Marvel's Eternals

[dascoyne]

I do wonder how much of the negative reaction to Eternals is just backlash because of misconceptions of perceived "agendas".
Reading some of the comments here does make me think that is the case for some people.

I am about as sensitive and critical as anybody can be to Hollywood's habit of formulaically shoehorning diversity of gender/race/sexuality everywhere just to pander to a perceived appetite for representation.

But that also doesn't mean I will necessarily hate on any film that chooses to conjure another palette of representative diversity. The critical question for me is whether or not the characters are compelling enough in their own right that their group identities don't end up being their defining characteristics. In part that comes across in the writing of the character, the performance and the way it is framed in the story.

I won't lie. I was prepared for a possible cringe-fest if The Eternals ended up wearing its intersectionality on its sleeve. But, thankfully, that did not turn out to be the case. First and foremost, I found these characters engaging to follow. Even if there was an element of "the agenda" in effect, there was also a lot more other things going on that it didn't have nearly the power to capsize the film for me.



(But, it did seem like they were milking the gay kiss just a bit by underscoring it with center-frame, as if the author wanted to make sure you knew they were making a bold statement. It seemed less about the affection between characters than it was about the statement - but only by a fraction.)

 

[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

(But, it did seem like they were milking the gay kiss just a bit by underscoring it with center-frame, as if the author wanted to make sure you knew they were making a bold statement. It seemed less about the affection between characters than it was about the statement - but only by a fraction.)

That one I will dispute. That was a standard "hero going off to war and taking leave from his family whom he may never see again" moment, down to the framing and pacing. We're just not used to the spouse being a husband instead of a wife. I recognize the "oh, I am not used to this" reflex, thank it for sharing, and then refocus on the movie.

 

[dascoyne]

That one I will dispute. That was a standard "hero going off to war and taking leave from his family whom he may never see again" moment, down to the framing and pacing. We're just not used to the spouse being a husband instead of a wife. I recognize the "oh, I am not used to this" reflex, thank it for sharing, and then refocus on the movie.

I can see how that would be the case.
It's likely my initial take was driven by the preceding "hype" from even well-intentioned media before I was able to watch it organically in the film. And that is no fault of the filmmaker.

 

[wayouteast]

(But, it did seem like they were milking the gay kiss just a bit by underscoring it with center-frame, as if the author wanted to make sure you knew they were making a bold statement. It seemed less about the affection between characters than it was about the statement - but only by a fraction.)

From the perspective of an older gay man, I humbly offer this informal 'test' for such moments in the hope it might be useful, and as a general observation, not directed at any specific person or people.

The question to be asked of themselves by anyone watching such a scene is 'would I have felt that a heterosexual kiss - treated in the same way, in the same context and given the same prominence - would have felt out of place or put there as a service to some 'agenda' or statement'. If the honest answer to that is 'no', then the gay kiss isn't either.

In both cases, the kiss (or whatever equivalent emotional interaction is depicted) is just an expression of love and affection between two people, and treating it in exactly the same way, regardless of the participants' gender is - by any measure - the equality all people of kindness and good will should aspire to, I think.

 

[Gimpdiggity]

I just did a quick glance at the thread...but I haven’t seen any mention that the voice at the end of the post credits scene is

Spoiler

Mahershala Ali.

 

[Riceball]

I just did a quick glance at the thread...but I haven’t seen any mention that the voice at the end of the post credits scene is

Spoiler

Mahershala Ali.

Interesting, I wonder what's his role.

Is it just me or does anybody else think that Kit Harrington's line towards the end of the movie about his parentage being complicated a nod to both his character in the movie and his role as Jon "You know nothing" Snow?

I also wanted to say that despite all of the naysayers here and the overall negative reviews this movie has received from a lot of critics, I thought that this movie was quite good. It was long but it didn't drag at any point in its 2+ hour run time. Given its plot, particularly by the end of the movie, I wonder if the big event for Phase 4(?) is being set up by the events of the Eternals. Although the event of previous MCU movies hasn't directly set up the overall plot for a Phase of the MCU, at least not in the first movie, what's being shown and hinted at In The Eternals seems to be too big to be confined to just The Eternals.

