Katana finishes help

[Weapioneer]

Greetings,
I am building a couple of katanas for a cosplay, just a regular plain set of katanas out of plywood. I am just going to cut it out, shave it down to a blunt edge and make a tsuba out of pvc. Problem is, i want the katana to have a good finish, so it looks like a real or atleast close katana. I have spray paint, but the effect it produces is somewhat like this -->

rather than more metallic. I was thinking of using this as a base coat, then applying aluminum foil on the top of it like-->

But when I did a test run, i could not get it nearly as smooth as this guy did, always leaving streaks no matter what i tried. Can someone either suggest a better way to achieve a realistic katana with a hamon or way to get the foil this smooth?
Thanks.

 

[Siliconsmith]

Do you mean you used the paint as adhesive for the foil? I've used wood glue before in foil-coating the inside of a wooden lamp, and that works well. Having a good layer of glue acted also as a cushion of sorts so that I could lightly scrape along the foil with a straight edge or just with your fingers to reduce creases/bubbles. And of course you will want to have plenty of warm moist rags to mop up all the excess glue.

It may also help to include pictures of the streaks you are seeing so people here can better diagnose.

 

[Weapioneer]

well, I used regular food grade foil and some spray adhesive I have. I just did a test batch, on some slightly rough wood, but the streaks left were only by the brush i used to press down the foil, and i could not achieve the smooth finish the guy did in the picture. I do not have a camera, so i can't give a picture.

 

[ave4uevoli]

the wood has to be smooth as a baby's butt - and don't use a brush to smooth out the foil- use a rubber squeegee or something fairly flat to really smooth out the foil. Don't be afraid to press hard.

 

[Weapioneer]

Hmm, I shall try that, it seems like a much better idea. >.< now I feel stupid from not thinking of that.
On the topic of cosplay katanas, what are the best material to build them out of which will be allowed at all decent conventions? I certainly don't want to go through the effort of making an entire costume but getting blocked because my weapon is 'too hard' or something. I have MDF, fiberglass and resin, PVC sheet and pipe, plywood, etc. I don't like cardboard since it is weak as hell. Also, i am planning a zabuza costume. For those who don't know, he holds a ridiculously huge sword, comparable to the buster sword, and of a idiotically large length, width and thickness. How can i make a strong sword which looks good and is convention safe?

 

[Siliconsmith]

For reference, here's the weapons/props policy for Otkaon, the main convention I've been to: Vitals: Policies

For something that large, and to keep the weight down, you'd have to use some sort of foam at some point. You can either carve the shape out of something like pink insulation foam, or make a hollow form out of sheet plastic and then fill with spray-expanding foam. I'd avoid wood for anything other than the handle/pole, simply for weight reasons.

 

[2DLogic]

I'm currently in the process of making a prop katana too, a replica of Vergil's Yamato from Devil May Cry. I've also made a couple other swords in the past.

I've tried almost every method of blade finishing tricks out there online, including the foil method, and while it can look decent in photos, the effect doesn't translate nearly as well when seen in person. It's also not a very durable finish, even sheathing the katana needs to be done very gently or you can scratch or tear the foil. Lining the inside of the sheath with a soft cloth can help prevent this to a degree.

One way to fake a hamon is to take advantage of the fact that most rattle can clear coats will dull a metallic finish. Once you have your blade finish to your liking, which is best done by cold casting and polishing or using a buffable silver spray imo, you can trace your blade shape on some scrap paper, cut out the part that you want to show the hamon, tape it on to your blade and lightly spray some clear coat. Ideally the clear will slightly dull the shine you had on the blade leaving you with that clay tempered look.

As for what to build from... Generally wood is acceptable at all but the most strict conventions, resin cast props are also mostly acceptable. As I said though, cold casting and polishing the blades is the best way to achieve a realistic look, imo. Eventually I'll make a mold of my best blade and start making them that way, for now it's just not worth me shelling out the start up cost to buy all the molding supplies.

For the Zabuza sword, I'd go with an insulation foam core then fiberglass it for durability.

Edit: Also, first post in 2 years of lurking. Lol.
Hello everyone.

 

[Weapioneer]

I just had an idea. Since a good hamon is not easy to get, I think i will just spray paint the black part of the katana to give it some texture. Does anyone know what the black band on the sides of the katana close to the spine are? I havn't seen the name of that part, nor know how it is blackened.
Thanks for the term cold casting, I knew there was a process like it, but did not know the name. Do you know any International brands of Resin and metal powder? Also, will plaster of Paris work for casting resin?

