Millenniumf
Sr Member
I'm at yellow alert status, myself. Man, I wish this were real, but it feels really sus.
Large Scale USS Excelsior Class Ships - Whats out there?
- Thread starter JBReplicas
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bwize
Sr Member
So here are two updates from today.
From the EAD website:
UPDATE 04/05/2022:
Upper Saucer, Nacelle Bottoms, Nacelle Fore & Aft Caps, Nacelle 1701-B Fore and Aft Caps, Bridge Unit 1, Bridge Unit 2, Stabilzers, Micro parts, All successfully Molded and currently curing.
UPDATE 04/06/2022:
Demoulding Aftermentioned parts, and Beauty coat application for Final Photos.
Prep on remaining parts to be molded begins: Lower Saucer, Pylons, Secondary Hulls (2), etc
Via Facebook:
"Oh yeah, for a Excelsior kit customers I actually am in fact going back to the original plan of including some stencils and some brass chemical etched parts details as I've actually perfected the general skill of manufacturing those so there will be a few areas where details are supplemented by those in all the premium kits."
From the EAD website:
UPDATE 04/05/2022:
Upper Saucer, Nacelle Bottoms, Nacelle Fore & Aft Caps, Nacelle 1701-B Fore and Aft Caps, Bridge Unit 1, Bridge Unit 2, Stabilzers, Micro parts, All successfully Molded and currently curing.
UPDATE 04/06/2022:
Demoulding Aftermentioned parts, and Beauty coat application for Final Photos.
Prep on remaining parts to be molded begins: Lower Saucer, Pylons, Secondary Hulls (2), etc
Via Facebook:
"Oh yeah, for a Excelsior kit customers I actually am in fact going back to the original plan of including some stencils and some brass chemical etched parts details as I've actually perfected the general skill of manufacturing those so there will be a few areas where details are supplemented by those in all the premium kits."
AtomicToybox
New Member
Starbase101
Sr Member
I'm staying on the positive side, and excited the kit will now include photoetched parts.
Jediscum
Well-Known Member
Starbase101
Sr Member
I call dibs on being the one in the gold shirt.
modelerdave
Sr Member
Still waiting for pics of any kind.
I so want this to work out, but we need an honest reality check.
There's a possibility that this is an entrepreneurial individual without a business plan who I'll assume overestimated the work and painted himself in a corner. And the pattern demonstrated in this thread suggests that, by now, he's probably thinking about his exit plan more than delivering the goods, for the simple reason that he doesn't have the ability to get himself out of it.
Reading the Cancellation/Refund Policy on EAD's Terms & Conditions page (the wording is another sign that this is not a serious business) prompted me to spend 30 minutes going through socials related to EAD. Within a few short minutes (and some googling) there was enough to raise red flags and consider walking away from any dealings with EAD. Feel free to look into it for yourself if you haven't done so already.
I always hope I'm wrong about stuff like this but nothing here or outside this forum points to a positive outcome in regards to the Excelsior.
I'm one of those who learned the hard way, thanks to Indiegogo's MR HAL 9000 project.
There's a possibility that this is an entrepreneurial individual without a business plan who I'll assume overestimated the work and painted himself in a corner. And the pattern demonstrated in this thread suggests that, by now, he's probably thinking about his exit plan more than delivering the goods, for the simple reason that he doesn't have the ability to get himself out of it.
Reading the Cancellation/Refund Policy on EAD's Terms & Conditions page (the wording is another sign that this is not a serious business) prompted me to spend 30 minutes going through socials related to EAD. Within a few short minutes (and some googling) there was enough to raise red flags and consider walking away from any dealings with EAD. Feel free to look into it for yourself if you haven't done so already.
I always hope I'm wrong about stuff like this but nothing here or outside this forum points to a positive outcome in regards to the Excelsior.
I'm one of those who learned the hard way, thanks to Indiegogo's MR HAL 9000 project.
JMChladek
Sr Member
Been away for awhile, but it is interesting to see something I am somewhat familiar with pop up in my favorite forum, partly because PHA and T2Sides have chimed in. What I am about to discuss took place on FB, and yes I know that should be a separate issue from a RPF Thread. But, given a few people have invested money in this, I want to chime in on this.
