Kits for greebles...

[Checksum]

I am starting out in a project that will take ALOT of money. No matter how I do it, its gonna cost me. But I am looking into doing a Starwars style Borg Cube. Well, not a whole cube. I was just gonna start out with a couple of panels of varying sizes. I plan on doing some mega star wars style greebling for super detail. So I figure some of the same stuff you guys use for the Millenium Falcon and other Star Wars detailing would be perfect for what I have in mind.
But What scale would be best for the highest level of detail without having to pay 80-100 dollars for a kit that is the size of a baseball. I was thinking 1/144. Is that gonna be more or less expensive that another scale?
Any kit recommendations are welcome...
Thanks
Matt

 

[Caretaker10]

You are making a hybrid..Star wars style... Sounds interesting. Got any sketches?

I am in the middle of building a Borg Cube from scratch and use anytthing i have lying around from 1:35 and other scales..
It is going to be 25x25x25 cm.

[

 

[Gattaca]

I used a lot of 1/48 scale parts for my YT-1000, which ended up being a 1/48 scale model (based on the size of the cockpit seats and pilot). So the parts you use will depend on how big your model will be, and what scale you think it will end up. You can use almost any scale of greeble provided it looks to scale on your model. If your model is going to represent a cube a half mile square, then you'll need lots of tiny parts, because a vent from a 1/32 tank might be 100 yards across (scale yards). To save costs on my model I made molds and casts of some favorite greebles so I wouldn't have to buy more kits to get a few parts. I also built modules of greebles and made molds of those too. As for what kits to use, tanks, flak guns and trucks are good. But airplanes and ships can offer some interesting parts too, you never really know until you buy the kit, so look for cheap kits. A friend of mine is a prolific model kit builder and he gave me all his unused parts, maybe you can get parts from someone in a local modeling club.
Good luck.

 

[Checksum]

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Gattaca, thats a great idea to mold some good pieces and reuse them...
I do wanna use the smallest economical size. I am looking at going for super detail. Waayyy more than was ever shown on screen. And obviously since I have mentioned I am interested in combining StarWars and Star Trek it will look like nothing they have done either. The best part about the approach I am taking is that I can build this as big or as small as I want. I can add modules of almost any size or shape and it will all fit.

 

[Checksum]

I guess I was hoping people here could offer up a few kit ideas that would be great for detail but still be economical. I'm thinking like the borg in Star Trek, its probably gonna take a little bit from this and a little bit from that.

 

[Gattaca]

I guess I was hoping people here could offer up a few kit ideas that would be great for detail but still be economical. I'm thinking like the borg in Star Trek, its probably gonna take a little bit from this and a little bit from that.

I'm afraid so, too many kits out there. I think most of the original Star Wars modelers used lots of German infantry models, might want to start there. Also search this forum for part ID, there are some streams here where people are discussing which kit specific parts on models come from. For example what that part behind the cockpit is, and someone ID's it as a thing from a Panzer tank, know what I mean? Your model idea is probably pretty original so what ever you do won't be wrong because there is nothing to compare it to, so make it however you want.

 

[Mike J.]

The TV series Borg Cube used a lot of the left-over styrene sprues from model kits for it's surface detailing. Having seen a clear photo of the TV series cube in a book, it looks a little wonky. The Borg Cube from First Contact was covered in multiple layers of finely etched brass detailing. Both of them are shown in the ST:TNG Sketchbook: The Movies: Generations & First Contact.


-MJ

 

[NextGenMaker]

The TV series Borg Cube used a lot of the left-over styrene sprues from model kits for it's surface detailing. Having seen a clear photo of the TV series cube in a book, it looks a little wonky. The Borg Cube from First Contact was covered in multiple layers of finely etched brass detailing. Both of them are shown in the ST:TNG Sketchbook: The Movies: Generations & First Contact.

-MJ

Funny you should say that; I was going to suggest using sprues for all that 'piping', unaware that the actual TNG model was covered in sprues! That is what I would do myself; sprues accumulate and with a little scraping you can get alot of good pipe filler. Can't rely on that alone, though, unless you want it to look like a screen saver in space.