One last thing, if you haven't seen The Eternals yet and one of the things that have you concerned is the Bollywood sequence, don't be. It makes perfect sense in the context that it's set in. It's a fairly brief scene and is the only Bollywood sequence in the entire movie and is actually the only song and dance routine in the movie as well.

 

[Gimpdiggity]

Interesting, I wonder what's his role.

Spoiler

He was cast as Blade in 2019.

 

[dascoyne]

One last thing, if you haven't seen The Eternals yet and one of the things that have you concerned is the Bollywood sequence, don't be. It makes perfect sense in the context that it's set in. It's a fairly brief scene and is the only Bollywood sequence in the entire movie and is actually the only song and dance routine in the movie as well.

Did some folks have a problem with the Bollywood sequence? Why?

 

[renaissance_man]

Did some folks have a problem with the Bollywood sequence? Why?

Probably the same ridiculous anti "agenda" crowd.
The Bollywood dance scene was fun, in context and very unique for a western superhero film. I really enjoyed.

 

[cboath]

Interesting, I wonder what's his role.

Is it just me or does anybody else think that Kit Harrington's line towards the end of the movie about his parentage being complicated a nod to both his character in the movie and his role as Jon "You know nothing" Snow?

I also wanted to say that despite all of the naysayers here and the overall negative reviews this movie has received from a lot of critics, I thought that this movie was quite good. It was long but it didn't drag at any point in its 2+ hour run time. Given its plot, particularly by the end of the movie, I wonder if the big event for Phase 4(?) is being set up by the events of the Eternals. Although the event of previous MCU movies hasn't directly set up the overall plot for a Phase of the MCU, at least not in the first movie, what's being shown and hinted at In The Eternals seems to be too big to be confined to just The Eternals.

One last thing, if you haven't seen The Eternals yet and one of the things that have you concerned is the Bollywood sequence, don't be. It makes perfect sense in the context that it's set in. It's a fairly brief scene and is the only Bollywood sequence in the entire movie and is actually the only song and dance routine in the movie as well.

Another thing is, if you're tagline for advertising is 'this changes the MCU forever', you might want to do something in that fulfills that tagline as well.

Unless that is about the celestials being out there still. I'd swear in GotG 1 or 2 they made reference to their being none left or that Ego was the last or something like that.

 

[renaissance_man]

Another thing is, if you're tagline for advertising is 'this changes the MCU forever', you might want to do something in that fulfills that tagline as well.

Unless that is about the celestials being out there still. I'd swear in GotG 1 or 2 they made reference to their being none left or that Ego was the last or something like that.

Having a dormant Celestial half embeded in the Earth is a bit of a game changer wouldn't you agree?

 

[Usagi Pilgrim]

I think it's a 'Game Changer' in that a LOT of the future films are going to build off this one in ways that aren't apparent yet.

Another thing is, if you're tagline for advertising is 'this changes the MCU forever', you might want to do something in that fulfills that tagline as well.

Unless that is about the celestials being out there still. I'd swear in GotG 1 or 2 they made reference to their being none left or that Ego was the last or something like that.

 

[Riceball]

Spoiler

He was cast as Blade in 2019.

Yeah, I knew that, but I'm wondering if he's actually that character in this scene or as somebody else. But I guess how he has been recently cast as would make the most sense.

 

[dascoyne]

Probably the same ridiculous anti "agenda" crowd.
The Bollywood dance scene was fun, in context and very unique for a western superhero film. I really enjoyed.

As someone who considers himself a part of the "anti agenda" crowd I haven't read any complaints nor do I see any reason for complaint. The musical number seemed appropriate for the moment.

FYI. Someone who simply recognizes Hollywood's tendency towards overzealous representative diversity doesn't mean they are against having other cultures/races in movies to begin with. I'm not Indian, but I am an ethnic minority who enjoys foreign cinema which includes a lot of Bollywood movies. My only gripe about the number in The Eternals is that the choreo wasn't as strong, tight or grande as a lot of the Bollywood films I've watched.