Around late January of 2021, I was made aware of a product that was making rounds in the FB Trek modeling groups, a large scale model of the Starship Excelsior from a company called "Epitome" which apparently offers licensed apparel for certain popular pop culture, comic book/SF and movie properties. Somebody asked about it on one of the FB forums. I did some checking and while there was some slick imagery of apparent box art, something struck me as a bit "odd" about it shall we say. I saw a mention of a pre-order that could be placed and that this apparently "licensed kit" would have "signature editions" which included autographs from George Takei in the Excelsior edition and Tim Russ in the Enterprise-B edition. But there was no imagery of the kit itself at the time on the website and even the box mockup looked like something done in graphics software. I found no reviews of a product ready to go. Everything lead back to more question marks than firm answers. So in that thread where the question was asked, I posted "this smells like a scam" and recommended not going ahead with a pre-order.
In any event, not long after I posted my opinion, indeed within a few hours, I got several FB Private Messages from an individual with the initials "A.M.", who wrote:
"Hey, how are you"
"I see you know **** and several other of my acquaintances"
"So currently unless you want to sign a non-disclosure agreement between CBS and myself please do not speak on my product if you're not purchasing it.
I can also refer you to my lawyer who can kindly ask you to cease and desist from any libel that you decide to publish in a public forum."
"If you actually reached out to me and discuss this with me first I might not be such an ******* about it but you can smell scam all you want but it doesn't make it true"
This was followed by a long winded post where it seemed like he tried to connect with me on a common basis on subjects I have posted about before and apparently get on my good side. I won't bore you with the details of that.
So I kept quiet on that and didn't publicly express my opinion on the direct subject in a thread unless I was directly asked about it by friends or acquaintances, lest this perceived threat be acted upon.
Now, my current opinion is this still smells like a scam. If this isn't a scam, then this is one heck of an example of someone who is over his head big time. If this really was a licensed product over a year ago, then I would have expected a lot more information to corroborate it and not get trolled by someone who goes almost immediately for a threat of legal action within two PM postings. And while I don't know the exact legal statutes that govern protection for posts on social media and forums, I don't believe one can be sued for that and I don't know what kind of power an NDA would have over someone who hasn't signed one. Point being, it went from being kind of fishy to being A LOT more likely fishy than not in those PM postings... IMHO.
I have been in this business a long time as something more than just a simple hobbyist. I worked in hobby retail for a local Hobbytown in the mid-1990s and again in the early 2000s for a combined total of nine years. When I became active on the web circa 1998, I was a frequent contributor to some of the first SF websites to appear and a couple of them became online hobby suppliers (CultTVman and Starship Modeler). I remember when SFSM got a C&D from Paramount for doing their excellent line of vacuform Trek kits. I was around to witness the online fallout when Thomas Models had its troubles with delivering product and even though several people got roasted by that, Thomas primarily went down because of bad business practices IMHO, not because of any attempts to deliberately scam someone (and I realize my recollection is going to be different for those who lost money on undelivered product before Thomas Sasser passed away).
I even did a decal printing side business for a time and I tried to make sure I didn't take anyone for a ride. I gave it up when someone else came along with a better product. Within the past couple years, I designed decal sheet artwork for a licensed product and got box credit for it, specifically the Round 2 AMT 1/200 Moonraker shuttle model kit.
I can't stop anyone from investing in the Epitome kit by expressing my opinion on my perceptions of the project. If an actual product does exist and if it lives up to expectations, great. Then the recipients will get a chance to build something in a large size, something I could only dream about since glancing at my first Lunar Models catalog in the late 1980s. A big Excelsior has been a dream project of mine for probably about three decades now. But... there seem to be an awful lot of "buts" about this product. In my opinion anyway.
Kirk called it a "Red Alert" about the M-5. I say my Spidey Sense is tingling, just based on what I have seen posted here and elsewhere.
Around late January of 2021, I was made aware of a product that was making rounds in the FB Trek modeling groups, a large scale model of the Starship Excelsior from a company called "Epitome" which apparently offers licensed apparel for certain popular pop culture, comic book/SF and movie properties. Somebody asked about it on one of the FB forums. I did some checking and while there was some slick imagery of apparent box art, something struck me as a bit "odd" about it shall we say. I saw a mention of a pre-order that could be placed and that this apparently "licensed kit" would have "signature editions" which included autographs from George Takei in the Excelsior edition and Tim Russ in the Enterprise-B edition. But there was no imagery of the kit itself at the time on the website and even the box mockup looked like something done in graphics software. I found no reviews of a product ready to go. Everything lead back to more question marks than firm answers. So in that thread where the question was asked, I posted "this smells like a scam" and recommended not going ahead with a pre-order.
In any event, not long after I posted my opinion, indeed within a few hours, I got several FB Private Messages from an individual with the initials "A.M.", who wrote:
"Hey, how are you"
"I see you know **** and several other of my acquaintances"
"So currently unless you want to sign a non-disclosure agreement between CBS and myself please do not speak on my product if you're not purchasing it.
