Kingsman: "Carnwennan 9mm" * Video Update 8.23.18

[userd1402]

Re: Kingsman: The Secret Service, "Carnwennan 9mm" *finished!

The TT30 arrived this morning and it's magnificent. I love the patina of old firearms and this one has 80 years of handling to soften and polish the bluing. It was made in 1935 and has a low serial number. I think I got a real steal here.



I'm going to start planning the underbarrel attachment on paper and work out all my measurements, dimensions, operating mechanisms and attachment methods, before I hand over to a digital builder for the actual 3D construction and output.

 

[Sundowner]

Re: Kingsman: The Secret Service, "Carnwennan 9mm" *finished!

That looks awesome! Do you know what did they do to deactivate it?

 

[userd1402]

Re: Kingsman: The Secret Service, "Carnwennan 9mm" *finished!

There are several standards for deactivated firearms here in the UK; Pre-1995, Pre-April-2016 and a new Europe-wide standard this year. There are also laws governing the sale or transport of air-weapons and RIF's (Realistic Imitation Firearms) which govern toys, models and replicas. Live handguns were blanket banned in the UK in 1995 after a mass shooting and are currently controlled under the Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006 (VCRA). If, like me, you want to collect handguns for display you still can, they just can't be live-firing (we even make our Olympic target shooting team go abroad to train!).

Deactivation standards changed across the whole of Europe, last Friday (April 8th 2016). Up until then deactivation involved having the barrel disabled by a proofing-house grinding out the rifling and welding a hardened steel rod inside it. They also grind off the firing pin and grind out the walls of the receiver chamber to make everything mis-align. Barrels must also be non-removable. The idea behind this is that it becomes more difficult and expensive to reactivate an old deact than it does to build a new gun in the first place and gun-makers are easier to trace and prosecute than gun-sellers. The new 2016 Europe-wide standard required that triggers and internal mechanisms are welded solid and that magazines are welded in. If no magazine is presented to the proofing house with the gun they will fill the magazine receiver with weld so a mag can not be inserted. Any sale or transfer of a deact will also require re-proofing to the latest standard (which is just BS!).

As an example of what I'm talking about, this photo shows a few of my current movie gun projects to illustrate the different ways the law here views kinds of 'gun-shaped-thing'.



* The Sterling sub-machine-gun (Star Wars E-11) is a 2015 deact. with moving slide and trigger and removable magazine. It will not stay ****** or dry-fire but is otherwise complete and pristine. In the UK anyone over the age of 18 can own this real gun. Some of the Star Wars E-11 blaster builders here on the rpf tell me that if you buy a deact. like this in the US it comes torch-cut into four or five big chunks (now that's overkill!).

* The new Tokorev TT30 pistol (Kingsman; The Secret Service) is an older deact. with full functionality which can be stripped, ****** and dry-fired. Again this is legal for anyone over 18.

* The Mauser 712 schnellfeur (Star Wars DL-44) is a Marushin plug-fire gun which has a solid barrel and fires blank caps (full auto) and is legal for anyone over 18 as long as it is kept in a VCRA-compliant finish such as the gold colour it came with. I have cleaned the plating off this one and blued it which 'technically' makes it a RIF (realistic imitation firearm) and that is illegal.

* The M2019 PKD (Blade Runner Deckard blaster) is a full metal Sidkit replica with a hollow steel barrel and since it is 'based' on real firearm components (Steyr Mannlicher rifle reciever on a Charter-Arms Bulldog revolver) it is arguable that it should come under the RIF regulations and so may be 'technically illegal' to own without at least having a blaze-red barrel plug permanently fitted, like children's toy guns.

* The Mal Reynolds (Firefly) pistol is a full-metal Sidkit which will be finished to match the real firearm used in the show BUT since it 'appears' to be based on a pre-1870 design (american civil-war volcanic revolver style) it is not covered by any restrictive regulation whatsoever.