I know it's a really tall order to expect top grade choreography for a brief sequence but, had they pulled it off (perhaps with the help of, say, Farah Khan or Remo D'Souza and maybe with a cameo from SRK himself), that would have been magnificent. It doesn't even have to occupy more screen time than it already does. Now that I think about it, this was a real missed opportunity. I sincerely think that could have been a great standout for The Eternals. It would been expensive, but Marvel/Disney also shelled out a lot of money for things like The Immigrant Song for Thor Ragnarok, all that Motown and other 60's and 70's songs for GotG as well as AC/DC and Black Sabbath for Iron Man.

 

[renaissance_man]

As someone who considers himself a part of the "anti agenda" crowd I haven't read any complaints nor do I see any reason for complaint. The musical number seemed appropriate for the moment.

FYI. Someone who simply recognizes Hollywood's tendency towards overzealous representative diversity doesn't mean they are against having other cultures/races in movies to begin with. I'm not Indian, but I am an ethnic minority who enjoys foreign cinema which includes a lot of Bollywood movies. My only gripe about the number in The Eternals is that the choreo wasn't as strong, tight or grande as a lot of the Bollywood films I've watched.

I know it's a really tall order to expect top grade choreography for a brief sequence but, had they pulled it off (perhaps with the help of, say, Farah Khan or Remo D'Souza and maybe with a cameo from SRK himself), that would have been magnificent. It doesn't even have to occupy more screen time than it already does. Now that I think about it, this was a real missed opportunity. I sincerely think that could have been a great standout for The Eternals. It would been expensive, but Marvel/Disney also shelled out a lot of money for things like The Immigrant Song for Thor Ragnarok, all that Motown and other 60's and 70's songs for GotG as well as AC/DC and Black Sabbath for Iron Man.

Was the scene totally integral to the story? Probably not. It was there to give context to Kingo's integration into humanity. Plus it was a slightly meta moment of a film within a film. So in that regard is it worth paying a huge amount for a one or two minute dance scene? Maybe. Is Kingo meant to be that kind of Tom Cruise/A List star that we all come to accept as having a certain level of expectation that they make popcorn entertainment rather than highly authentic arthouse cinema which favours spectacle over authenticity?
Remember the physics defying side swipe reaction of Ethan Hunt on the bridge in MI:3 when a bomb explodes behind him, which was a classic JJ Abrams trope of "it looks cool" rather than it makes logical sense.
The dance could have been choreographed by a top Bollywood producer but maybe the point was it was a Kingo film, it wasn't meant to be the best, for the above reasons.
Perhaps Kingo is the MCU's Tom Cruise!
Let's enjoy the fact we had something new in a superhero film.
Everyone seems to want to nitpick the life out of everything these days.
No disrespect to you dascoyne. Just this thread has sort of turned into a bashing of a film that tried to be different.
If Marvel had cut and paste the Eternals into an Avengers script, people would cry fowl there.
Marvel are damned if they do damned if they don't.

I understand people have different views and they are all valid, provided we don't get anymore bigots. It would be good to get some balance back to the discussion rather than the bashing minor aspects.

 

[signeddiamond]

Probably the same ridiculous anti "agenda" crowd.
The Bollywood dance scene was fun, in context and very unique for a western superhero film. I really enjoyed.

You know, when you bunch people together and make assumptions about their motives so you can dismiss ideas that don’t align with your own you don’t really come across as all that fun to discuss film with in an open and genuine way.

I consider myself generally against films being made with “agendas” (what I consider as anything added to the film not in service to the story but to entice articles to be written and people to argue as free publicity) but I actually thought the biggest criticism of the Bollywood scene was how short it was. How often do western audiences get shown a huge scale dance sequence these days? Why not have Kingo use a bit of his powers as “special effects” for the scene? Honestly… why didn’t he take his shirt off? The guy got ripped for the role and his efforts were covered with a bland planetarium print jumpsuit for the whole film. it would have been nice to have a bit more fun and let the scene play out longer.

 

[renaissance_man]

You know, when you bunch people together and make assumptions about their motives so you can dismiss ideas that don’t align with your own you don’t really come across as all that fun to discuss film with in an open and genuine way.

I consider myself generally against films being made with “agendas” (what I consider as anything added to the film not in service to the story but to entice articles to be written and people to argue as free publicity) but I actually thought the biggest criticism of the Bollywood scene was how short it was. How often do western audiences get shown a huge scale dance sequence these days? Why not have Kingo use a bit of his powers as “special effects” for the scene? Honestly… why didn’t he take his shirt off? The guy got ripped for the role and his efforts were covered with a bland planetarium print jumpsuit for the whole film. it would have been nice to have a bit more fun and let the scene play out longer.