Yeah, most of the Star Wars models are covered in German and generally WWII parts. Star destroyers have alot of battleship bits, I think, and the smaller vessels correspondingly have alot of vehicle parts; tanks and aircraft, that sort of thing.

If you are going to modularize your build, be careful about your edges. I remember the phrase they used to describe the Borg cube as 'totally undifferentiated'. That is, you can't make heads or tails of which why is even 'forward' on those things, let alone the power source, propulsion, anything. The surface has to be uniformly greebled: no discernible 'zones', 'decks', or 'substructures', and if your modules can be picked out of the final build it won't look Borg-y, it'll look like a Rubik's Cube. So I'd craft your modules with a wide margin all around the edge, then glue them to the substructure that will support the model, and greeble over the margins to blend them together into a cohesive expanse of...Borg. It'd pay to assemble them onto the substructure with an extra hollow around all the edges and fill that in so the underlying cube can't be seen.

A useful and economical base filler material might be plastic cross stitch canvas; 8.5"×11" sheets in packs of 10 are like 10 bucks tops and they give you a simple gridwork/grating material you can use in all sorts of ways, and it comes in a number of styles and gauges.

 

[Joosh]

I think for what you're talking about you'd probably want to stick to 1/72 and up. I've built lots of 1/144 aircraft and a handful of 1/144 vehicles and while some are fairly detailed those are usually the pricier beasts and for what you're going to pay for those you can get several 1/72 or 1/48 scale cheap vehicles with many more parts.

Check out e-bay as well under Toy&Hobbies>Model Kit do a search for model lot or ship lot, something like that, there's usually tons of aircraft, which I don't think will give you the bang for the buck as far as donor parts as ships or vehicles, but I've picked up a couple vehicle lots over the past month that have been pretty reasonable.

Also, if you go the e-bay route be careful, there's at least two people selling model boxes (no parts, just boxes) and you have to really dig into their listing to find where they mention that it's just boxes.

 

[Jedi Dade]

Well the real bog cube was essentially a cube form (big surprise) with a bunch of cutouts with lighting behind as a base. Then tons of greeblies were glued onto the outer surface, and then the sprue was used form a TON of kits for piping, with it all sprayed variations of black copper and other darker metallic colors. If you look at its closely (the Blu Rays are awesome here), it really is a hack - a glorious hack - like most of our favorites... So in reality the approach you're using is pretty much exactly like what they did :cool

Oh and I forgot on the top right hand front corner there is an AMT Enterprise deflector disk just under the sprue.. I wish I could find that reference pic for you

Jedi Dade

 

[Checksum]

Yes, I have researched the BOBW cube and have quite a few detailed pictures. I dont actually own them or I would post them. Some of the pics I have are from something called the Las Vegas Experience:Star Trek thing they had at one time. And you can see quite alot of detail. There really is not that much sprue used. Only bits and pieces. Most of it looks like they started with an underlying structure of greebles and all kinds of different stuff. Then they had some plastruct beams. Then there is the finer wire looking mesh that gives it that piping look woven in. Also they used alot of photo-etched brass on the top layer for detailing. But I cannot tell if it is plastruct tubing glued together to make the mesh look metallic. Or if they actually welded fine metal piping to create the mesh. I do know that it is not for the most part sprue. Its too fine. And even taking into account the size of the original model I dont think the sprue works out.
I am planning on going mega crazy for the greebles and details. So its gonna be a slow project. But thats also why Im doing the modular approach.

 

[Mike J.]

FWIW, one of the re-invigorated borg concepts from First Contact (later discarded) was an obelisk.


-MJ

 

[NextGenMaker]

FWIW, one of the re-invigorated borg concepts from First Contact (later discarded) was an obelisk.

-MJ

Hmm, why not go three for three and make a Guts-on-the-outside Borg Monolith?

 

[Checksum]

When I get started the actual shape could end up as anything. But I do plan on going overboard with detailing. Im off to buy some cheap kits...

