Life Size 1:1 REAL METAL Machined General Greivous

[xmart]

Well it's NOT up to ME
It's up to you.

As Clay told us, both techniques has pros and cons..
Rough resin pull would be a cheaper. But NOT a LOT cheaper.

Yeah an unworked resin pull would be even MORE cheaper..BUT:

To create resin casts, we need to make a mold (and we are talking about lots of them here..(extra cost) and the pulls will need some DEFINITE work on them..lots of bondo..filling, sanding (time)..and Metal coating as done by Applied Metal technique. (extra cost) etc.

Luckily Greivous has some resin colored "bone" parts in the movie, so with some good weathering we will be able to get them right. (Skull, and armor parts)

Metal would be expensive, but NOT that expensive.. Once you shell out some good amount of money on a project like this..I don't think that some extra would be that much to make it whole metal. + Since we want to make it accurate and articulated..metal would not only look cooler but more stronger than resin..so no possible damage if you drop an arm of it on floor..since it will have some real thin parts (especially on the arms) But I can't say the same for resin..it can break more easily..And metal will last a LOT longer compared to resin..and that "cold" feeling and shine of the metal is always a huge plus.

Once we have a breakdown of the costs..we will be able to say what it will cost to produce it in metal and in resin..If it makes no sense to make it resin..I would definetaly go with metal.

Also for the complexity of parts that can be created with CNC, please visit Clay's website (www.appliedmetal) and look under the videos for the complexity of the parts that can be created 3-d with the machine

 

[Benkenove]

Ok...

That is nice... It would be great to know both prices and cost... (price of whole metal but the flesh parts, and price of the resin version)... that way we (or at least I) could compare prices, and decide which way to go ...

I would love to get it on metal, if I can afford it off course ...

Keep us update ...

 

[terryr]

Will it have a real Human heart, lungs, and eyeballs?

 

[xmart]

Originally posted by terryr@Dec 11 2005, 03:20 PM
Will it have a real Human heart, lungs, and eyeballs?

[snapback]1133508[/snapback]​

Well those are the easy parts..and details.
I first want to focus on the articulation, body engineering and ofcourse the head.

Also as some of you guys want, what do you expect from the head bust? Do you only mean the "skull" or combination with vessel like machine "neck" parts.

For the skull, it won't include the eyes..We will only machine the skull head shell..Those eyes will be sculpted later on and is totally another level of detailing, painting, adding glass eyes etc. We will see

 

[hollywoodhardware]

Even if the costs come down to 10 grand for an articulated metal statue (which I highly doubt), you won't find 10 people here paying that much.

So if you are taking it seriously (which I also doubt as you keep spelling your favourite character wrong - it's GRIEVOUS), I suggest you start with a bust, so you can keep down the costs and get familiar with the processes (sculpting, CAD, molding and applied metal etc).

My 2 cents

Thomas

 

[Skalen Fehl]

Curious. How much do you guys anticipate this weighing? I'm wondering if some or most parts can be molded with that same rubber material that I've seen Sandtrooper rifles made from for durability reasons. You can drop the rifle and it won't break. And it looks every bit as good as resin or metal. I'm by far no expert in prop building, which is why I'm curious.

 

[hypospray]

Having some experience in CNC projects, I can assure you resin would be WAY cheaper. Silicone for molds and dozens of buckets of resin, though expensive in their own right, do not compare to the prices of CNC design drawing and machining costs. Especially on a limited run project like this. CNC really needs to have 100+ part runs to become cost effective, and even then it will be significantly more than resin. I would put Thomas' quote of $10,000 at conservative unless you make 50 or 100 of these things (which I don't think LFL would like very much).

Let's look at this realistically. I personally don't like grievous, but I'll give my input on what I think it would take to make this happen. Making the head or a bust first is a very good idea. A commisioned sculpt would probably be your best bet for this, as long as whoever does it is cool with you casting his work (even if it's not for profit many artists would rather you not). Even this head will probably turn out to be a pretty penny, what with glass eyes, some kind of tissue looking stuff inside, and if you wanted to make it true to the movie, you probably couldn't even sculpt it anyway, since the "real" head looks to be plates covering what's left of his tissue.

The other non-plate-like parts could be sculpted by a relatively non-skilled sculptor from wood, putty, etc, then sealed and molded. You will want to make the armature and any significant weight-bearing pieces from metal. The idea is to have the armature the only thing supporting weight so you can keep it as mostly resin as possible.

The plate parts will have to be fiberglass or sheet metal (I'm just working from memory here, if the plates have any kind of thickness or varying thickness to them they will need to be glass). If sheet metal, they will have to be individually hand crafted, which at several hours labor per piece times however much $ is charged ($50/hr would be my guess unless someone is willing to cut costs to help out) times however many pieces are on this prop... well, you get the idea.

I really don't mean to burst anyone's bubble but this is the real world and it takes money to turn it. All I'm saying is CNC machining (or manual machining for that matter) would be WAY too expensive. If you don't consider resin I'm afraid this project will never get off the ground. Besides, there are ways to plate resin with metal and have it feel like real metal. Though cost prohibitive, even that would be cheaper than solid metal.

Good luck.

