Lets Sort Pipe Stunt Sabers

[thd9791]

It turns out not all the questions have been answered.

I always thought there was the stunt with the red button (ANH) and then one(s) with black bolts that didn't have the switch/wire holes. I say plural because one has a long lever like the V2.

However, one stunt with a red button also has black bolts. (See first picture under ESB Filming)

There is a threaded hole on the Post-Pipe where the red button goes too. And what looks like glue from 7 grips

We think we see the switch/wire holes that BAlinger15 noted on the ANH Vader Motorized saber also on the ANH Motorized Luke stunt while filming the carbon chamber with NO red button (see the blue backed photo) and the other pipes don't seem to have it.

is this one pipe that went through upgrades to black bolts? Were there 2 and they both were upgraded like the ANH Motorized Vader was upgraded with black bolts? 3 Because of the long lever? Lets discuss outside of my MoM Vader thread. Click on the photos to make them bigger


Post Filming


Jedi


Empire Filming


Post ANH


ANH

 

[LOM]

Geez, I really need to sort my reference libraries. It's an absolute pain to dig some of these images up to add to the pile lol.


One of the things I've been doing recently is trying to put things in a chronological order, it helps see if there was some sort of modification throughout the production. So here's a more in-depth breakdown of what I said in the MoM thread

1) Warehouse saber - ANH stunt with push button, thin knurl red button, plugged wire hole. I'm pretty sure this is the Luke/Vader shared one, you can see the set screw hole pretty clearly in one of these images. Also noticed it matches the falcon scene in placement.

(Sometime between the first image and the rest, the lamp button was removed)

2) "Blue shirt Walkthrough" is what I'm going to call this - Red button, no bolts, normal grips. Slight shadow discrepancy on the 2nd image looks like it could be the set screw in the same spot on the warehouse/ANH saber, maybe. I'm not completely sold on the S-Curve either.

2.5) However, it does look like it has bolts on the first image here but not the second. So it's still up in the air. (Where are these 2 images from, some BTS footage, right?)

3) Dress rehearsal for filming the carbon-chamber duel - Long lever, no red button, foam grips, and what appears to be a wire hole
(I found a higher res version of this! Definitely looks like a hole.)

*These stunts don't appear to be used when the actually filmed the duel in full costume - none of the BTS pics with Hamill and Anderson in full attire in the carbon chamber scenes look to be pipe stunts. All of them look to be bolted Graflexes

I think #2 re-appears on the catwalk here... I don't see any bolts on this one still.

Also a post worth digging up:

The "pipe stunt" I don't believe was the motorized ANH Luke stunt - it's too simple and there's no mechanism to put a motor in. It may have been made specifically as a rehearsal saber. I don't think there are any pics of it outside of ROJ. It is one piece of tube, open at the bottom and the blade-end cut like a Graflex top. It has a clamp on it that is wrapped up in gaffer's tape - unknown what kind of clamp is under it. There are 4 allen bolts that hold an aluminum cylinder (solid) inside of it, and the blade mounts to that. Also on the top is a small threaded hole where a Graflex red button would be (no button present.)

So the pipe stunt might be contemporary to RotJ only? Or perhaps one of these ESB pipes was modified later on to match the bolted Graflexes when they realized that was a more secure method of attachment?

Since the pipe lacks any sort of hole for switches or wires (Not sure if we have 100% confirmation on that) and both of these 2 sabers I'm seeing have a wire hole, it can't be either. I'm now leaning to believe the pipe stunt was made for RotJ. After all they prepped resin Graflexes, they could've prepped a bladed stunt as well. Though #2.5 could be the pipe stunt as well, I'd have to view that footage. Is it Empire of Dreams? Or a different doc?

 

[SethS]

Looks like I have work to do...

 

[thd9791]

This is great.

2 things I noticed

Wanted to point out this black bolt first, on the left of the hilt.

Now, They also screwed up the placement of the front bolts on the "pipe", this shot from kurtyboy shows the left with the arrow is higher than the right. Check out the space available under cut emitter. I copied this on my hilt

And, this saber has the same pattern

Weird... also, the bolts on the back of the current pipe stunt are so low you wouldn't see them in this shot. They sit below the tape line which is below the "red button" area too

 

[thd9791]

Also, I'm of the opinion now, this is NOT a bolt - but a hole. way too big for a bolt. I think this was where the red button was on ... the ANH Motorized stunt.

The newer pipe stunt only has a threaded hole here, so maybe the current pipe got it's start in empire

 

[LOM]

Ok - I'm seeing the bolts now! What I thought was the grub screw could very well be a bolt. A grub screw probably wouldn't show up on a photo like this as well. So the blue shirt one could is probably the best candidate for the pipe stunt.

The long lever one - that could be a hole. Does anyone have any pics of the hut saber on the lever side?
This is the only photo I've got and Luke's finger is in the way...

Being in Tunisia, there's a chance the long lever Jawa clamp could've ended up on it?

 

[PoopaPapaPalps]

Thanks for your post of these stunts in the timeline, LOM; I have a hell of a time remembering what anybody is referring to when they're talking about the "pipe" stunts.

Brandon believes the pipe stunt being something contemporary to RotJ, but there aren't any hero Graflexes in that it would warrant making a stunt of, so it is more likely that they were reusing material from ESB's production mixed with what was left over from ANH. I'm fairly certain that pipe stunt with the allen bolts near the emitter stems from ESB's production. It's also a Graflex clamp that's taped up; the MPP clamp is not as long as that.

