Koolshade alternative?

[Ghastlyjeff]

Hi,
I'm just wondering what folks are using as a Koolshade alternative these days since the vintage stuff seems to be off the table?
I have a TIE in waiting and there is some talk of a "grown" version in the works...
Just curious....

Thanks

 

[solrman]

What do you mean by vintage?

The original koolshade was 17 louvers per inch. Then a machine was created that compressed the 17 louvers per inch into a 23 louvers per inch. The machine that produced 23 louvers per inch ceased functioning in 1991. Over the years, I have supplied 17 louver and 23 louver to various modelers. The difference is scarcely discernible to the naked eye. With a magnifying glass and pencil, the louvers can be counted. I am not sure what the original model ever produced used. You may feel free to contact me with quantities and sizes plus shipping address for pricing. solrman (a) earthlink.net

 

[greeble_gremlin]

Hello,

I do not profess to be an expert on this matter, though I was brought in to help produce some of the EFX TIE fighter.
I believe Solrman has it backward ( no offense) the old 1970s era Kool shade was 23 Louvers per inch, the new stuff which is still manufactured (last time I checked) is only 17 Louvers per inch.

The two types are noticeably different -but mainly when placed along side one another

And I can also say that an Improved version of the Niesen TIE fighter is on its way
I helped in a small way to make the new wings and other parts, but to be sure, the Lion's share of the credit goes to John who mastered the new wings. I think it is fair to say the between Steve and John they know more about TIE fighters that the ILMer's who originally built them

As for rumors of a Rapid-Prototyped alternative soon to be available : I can confirm that that is true.
I will be posting a thread with more details but in nutshell:

back in 2009 I meticulously recreated a 3D/CAD version of 1970s era Kool -shade form original samples.
I have a version that is "back-filled" and suitable for casting -- we call it: Virtual Kool shade
I also made a version for EFX that could be CNC-milled for injection molding
Alas, and sadly, it proved too expensive to mill such a large amount of such intricate pattern; so in the end the EFX TIE used "clayed-up" 1970s era Kool Shade.
Over all I think the EFX TIE is excellent--superb craftsmanship too bad they did not have a "cleaner" & crisper" alternative for the Kool shade areas/

the Virtual Kool Shade already been used a few time on some projects on this forum..but is coming to a Studio Scale TIE fighter near you soon
Here are some crude diagrams detailing the nature of Kools shade and Virtual Kool Shade or VKS



The above black and white schmeatic is from the company currently producing Kool-Shade at 17 Louvers per inch)
This diagram shows a early proposal (circa 2011) -cross section of a TIE wing "sandwich" using VKS


The final incarnation for the new wings will be on a new thread in the near future

 

[greeble_gremlin]

I won't say that Virtual Kool shade ( VKS ) is a good as the original stuff , but, I do believe it is the next best thing.

A few more crude Renders:


Also some renders of the "cast-able version" of VKS:


keep in mind these are crude scan-line renders with a bit of ambient occlusion,
I'll have a Mental-Ray version later, to go along with a new CG/ "screen accurate" TIE fighter mesh

 

[dsp5500]

Looking awesome Mike,
A great alternative to real koolshade and with all the research you put into this as close as it gets:thumbsup

 

[mslz22]

Awesome stuff Mike.......attention to detail in it's finest form...
mike

 

[greeble_gremlin]

Many Thanks for the compliments guys.

It was a lot of work, I had been thinking of modeling this stuff for some time, Steve had, had the same idea and "nudged" me into finally makimg it.

These are pictures of VKS test samples grown (3D printed) about a year and half ago. They are covered in grey primer; they looked even better once painted in semi-gloss black (sorry cant find those pics)

These pieces were meant to be tile-able. I was able to successfully hide the seams with male/female snap-fittings either under the louvers or inside Braided wire. and it was cast-able.
They looked great except that we had a problem with the pieces warping.

The next attempt we were really pushing the limits of the Stereo-lithography. We attempted grow as large a piece as the grow bed would allow on a 3D Systems Projet 1000. I was a 40+ hour grow! unfortunately the was a flaw in the printing and we could not get the piece to mount completely flat ( still a warpage problem)
I am happy to say that the Rapid-Prototyping / Stereo-lithography technology is advancing along so fast we are now able
to print basically, Half a TIE wing (2 sided ) in one big piece, without any problems of warping using the latest Invisions Objet machine.

...with Steve's master casting abilities we should be able to offer a 3-part wing:

-A wing, with 2 separate wing "stars" as in the hero pattern and a separate "core"-piece comprised of the Kool-Shade (VKS) triangles
Then just finish off the wing with Plastruct I-beam & T-Bar around the outside perimeter.