I can also refer you to my lawyer who can kindly ask you to cease and desist from any libel that you decide to publish in a public forum."
"If you actually reached out to me and discuss this with me first I might not be such an ******* about it but you can smell scam all you want but it doesn't make it true"
This was followed by a long winded post where it seemed like he tried to connect with me on a common basis on subjects I have posted about before and apparently get on my good side. I won't bore you with the details of that.
So I kept quiet on that and didn't publicly express my opinion on the direct subject in a thread unless I was directly asked about it by friends or acquaintances, lest this perceived threat be acted upon.
Now, my current opinion is this still smells like a scam. If this isn't a scam, then this is one heck of an example of someone who is over his head big time. If this really was a licensed product over a year ago, then I would have expected a lot more information to corroborate it and not get trolled by someone who goes almost immediately for a threat of legal action within two PM postings. And while I don't know the exact legal statutes that govern protection for posts on social media and forums, I don't believe one can be sued for that and I don't know what kind of power an NDA would have over someone who hasn't signed one. Point being, it went from being kind of fishy to being A LOT more likely fishy than not in those PM postings... IMHO.
I have been in this business a long time as something more than just a simple hobbyist. I worked in hobby retail for a local Hobbytown in the mid-1990s and again in the early 2000s for a combined total of nine years. When I became active on the web circa 1998, I was a frequent contributor to some of the first SF websites to appear and a couple of them became online hobby suppliers (CultTVman and Starship Modeler). I remember when SFSM got a C&D from Paramount for doing their excellent line of vacuform Trek kits. I was around to witness the online fallout when Thomas Models had its troubles with delivering product and even though several people got roasted by that, Thomas primarily went down because of bad business practices IMHO, not because of any attempts to deliberately scam someone (and I realize my recollection is going to be different for those who lost money on undelivered product before Thomas Sasser passed away).
I even did a decal printing side business for a time and I tried to make sure I didn't take anyone for a ride. I gave it up when someone else came along with a better product. Within the past couple years, I designed decal sheet artwork for a licensed product and got box credit for it, specifically the Round 2 AMT 1/200 Moonraker shuttle model kit.
I can't stop anyone from investing in the Epitome kit by expressing my opinion on my perceptions of the project. If an actual product does exist and if it lives up to expectations, great. Then the recipients will get a chance to build something in a large size, something I could only dream about since glancing at my first Lunar Models catalog in the late 1980s. A big Excelsior has been a dream project of mine for probably about three decades now. But... there seem to be an awful lot of "buts" about this product. In my opinion anyway.
Kirk called it a "Red Alert" about the M-5. I say my Spidey Sense is tingling, just based on what I have seen posted here and elsewhere.
Starbase101
Sr Member
Everybody's entitled to their opinions and gut instincts. I talked with "the director" again on the phone last night for about an hour and seem to be in the small minority who actually understands what's going on globally right now and how it's impacting makers of nearly everything, not just Excelsior kits. Although it's true EAD is not a large manufacturing corporation, it's also not just one person making this kit - there is a team of people involved (for example, Aztec Dummy made the paint masks). I have been given 20 sample pages from the collector book upgrade (sorry, I'm not authorized to share any of them here) and indeed a "big photo update" is planned for this weekend, aiming for Saturday morning (keeping in mind there are multiple time zones across the globe, so it's not Saturday morning everywhere at the same time). It's difficult to get work done when receiving dozens of emails, phone calls, and text messages each day (mostly from disgruntled people), and the website's kit status was added in an attempt to satisfy people's craving for daily updates. Parts casting is about to begin (it won't start until there is enough material on-hand to do ALL of the kits rather than just some of them), and there is still currently a wait for decals to be delivered from Microscale and laser-cut metal to be delivered. Provided there are no other unexpected delays out of their control, the kits are still on track for shipping late April / early May. Yes, I totally agree this (expensive) pre-order and wait has been suspicious, but it's not the only thing I'm waiting on which has been impacted by Covid, tornados, earthquakes, flooding labor strikes, etc. I will be just as relieved as all the other patient people when this kit arrives at my door, and will then also be happy that I didn't bail before it was shipped.
steam235
New Member
It’s not a licensed product and nothing on Epitome-ad.com is licensed.
That’s why he avoids all official terms on the website. ”Rebels” “Empire” “Fortune and Glory” rather that Star Wars and Indiana Jones.
In fact most of what is posted there are items that are sold on aliexpess and are being resold at twice the price. This link shows his site selling items next to the same items on aliexpress.
CBS isn’t licensing anything on a site that is 90% bootleg merch.