 

[synasp]

As hypospray stated, CNC projects are very expensive... but it can be done. What I'm most concerned about here is the number of parts. We're talking intricate designs that require numerous components if you wanted to "assemble" this like a "real" Grevious. This takes an extreme amount of time to design and model, then you have to find a place to fabricate 10-20 per item that wont charge you your entire budget.

If you did it in resin, you could make the entire arm and cast that vs. 30 different machines parts that combine into just the arm. I don't know how complex Grevious is, but there has to be compromise on detail unless you have lot of money to spend.

A perfect Grevious can be made... for the right price.

 

[CTF]

Originally posted by terryr@Dec 12 2005, 03:20 AM
Will it have a real Human heart, lungs, and eyeballs?

[snapback]1133508[/snapback]​

GG wasn't human... :rolleyes

 

[Eaglewood]

Hypospray is correct in what he is saying. I have been trying in the easiest way to get this point across--It CAN be done, but most definitely cost prohibitive if we are going to CNC machine everything out of metal. Just the cost of the programming alone will be a lot, even though I am going to try and get some of it done myself.
If we could even get some of the original blueprints, that would help, but still there is a lot involved.
I think that we need to start off with the head, as I mentioned before. Lets see what that costs and then go from there. If we can find a head and scan it, that would be a great help--If not, there is a lot of time involved to get one created from scratch. As i mentioned, I will do whatever I can to assist. I am very interested in it and will proceed, but as I can.
Clay

 

[hypospray]

I have an idea. How about 3D CAD design of each piece individually, then rapid-prototype each piece, then mold from there (after cleanup of course... lesson learned from the halo pistols ). This would be faster (though not cheaper, but worth it IMHO) than hand sculpting each piece by hand, plus you'd have the assurance of each piece being all pretty and symmetrical.

I think step number one is getting some accurate reference material of grievous' parts.

 

[xmart]

3-D scanning is another option. What do you guys think?

 

[hypospray]

you have to have something to scan first.

 

[synasp]

Originally posted by hypospray@Dec 12 2005, 12:45 AM
you have to have something to scan first.

[snapback]1133998[/snapback]​

right. If you guys can get a 3D model of this, I can look into how much it would cost to produce it. A good portion of development cost is in modeling the item, so if that's done, we're half-way there.

(p.s. I'm not signing up for this project. Just lending a hand if I can. )

 

[Eaglewood]

Originally posted by xmart@Dec 12 2005, 01:56 AM
3-D scanning is another option. What do you guys think?

[snapback]1133980[/snapback]​

This is probably the best way to go with it. I had some discussions with some of my application engineers and th :thumbsup ey both said that this would be very labor intensive and time consuming to try and program and cut each part individually , whether it be to make the actual part or to create a mold.
They both agreed that if we can laserscan the part, then we can use a rapid prototype build up machine to reproduct as many as we want. I have access to all of this technology--I just need the parts to scan--The search begins....

Clay

 

[hypospray]

Again, one needs the parts first. You can't just scan a toy or something and blow it up and expect it to look good. Even if there were a lifesized statue somewhere chances are it would not be accurate like we'd want it.

Rapid prototyped parts are relatively fragile, plus they come out rough and unpolished looking. You would have much better luck CAD designing each part, rapid prototyping it, cleaning up the prototype, then molding. But that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

edit: Clay, I don't know what kind of rapid prototype machine you have; all the ones I've seen make parts come out rough looking. If you have a higher resolution machine that can produce smooth parts that may be the way to go.

 

[fettster]

Hi all,

this is indeed an adventure which i would like to be part of.

I am currently scratch building a republic commando helmet but i was toying with the idea of sculping grievous's head after. i would use foam to carve and sand the shape, then make a resin copy and add the detail to that so if you want a resin head, im up for sculpting it or you could laser scan it. Im up for it if someone can provide me with enough reference.

 

[synasp]

Originally posted by hypospray@Dec 12 2005, 09:52 PM
If you have a higher resolution machine that can produce smooth parts that may be the way to go.

[snapback]1134626[/snapback]​

There are (much) more expensive machines that "print" with such fine layers that it comes out smooth. Downside is getting something printed with these machines will also be (much) more expensive.

Any project can be done. It's just a matter of how much $ you want to throw at it.

 

[Chingon]

Originally posted by CTF+Dec 11 2005, 12:19 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(CTF @ Dec 11 2005, 12:19 PM)</div>

<!--QuoteBegin-terryr

@Dec 12 2005, 03:20 AM
Will it have a real Human heart, lungs, and eyeballs?

[snapback]1133508[/snapback]​

GG wasn't human... :rolleyes

[snapback]1133662[/snapback]​

[/b]

From Star Wars.com

A twisted melding of flesh and metal, General Grievous' body is a deadly weapon forged by the cutting edge developers of the Confederacy. Grievous' living matter was encased within his precision-engineered artificial body; inside the hardened carapace beat the heart of a remorseless killer. A pressurized gut-sack held his vital organs, while his skull-like mask contained his living eyes and brain. Making the horrific amalgam more unpleasant was a persistent wet, hacking cough coming from his ravaged lungs.

 

[CTF]

Umm, as I said, GG wasn't human... :confused