ready for Awesome-Con. Here's hoping I can attend my first convention with my first fully handmade suit!!! D

What I've been able to do is make a test cuirass with some poster board. Both the test and final templates are projected onto a wall so I can easily and accurately trace them onto the paper/sintra.

I used duct tape to attach the front and back where all the claps would go and was pleased that it APPEARED to fit fairly well (more on that later), though I had to go back and modify the size/angle of some of the detail work to better fit the golden ratio for my size (I'm 5'7'' and fairly broad shouldered - I'd make a great LOTR dwarf, lol).

So I went back to the drawing board for that and made a new poster board test. Being pleased with that, I started drawing the template on my sintra boards. Here's the back:

And the front: The designs on the lower half are on another layer of sintra, so the seemingly random lines are just markers for placement.

After doing the above, I discovered MY FIRST MAJOR PROBLEM!!!

It seems I made the top section of the cuirass too wide - I cannot cross my arms in front of me. I didn't notice it with the poster board because it's flimsy and my arms just moved the paper out of the way (during testing I was more concerned about the details which is why I missed it I guess). Due to the complex design on top, I can't simply shave off an inch or two, so I have to rework the top portion, resize the design, run another test, etc, etc. The frustrating part is that I only realized this AFTER I traced that complex design onto the sintra...what a pain. :facepalm

Trying to find the silver lining...Everything else fits fine and it's better that I made it too BIG and not too SMALL - I'm not wasting sintra board this way, and when I've corrected it, I can just flip the marked up sintra over and trace on the reverse side. It's more of a headache than anything, but since it was so easily avoidable, I'm kicking myself. I already started trying to fix the sizing issue by using the last test piece (you'll see that I've been trimming away at it in the image). We'll see how it goes. My plan is to have that fixed and re-drawn on the sintra by Friday, and start carving the details in (something I am not looking forward to by the way - if anyone has any tips using a dremel and/or wood carving tools - or other techniques, I'd be forever in your favor!).

Oh and don't make the same mistake I did on my back plates… on the bottom.. the three plates that are attached to by leather… they are not identical to the three in the front. Like your picture shows.. the middle plate on the back is smaller then the on like it in the front.. allows for the other two pieces to attach closer to it.. so when you attach chest plate and back plate together.. you don't have your loose plates….over lapping. Something I have to fix in my design. Keep up the good work Fuzzy. =)

Dude...I'm really glad you pointed that out; I didn't even notice that. Thanks for saving me from that headache!!! :thumbsup

 

[FuzzyDrawings]

Great thread! I've used worbla for several projects, but haven't worked with sintra before. I'm especially interested in your painting and distressing techniques. I'm subscribed and will be following this one. Awesome work - looking forward to seeing it progress!

Thanks! I'll go into more detail of the painting method when I figure out exactly what I'll be doing, but for a brief overview, I'm using a combination of gold-leaf foil as a base and alternating very light misting layers of different spray paints ( hammered steel copper and bronze, and two types of golds). Playing around with thickness and order of colors, as well as when a new layer is applied gives some crazy results (ie: misting hammered copper on top of wet hammered bronze creates some really interesting pitting and color dynamics). In areas where I want more of the gold-leaf to show through, I either avoided painting over it altogether, or took a light sanding block and gently removed the spray paint. Again, this is all the experimental phase - I also intend on playing around with some different washes and rub 'n buff glazes - so the final method will probably be different, but its a start.

 

[Alpha Proto]

I love your approach to building this armor. Using templates on poster board is a smart move.

 

[purplybunny]

Loving this build I look forward to seeing the finished piece.

 

[Rysjin7717]

a incredible project FD I'm lovin' it!! I look forward to see your progress bro keep up the fantastic job.
opcorn

 

[FuzzyDrawings]

Thanks again everyone; I appreciate all the kind words!