We will be providing instructions, schematics, and diagrams for mitering the Plastruct parts and an assembly guide.



hope this helps -sorry for the long post

 

[greeble_gremlin]

Oh yeah

MLZ22, your 2"x3" piece of VKS was sent off to be grown (if not already grown) for the Shuttle Tyderium casting

If anyone has a project that requires some component with 1970s era Kool-Shade
I can provide you with a cast-able altenative with the VKS, Keep in mind in can be in any alternative scale, say for example "double" Studio scale or 1/48 scale, etc.

 

[Ghastlyjeff]

I'm very interested in this...

 

[3DImpact]

Reviving a very old thread!

What's the best, high-quality alternative to vintage Koolshade these days for studio-scale TIEs?

Dan

 

[greeble_gremlin]

Yes, that is a very good question.

 

[Jedi Dade]

Very Cool! Is this going to be made available for purchase at some point as a sheet or as "parts"?

Jedi Dade

 

[maxhebus]

or as a printing file.

 

[greeble_gremlin]

Currently it would only print satisfactorily on a Objet or Connex family 3D Printer.
Even then you can not use the 3D print directly. ( see pictures in this thread) Rubber gets poured over it , then resin castings are made,
The resin has slightly for flex to it than the 3D print ..still needs to be handled carefully until everything is assembled to make a complete wing-core.

We are talking about large flat, relatively thin surfaces here,...

Even with new advances and cheaper 3D printing it would be cost prohibitive to print out all the panels need for a TIE fighter.
Costing more than actual Koolshade.
That is in High resolution of course. Lower resolution would be cheaper, but would look pretty bad.
To make a 3D mesh version that could be used as a print directly is still not practical. It would be too thin and would warp or distort on most 3D printers . Filament based printers would be too low in fidelity with very unsatisfactory results

A 3D version embedded in the wing and printing and printed all as one unit can be done (and has) but in my opinion the fidelity was not nearly as good as the real "analog" version) I have seen such prints first hand. You would never mistake the final 3D prints for an original model

 

[greeble_gremlin]

This has not been done yet because it is a bit of work involved and money.
The cost of the initial 3D print, the cost of all the rubber, the cost of the resin the time to assemble the masters and cast the molds.
Casting from a single 3D print master is still cheaper than 3D printing 24 individual triangles
We have been a bit busy with other projects,

It is much the same work has casting off a wing made up of real Koolshade ( with clayed-up undercuts)
Only the results would come out nicer as it is "cleaner" than the "clayed-up Kool shade

The technology is always moving along... someone may come up with an entire different approach that wiould prove tobe really nice

 

[greeble_gremlin]

Of course 3D printing Koolshade for smaller parts is feasible
...And has been done a couple of times,
for example.. I 3D printed some components for Mike Salzo's double studio scale ATAT
I also have some parts for the Falcon but there are also other version avaialbe out there that are pretty good too.

 

[3DImpact]

With a studio scale TIE model on the back burner I decided to start preparing for that eventual build and make my own 3D-modeled and printed Koolshade.

First a bit of modeling in modo with reference to original Koolshade specs and digital caliper measurements from some original material:

Then off to my new Photon Mono X resin printer with a small section to test how it prints:

Not too bad. Of course, this had to be backed by a mm thin base in order to successfully print, but even with real Koolshade TIE wings have an internal base layer anyway so I figure this will pass as good enough. I'll get a couple full sections of the appropriate dimensions printed up and then I'll try a test mold and cast...

Dan

 

[vfxsup64]

With a studio scale TIE model on the back burner I decided to start preparing for that eventual build and make my own 3D-modeled and printed Koolshade.

First a bit of modeling in modo with reference to original Koolshade specs and digital caliper measurements from some original material:

View attachment 1429824
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Then off to my new Photon Mono X resin printer with a small section to test how it prints:

View attachment 1429828
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View attachment 1429831

Not too bad. Of course, this had to be backed by a mm thin base in order to successfully print, but even with real Koolshade TIE wings have an internal base layer anyway so I figure this will pass as good enough. I'll get a couple full sections of the appropriate dimensions printed up and then I'll try a test mold and cast...

Dan

Nice...!!

Modo - my tool of choice.

 

[joberg]

Very nice indeed It almost look like the details applied at the bottom of the Aries-1B from 2001 A Space Odyssey

 

[greeble_gremlin]

It’s Deja Vu ... all over again
I went through all this myself back in 2009
At the time it was impractical to print large planes of the material,
Fast forward to 203 and it became possible... albeit expensive...
no it has finally gotten cheaper... but in resin it is very fragile and unforgiving if you bump it or such