The person asked who had a problem with the Bollywood dance scene. The way this thread has been going it seemed it was most likely going to be one of the anti agenda members who have thrown criticism at every aspect of the film.

Why does Kingo need to take his shirt off? Just because you've built muscle for a role does that mean you have to whip your top off?
If a woman has breast implants does she need to flash her bare chest just because she has bigger boobs?
Honestly the nitpicking here is getting beyond.

 

[ScourgiousJinx]

You know, when you bunch people together and make assumptions about their motives so you can dismiss ideas that don’t align with your own you don’t really come across as all that fun to discuss film with in an open and genuine way.

Very well said.

 

[dascoyne]

Was the scene totally integral to the story? Probably not. It was there to give context to Kingo's integration into humanity. Plus it was a slightly meta moment of a film within a film. So in that regard is it worth paying a huge amount for a one or two minute dance scene? Maybe. Is Kingo meant to be that kind of Tom Cruise/A List star that we all come to accept as having a certain level of expectation that they make popcorn entertainment rather than highly authentic arthouse cinema which favours spectacle over authenticity?
Remember the physics defying side swipe reaction of Ethan Hunt on the bridge in MI:3 when a bomb explodes behind him, which was a classic JJ Abrams trope of "it looks cool" rather than it makes logical sense.
The dance could have been choreographed by a top Bollywood producer but maybe the point was it was a Kingo film, it wasn't meant to be the best, for the above reasons.
Perhaps Kingo is the MCU's Tom Cruise!
Let's enjoy the fact we had something new in a superhero film.
Everyone seems to want to nitpick the life out of everything these days.
No disrespect to you dascoyne. Just this thread has sort of turned into a bashing of a film that tried to be different.
If Marvel had cut and paste the Eternals into an Avengers script, people would cry fowl there.
Marvel are damned if they do damned if they don't.

I understand people have different views and they are all valid, provided we don't get anymore bigots. It would be good to get some balance back to the discussion rather than the bashing minor aspects.

With all due respect I think you ought to actually read what I wrote.

I LIKED AND DEFENDED THE BOLLYWOOD SEQUENCE AND I WANTED MORE OF IT.

In fact the genesis of my statement was that I didn't understand why anybody should have a problem with the sequence.

I never complained that it wasn't integral to the story. I disagree with your proposition that it might have been intentionally underproduced. I also did not "bash" the film in any way. I never said the film was any weaker for it. All of that is coming from your assumptions and it is incorrect.

As someone who watches Bollywood films, I was only daydreaming about inserting a taste of authenticity that could impress a western audience. Just as western people are starting to appreciate Korean cinema today, I would love for them to discover Bollywood as well.

Ironically, I also offered that you not be so quick to jump to conclusions about the actual intentions of folks that you stereotype as being "anti agenda". Yet your response was to do exactly that.

BTW. Bollywood is not just about the spectacle or hyperbolically CGI-inflated action we see in memes, but also has some amazingly solid and beautifully acted films that rival anything coming out of Hollywood today. I highly recommend Dangal if you want a taste of a solid, modern Bollywood film.

 

[renaissance_man]

With all due respect I think you ought to actually read what I wrote.

I LIKED AND DEFENDED THE BOLLYWOOD SEQUENCE AND I WANTED MORE OF IT.

Ironically, I also offered that you not be so quick to jump to conclusions about the actual intentions of folks you stereotype as being "anti agenda". Yet your response was to do exactly that.

BTW. Bollywood is wonderful. It is not just about the spectacle or hyperbolically CGI-inflated action we see in memes, but also has some amazingly solid and beautifully acted films that rival anything coming out of Hollywood today. I highly recommend Dangal if you want a taste of a real and solid Bollywood film.

Fair enough. I think I'm just so used to hearing the bigots and poorly considered opinions of people who think it is cool to jump on the bashing bandwagon, I maybe got a bit sidetracked.
I'll give Dangal a watch if I can find it on Amazon or Netflix. Thanks for the tip.