I've figured out the sizing issue and traced my designs onto the sintra again, and now its time to engrave and mold! I'm curious though, does anyone have any experience with engraving designs into sintra BEFORE heat-molding? Since the board is currently flat, that would make it much easier to carve these designs in, but I'm concerned about how heating up the sintra and molding will affect the engraving...I might do some tests this evening before making a decision, but in any case, the cuirass WILL be done this weekend!!!

 

[teranmx]

Fuzzy. Experiment with it.. but with my experiences… if you carve it and then heat it… there is a chance of deformation of the engraving. Some times sintra and other pvc with shrink or distort because of the skin layer on it…and it would bad to spend all that time carving and then it come out distorted. Also when shape the plastic.. even when you bend it in areas you make that area slightly thinner. So if you've engraved which makes it thin and then heat..which could potentially make it thinner …you are increasing the chances of a hole or tear in the plastic. I've always found it easiest to shape it and then draw on the patterns and then engrave. But as I said experiment. Maybe you can find the perfect heat setting that allows you to do what you are attempting with problems. That's how I've learned all the crazy things to do with pvc plastic. Experiment, experiment, experiment. =) Good luck!

 

[FuzzyDrawings]

Fuzzy. Experiment with it.. but with my experiences… if you carve it and then heat it… there is a chance of deformation of the engraving. Some times sintra and other pvc with shrink or distort because of the skin layer on it…and it would bad to spend all that time carving and then it come out distorted. Also when shape the plastic.. even when you bend it in areas you make that area slightly thinner. So if you've engraved which makes it thin and then heat..which could potentially make it thinner …you are increasing the chances of a hole or tear in the plastic. I've always found it easiest to shape it and then draw on the patterns and then engrave. But as I said experiment. Maybe you can find the perfect heat setting that allows you to do what you are attempting with problems. That's how I've learned all the crazy things to do with pvc plastic. Experiment, experiment, experiment. =) Good luck!

Yeah I did a few tests last night. Thought it might be doable, but figured I'd sleep in it. I'm nearly finished molding the back piece and considering how much of a pain in the *pun censored* that's been, I'm gonna take your advice and mold the front piece before engraving.

I'll post a few pics of my progress here soon!

 

[FuzzyDrawings]

....AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAND time for a REAL update! I did a lot of work this past weekend. Here are some shots of things traced onto the sintra sheets:

I've also finished molding the front and back of the cuirass. Here's a WIP of the front:

As you can see, I've got a lot of bondo going on. I had to do some strategic cutting in order to get the curves I needed, so the bondo is being used to help fill in those cuts and provide some extra strength. This picture isn't the most recent - I've since sanded down the bondo so it's nice and smooth and cleaned up some edges. I also started carving the designs. I'm using an engraving tool to get clean edges and then going in to remove material with various dremel bits so the designs will have a cool debossed look. It's slow going but I'm getting the hang of it - should be done Thursday evening.

Last night I took a break from engraving and started on the bracers. Fairly simple, just some leather cut to size and scale armor placed on top. I've got the leather cut and figured out the size, shape and placement of the scales, but I need to wait for more material to come in later this week to finish them (I decided to use worbla for all scale work since it's thinner than sintra and easier to cut). edit - I ended up going with kydex - it's MUCH cheaper.

Along with the kydex, I've ordered basic medieval clothes (shirt, pants) and some fantastic leather gloves. The shirt and pants came in yesterday; the kydex and gloves should be here by Thursday. This weekend I'll be finishing the bracers and my friend will be starting the painting process (he's a professional and will do much better than I, but I'll be studying him and learning his secrets! ha). I'm also planning on having a group of friends over to help me cut out all of the scale pieces for the waist and arms...otherwise it will take me forever, lol.

Does anyone here have an idea of where I could by rivets (or other fastener) that gives the appearance of the "pins" around the neck and center of the cuirass? I'm not quite sure how to handle that part.

 

[FuzzyDrawings]

Just took some time to get the template for the scale maile skirt figured out. Here's the center pieces (front and back) and the side. The versions below are the "maps" for the leather backing - indicating were the holes for each of the scale pieces line up to weave them in. Below is my template for the braces as well.