Do all the Jadg Panther 1/144 models come pre assembled and painted? When I look on ebay it seems like thats the only way they come? I suppose you can still use it tho...

 

[Joosh]

When I get started the actual shape could end up as anything. But I do plan on going overboard with detailing. Im off to buy some cheap kits...

Do all the Jadg Panther 1/144 models come pre assembled and painted? When I look on ebay it seems like thats the only way they come? I suppose you can still use it tho...

If you're talking the Can.Do from Dragon, yes. That entire line is preassembled as far as I know. In 1/144 I think Matuo Kasten is nearly all kits, although lots of detail is molded on.

Here's a link from Hobby Link Japan for the 1/144 kits (although a few might be preassembled, sometimes their key wording isn't the best). Military; Military Vehicle Kits; 1/144 Scale | HobbyLink Japan I don't see the Dragon products listed on there, so they might be out of production now. It might help you in your search as far as finding a starting point. They generally have some good photos as well- including the sprues from time to time.

You might be better off looking at 1/72 scale, you'll still find a fair amount of molded in detail, but more parts overall. 1/35 scale is going to be more expensive, but also probably have a much greater variety of small parts overall. There were a few nice lots of 1/35 Tamiya and the like when I was surfing through Tuesday that I considered jumping on (I build the vehicles rather than using them for greebles- I know, I know that's almost a banning offense on here), but I just found out last night I'm being transferred again, so my hobby stuff will all be getting packed up over the next couple of months.

I think I said 1/48 scale vehicles in a previous post- there are only a few of those. It's the airplane builder in me, most larger scale vehicles are 1/35, whereas aircraft are 1/48/.

 

[Checksum]

Does anyone have a preference for a quick easy product for making simple flat pieced molds and casting them? I know that smooth on makes one and there is 1 other. Does anyone have an opinion on one brand or another? I would like to buy something all in one. Just a starter size. Then if I like it I could buy a larger size...

 

[Gattaca]

Smooth On OOMOO is easy to use, just a 2 part 50-50 mix. These products have a 6 month shelf life so just buy what you will use in that time. You will wast your money buying big kits that you never use or you open the kit after 9 months to find a useless glob of gooey rubber inside.
Some tips here on my blog for molding and casting small parts Gattaca Models and Props: More Small parts casting

 

[Checksum]

Gattaca...
Just how important is it to back fill the gaps? Would I be better off doing a 2 part mold instead? Alot of the parts I want to duplicate I dont want to harm or destroy. I have a piece of 1.8th inch foam board and have tried sticking some of the pieces into it. But there are still a few spots where Im pretty sure its gonna be a problem...

 

[Snicol]

Im in the midst of greebling my reliant and the anakins podracer model by amt is a goldmine of greeblies...got it for 5 bux on ebay...id like to see some pics when you get going also.

 

[Gattaca]

Gattaca...
Just how important is it to back fill the gaps? Would I be better off doing a 2 part mold instead? Alot of the parts I want to duplicate I dont want to harm or destroy. I have a piece of 1.8th inch foam board and have tried sticking some of the pieces into it. But there are still a few spots where Im pretty sure its gonna be a problem...

It depends, OOMOO is pretty soft so a part that is a bit larger than the pour hole should squeeze out by stretching the rubber mold. you don't want to have to stretch the mold so much that you risk tearing it. Also you'll want to backfill any objects that i call bridges, where the rubber will flow under or into the object and trap it. Sometimes it may be necessary to cut your mold to free objects and that can work too. The best way is to just try some things and you'll see what works and what creates problems. I cast my parts with Smooth Cast 300, it's very viscous, meaning it's thin like water not thick like syrup so it flows into the small details. And it's clear before it sets so if there are bubbles you can use a toothpick to draw the bubble up and out of your mold. And it's easy to sand so getting the back-side flat is easy.
it's easy to backfill an object with a bit of plasticine, just make sure you use the proper kind, you should be able to get some where you buy you molding supplies. Some plasticine's contain chemicals that will inhibit the cure process.