Round2 has the Star Trek license for model kits in the US.
This project is 25 kits at $525 = $13,125 total project revenue. How much could he pay for licensing? 10%? 20%? 25% would be about $3k
CBS isn’t getting out of bed for $3k. They certainly aren’t painstakingly going over every single piece of a kit in a project this small.
He can claim that his lawyers will sue as much as he wants, and claim non-disclosure agreements as much as he wants. But you can look at his page and see it’s all bootlegs. And we all know that Round2 had the license in the US. Any one who has any business with garage kits or licensing knows that this is in no way something CBS will license.
Nothing wrong with garage kits, they’re as old as Star Trek itsself. But it’s really suspect when a garage kit maker starts lying and saying its being licensed.
I think he's really making a kit. But you sell garage kits, by showing the kit, not by showing fancy boxes, talking about collectors books, and claiming CBS involvement where there isn't any.
That’s why he avoids all official terms on the website. ”Rebels” “Empire” “Fortune and Glory” rather that Star Wars and Indiana Jones.
In fact most of what is posted there are items that are sold on aliexpess and are being resold at twice the price. This link shows his site selling items next to the same items on aliexpress.
CBS isn’t licensing anything on a site that is 90% bootleg merch.
Round2 has the Star Trek license for model kits in the US.
This project is 25 kits at $525 = $13,125 total project revenue. How much could he pay for licensing? 10%? 20%? 25% would be about $3k
CBS isn’t getting out of bed for $3k. They certainly aren’t painstakingly going over every single piece of a kit in a project this small.
He can claim that his lawyers will sue as much as he wants, and claim non-disclosure agreements as much as he wants. But you can look at his page and see it’s all bootlegs. And we all know that Round2 had the license in the US. Any one who has any business with garage kits or licensing knows that this is in no way something CBS will license.
Nothing wrong with garage kits, they’re as old as Star Trek itsself. But it’s really suspect when a garage kit maker starts lying and saying its being licensed.
I think he's really making a kit. But you sell garage kits, by showing the kit, not by showing fancy boxes, talking about collectors books, and claiming CBS involvement where there isn't any.
t2sides
Master Member
Yeah, this “will post pics tomorrow” stuff is getting really old, and is exactly what many other non-delivered Garage companies have done for years and years. They string you along, take your money, and this is why I would never, ever do a pre-order ever again, I’ve been burned multiple times, and this is setting up to be one of those for anyone who has pre-ordered this. If these guys are legit, wait for them to finish the model, show a really good product, and they will sell out in mere days.
The fact that they are even still trying to finish the accompanying book, and have not even finished castings or showing masters is truly showing they just aren’t ready to deliver something.
The fact that they are even still trying to finish the accompanying book, and have not even finished castings or showing masters is truly showing they just aren’t ready to deliver something.
Absolutely.
Legitimacy would mean photos, updates, setting expectations and deliveries.
If it were on-track to ship in the next 3-4 weeks, we'd at least have photos.
I particularly like the response JMChladek received "So currently unless you want to sign a non-disclosure agreement between CBS and myself please do not speak on my product if you're not purchasing it." Fascinating.
This implies that EAD has a licensing agreement for ST with CBS, right?
bwize
Sr Member
Well, all tings considered, I do believe this kit is real and not a scam as you can see a boat load of progress pics on their members only FB page. I think what has happened here is a combination of inexperience with the process of model kit production and unforeseen obstacles. I keep hearing "we have a entire team working on this" on threads like this, but when you talk to the creative director, you get the impression he is a one man army working "night and day" by himself and last night when I reached out to him he stated he would be working all through the night to be able to get these photos out in a single update with all the kit parts (sans the metal parts) rather than spread out over two weeks. Only time will see if this truly happens. EAD is on the west coast. They are 2 hrs behind me, so that makes it 10AM there and still no pics.
I firmly believe that this kit should never have gone up for pre-sale without an image of a test kit. This test kit would have obviously been 3D printed and cleaned up for this purpose. It would obviously "not be the final product", but give the buyers some idea what they are buying. This is how it has been done and should be done.
Hopefully this morning, today, or sometime this weekend he will drop the pics for us all to see and make us feel like fools for ever questioning him, lol.
I firmly believe that this kit should never have gone up for pre-sale without an image of a test kit. This test kit would have obviously been 3D printed and cleaned up for this purpose. It would obviously "not be the final product", but give the buyers some idea what they are buying. This is how it has been done and should be done.
Hopefully this morning, today, or sometime this weekend he will drop the pics for us all to see and make us feel like fools for ever questioning him, lol.
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