* The Beretta M9 (Blade II, Reinhardt's Samurai pistol) is a 7mm-blank-firing cap gun in full metal which fires full-auto and is legal for anyone over the age of 18 as long as it conforms to VCRA-compliant bright coloured finish (unless you have a VCRA defense). Since I have returned this one to it's correct realistic steel finish it is now 'technically' illegal for me to own as I do not have a VCRA defense.

* The Crosman 177 air pistol at the top (Star Wars IV Greedo blaster) is legal for anyone over the age of 18 but may NOT be sent through the UK postal system (unless made before 1939) and can only be purchased face-to-face through the registered firearms dealer network.

* The scout trooper boot blaster (Star Wars VI) is not restricted in any way as it is not based "on any real modern firearm or generic design of modern firearm".

** The machined steel light saber has yet to be classified as dangerous as far as I am aware, although if I were to hit you over the head with it.....

Needless to say I would never take any of these outside my house uncovered. The police in this country don't carry guns but they do have armed-response units available and there have actually been several cases in recent years of people being shot because they have been waving realistic imitations around in public. You can own realistic imitations if you have a VCRA defense though; A defense is that you are a museum or other historical display open to the paying public or that you belong to a registered historical re-enacting society or 'skirmishing group'. There are even laws these days which govern air guns. For instance, you are not allowed to post an air weapon through the postal system in the UK unless it was made before 1939! Oh, did I mention that pre-1870 weapons do not have to be deactivated at all, and can be kept live without a firearms licence? I did say it was complicated.

Anyway, this is all probably waaaaay more information than you wanted when you asked a simple question but when I get started talking about my hobbies I just can't stop yakking. Just ask my wife!

 

[veektohr]

Re: Kingsman: The Secret Service, "Carnwennan 9mm" *finished!

That's quite a knot of regulations to unravel @_@


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Farrellk08]

Re: Kingsman: The Secret Service, "Carnwennan 9mm" *finished!

That is a very interesting set of regulations to have to overcome to build your props.

 

[userd1402]

Re: Kingsman: The Secret Service, "Carnwennan 9mm" *finished!

I may have made it sound more strict than it is in reality.

The truth is things are pretty cool here for these items. To have real-steel bases for my blasters I simply buy legal deacts or plug-fire replicas or air pistols through dealers with full paperwork, or from private sellers who already hold them legally and it's no problem.

Those who complain about firearms restrictions in the UK tend to forget we live in one of the safest countries in the world and I'm quite happy to live within the rules.

 

[userd1402]

Re: Kingsman: The Secret Service, "Carnwennan 9mm" *finished!

Congrats! I'm looking forward to your progress! I'm in the process of get the under barrel 3D modeled as we speak.

I think that it would be best to throw my lot in with you Sundowner. It's silly for both of us to be creating exactly the same thing so what I'm going to do, if it's OK with you, is wait and see what you are able to create and then purchase one of your 3D output from you. That way we both win.

I also know that you can get 3D prints output in bronze, steel and even stainless steel if you output them through Shapeways and I love my guns in metal.

 

[jarroth]

Re: Kingsman: The Secret Service, "Carnwennan 9mm" *finished!

one, maybe wierd observation wich might have a logical answer but why are quite alot of movie prop guns based on realy crappy base weapons?

 

[veektohr]

Re: Kingsman: The Secret Service, "Carnwennan 9mm" *finished!

one, maybe wierd observation wich might have a logical answer but why are quite alot of movie prop guns based on realy crappy base weapons?

I think in most cases it's because they're cheap, and at least in some cases there are a lot of them out there as well. Sooooo many people made Tokarev clones. Same with Mauser C96s. Just tons of surplus. Does the Tokarev have a bad rep? Seems like a decent 1911ish shooter to me. I've never handled one, so my knowledge is pretty much limited to Hickock45 vids...