 

[thd9791]

What are the flipping chances it's got the same grip set-up, including the missing grip... and the red button fell out, leaving the big hole

 

[SethS]

That second pic shows the wide grips on a lot of the stunts.

 

[LOM]

I don't think it's the Vader/Luke saber, that one definitely has a normal Graflex lever, unless they were part swapping the stunts too.

I also thought they were foam grips at first SethS , but looking at this picture:

If this is indeed the same stunt as the long lever, it looks like normal t-track here. And it has the missing grip! (so it would've fallen off on set)


PoopaPapaPalps Lol yeah, the there's so many of these Graflex stunts to keep track of!
There also was a hero Graflex prepped for RotJ, so they could've prepped a some stunts was my thinking. But that's just a complete guess of course

 

[PoopaPapaPalps]

PoopaPapaPalps Lol yeah, the there's so many of these Graflex stunts to keep track of!
There also was a hero Graflex prepped for RotJ, so they could've prepped a some stunts was my thinking. But that's just a complete guess of course
View attachment 1372939View attachment 1372940

Maybe prepped was the wrong word, but they were certainly just reusing the old stuff on-hand. The Graflex is the one from ESB just missing the knurled buttons (or just the face one). Again, this is how the V2 was pressed into service. My point being was that by filming of the third film, they were using a lot of what was already made for the prior films and I believe the pipe stunt is more evidence of that.

 

[LOM]

Maybe prepped was the wrong word, but they were certainly just reusing the old stuff on-hand. The Graflex is the one from ESB just missing the knurled buttons (or just the face one). Again, this is how the V2 was pressed into service. My point being was that by filming of the third film, they were using a lot of what was already made for the prior films and I believe the pipe stunt is more evidence of that.

Ah, gotcha. That's a fair point, and definitely makes more sense than what I was suggesting to be honest

 

[chazzychaz]

OT, but why are some of the blades wrapped in gaff tape?

 

[thd9791]

The emitter tape was an attempt to make it look like an MPP from far away haha

I think they removed the red button to get the first clamp off for some reason, and put the long lever one on for the chamber duel

 

[thd9791]

One WAS used on screen, I've seen it when Luke falls

 

[thd9791]

I thought of this thread when cleaning up my desktop (archiving things into folders on an external drive)

If grips can come off, then the clamp can come off. I am seriously of the mindset now that the ANH Stunt never had black bolts put in, at least in the way the pipe stunt has

so if you see a glass eye, or a giant hole where the red button would go... there's your ANH stunt. The pipe stunt never had a glass eye and has a tiny hole on the back, probably for a red button with a screw glued to it

ANH Stunt

Pipe Stunt

 

[Mouse Vader]

A couple of observations/opinions.

I don't think this is the red button. If you look at the 'emitter' area there is uneven amounts of blade showing indicating that we are seeing some the 'scalop' here & that this black bit is off the dorsal center line by 20-30deg.

This something I noticed some time ago & leads me to believe this is the 'other' ANH motorised graffy. Wherever you can find shots of the silver nose one the clamp 'Graflex' name stamp faces the other way to this one. In just about every shot I can remember seeing of any graflex clamp stamp - it's reads the other way to this one. To get a clamp to reverse/invert the name you have to take it apart & swap the clamp bars over. To do this on a completed motorised stunt you not only have to swap the bars over but slide the clamp off & turn it round. This cant be done rearwards as the grips are in the way. When I assemble mine sliding the clamp on (from the rear before fixing the grips) it scratched the finish lengthwise, so sliding off forwards would scratch the front of the tube finish. It's feasible this isn't good enough resolution to show up in this photo. Lastly there is nothing that warrants removing the clamp or grips to disassemble the internals of this saber. I'd say the balance of probability is this is one of 2 motorised stunts.

Lastly - missing grip. I don't know about you guys but on my motorised stunt, when swinging it about, that particular grip is under a lot of lateral force & was the 1st to come off when using it. My point being this isn't strong evidence for same saber as grips in that area on any saber are more likely to detach.

 

[Halliwax]

I live for this stuff..

I don’t want to argue with my friend mouse, so what I’m about to say I don’t want to come off cocky but

Considering how many blades broke. And how many times these things broken in general, the clamp has to come off to remove the motor and re attached the blade

They could have just replaced the clamp upside down by accident

I am not wanting to start a argument, but that’s what I always thought

Could there be another? Very possible.. but I just figured they didn’t put it back right after maintenance

 

[thd9791]

I have another issue.

These are mostly from the OT Round blade thread, and other associated research threads. Nothing I have here is private, but if something is amiss please let me know

ARE these different? Are they the same? There are some features I overlooked that are making me question timelines. The cuts do not all look the same to me

Scottjua photos #3 and 5 respectively


The ones on the bottom row have black bolts

Vader uses a Gx Stunt many times in ESB. Meaning it has a black top. Also it has the 1/4" jack hole in the endcap, so an ANH era stunt.

So does Colin S in Jedi


so the pipe stunt had an ANH endcap too?

 

[Halliwax]

Pretty sure I see a end cap during the Esb scenes, I could be wrong though not really good reference