 

[userd1402]

Re: Kingsman: The Secret Service, "Carnwennan 9mm" *finished!

one, maybe wierd observation wich might have a logical answer but why are quite alot of movie prop guns based on realy crappy base weapons?

As the owner of the Tokarev I must say it's not crappy by any means. Considering this gun is 81 years old and went through the second world war in the posession of a Soviet army officer you would be mistaken for thinking it was ten years old it's so solid. Crappy weapons don't hold up this well to the ravages of time.

But I do agree with you in one sense; movie weapons are going to get much crappier in the future because film makers don't use real firearms or blank-firers anymore, they just use plastic stunt guns or cheap airsofts and add muzzle flashes later digitally. I'm not a fan of that because the new hi-resolution movie cameras capture every detail and show up how crappy the props really are.

 

[jarroth]

Re: Kingsman: The Secret Service, "Carnwennan 9mm" *finished!

tokarevs are well build but are not nice to shoot with. angle of the grip is steep so it feels bit awkward and even painfull when fired. but that might be my opinion only. didnt like it at all

 

[userd1402]

Re: Kingsman: The Secret Service, "Carnwennan 9mm" *finished!

I'm in the process of get the under barrel 3D modeled as we speak.

Any progress with this little project lately Sundowner? Sorry, I'm just naturally impatient, (according to my wife anyway).

By the way, I found a photo of one of the hero guns when it was displayed at a press event. The under-barrel attachment doesn't appear to be a separate clamp attached to the underside of the frame but is actually part of the re-profiled frame mentioned on IMFDB. There's a beautifully smooth frame-to-clamp transition which shows it as one piece (not that you would try to replace the entire frame with a new one in a replica so just for information).

 

[Sundowner]

Re: Kingsman: The Secret Service, "Carnwennan 9mm" *finished!

Wow that is a great picture! I'm still working on measurements for the designer which is kind of hard for them without actually having the prop in hand. I may just send it off

 

[Noeland]

Re: Kingsman: The Secret Service, "Carnwennan 9mm" *finished!

That is a stunt casting. The extra material on the bottom of the trigger guard, attaching the trigger, that's a giveaway.

 

[userd1402]

Re: Kingsman: The Secret Service, "Carnwennan 9mm" *finished!

Yes, I see what you mean but then if the hero had a joint line between the frame and shotgun clamp, Wouldn't the filler they used to cover it show up in the cast? It would be a lot of work to make this filler so perfectly smooth and invisible when the filler around the trigger area is so obvious. Since this transition is so super-sharp it makes me think the hero guns would have had the extended frame and smooth transition too.

 

[Noeland]

Re: Kingsman: The Secret Service, "Carnwennan 9mm" *finished!

They smooth over stuff on stunt castings all the time. Very common. Some times the back half of trigger guards are filled in. Some times they do it to protect the hero from rubber mold material getting into seams and actions and things, and some times it's so they can have a visual marker on set to distinquish the hero gun from the stunt guns. Heck, the pulse rifles on Aliens looked very different as the barrel shrouds were cast wrong. Still used 'em, and most viewers never noticed a thing while watching the movie.

 

[Sundowner]

Re: Kingsman: The Secret Service, "Carnwennan 9mm" *finished!

I'm at it again! v3 is coming along and this time I'll be experimenting with molding and casting. I finally have a one part mold/casting under my belt so I'm hoping to be successful with a two part mold.

 

[userd1402]

Re: Kingsman: The Secret Service, "Carnwennan 9mm" *finished!

No 3D printing?

 

[Sundowner]

Re: Kingsman: The Secret Service, "Carnwennan 9mm" *finished!

No 3D printing?

A few pieces have been printed

 

[Titanic]

Re: Kingsman: The Secret Service, "Carnwennan 9mm" *finished!

I'm at it again! v3 is coming along and this time I'll be experimenting with molding and casting. I finally have a one part mold/casting under my belt so I'm hoping to be successful with a two part mold.

View attachment 688548

Hi Sundowner

Can we expect a run in the near future?