 

[2DLogic]

Not really sure what you mean by "black bands"... the only thing I can think that might be mistaken for bands would be the bo-hi, what some people incorrectly call a 'blood groove', but that is actually a recessed area in the blade designed to lighten it while minimizing loss of strength.

Maybe this: http://www.shinmyoken-phoenix.co.uk/PC-sword-parts-600px.png will help you figure out which part you're talking about.

 

[Weapioneer]

I meant these bands near the mune on these blades


They might be the hi, but I really can't make out. Unfortunately, weapons are not common where i live, much less a katana. Can you look at the pictures and tell me if they are the hi or something different? Also, do you know any good international brands for PU resin and metal powder for cold casting? Maybe also fiberglass and resin? Also, How usefull/useless is modge podge for protecting a prop? or varnish meant for oil paint? Are they good for just a light protective coat, or completely worthless?
Thanks

 

[EZBSVS]

Hey, just a thought about your Aluminum Foil idea;

At least here in the USA, they actually sell Foil faced tape. I've seen it used effectively in smaller models, but I think it's wide enough for a Katana blade, and also the sticky back helps keep it from getting the small wrinkles you had above.

As for Cold casting, if you can find the materials, that always looks good, just make sure you polish it properly. I think Smooth-on ships internationally, otherwise it might be worth it to go ask any hobby shops, or even auto supply stores. Polyurethane resin is your best bet for cold casting, but I think fiberglass resin would work okay, as long as you can tint it black. I'm not sure about cold casting in plaster, but if you want to try it and let us know, I'd be interested. Could be useful for making one-off props without the expense of all the Silicone.

Dunno if any of that helps, but good luck with it!

 

[Weapioneer]

Ok, after some testing, I found out somethings-
Foil works splendidly for giving a metallic effect, but depends on the talent of the craftsman to apply it smoothly. A brush is useless for smooth finishes, as is using a hard straight edge. Sponge or microfiber cloths work best. Foil is resilient, but NEEDS a clear coat to protect it or it can easily ruin the work. The material to be coated needs to be smooth enough to be practically reflective even if it is wood. Going to the highest grain and steel wool is probably a good idea. The smoothness of the material and the spreader make huge differences. Also, applying the glue evenly helps.
This stuff is kinda obvious, but it might help to have it written down anyway.
Only problem is, foil is tough to cut with a craft blade, and too weak to cut with scissors, especially for a katana length weapon. Using both sides of the foil like the picture in my first post would require an expert. It would probably better/easier to go for cold casting.

By the way, is cold casting with 1:1 ratio as strong as just resin, or stronger or weaker? Can fiberglass resin be mixed with metal powder to achieve the same as PU resin with metal powder?
Thank you guys a lot for helping me,

 

[2DLogic]

I meant these bands near the mune on these blades
View attachment 215298
View attachment 215299
They might be the hi, but I really can't make out. Unfortunately, weapons are not common where i live, much less a katana. Can you look at the pictures and tell me if they are the hi or something different? Also, do you know any good international brands for PU resin and metal powder for cold casting? Maybe also fiberglass and resin? Also, How usefull/useless is modge podge for protecting a prop? or varnish meant for oil paint? Are they good for just a light protective coat, or completely worthless?
Thanks

I don't think that those blades have a hi carved into them, but it's difficult to tell for certain. I think what you're seeing as a band is really just the way the light is reflecting off of a part of the blade that has been differently tempered. If you want to try to recreate that light diffusing effect I'd still recommend experimenting with the way various clear coats effect metallic paint finishes. Just as an example this is the fake hamon on the blade I'm making for my Yamato using the afore mentioned method:

This was with a matte clear, I'm sure you could use a gloss or satin in a mask along the shinogi to get a different diffusion effect. I'd test it on some scrap first however to see if it's what you're looking for. Airbrushing some very diluted black along the spine might also give you the differentiation that you're looking for.

I'm in the US, so unfortunately I have no knowledge of any international sources, and I've never personally worked with Modge Podge so I can't speak for how durable it is or how it would react to a metallic finish.

I have never heard of cold casting effecting the durability of the resin and as far as I know you can get basically the same effect with polyester resin as you can with polyurethane and epoxy resins. I did read once that copper powders will speed up the cure time of polyester resins, so it's recommended to use epoxy or urethane if cold casting copper, however I have never seen the effect first hand.

 

[Weapioneer]

That is a very nice look, looks practically real! I think i will try casting with just resin, since there is no strength advantage to using cold casting, and i can't get cold casting supplies in my area. What is the brand/type of clear coat you use on your projects? Also, if you use clear coat to make the hamon, then won't the hamon effect go when you apply a protective layer of clear coat over the blade?

 

[2DLogic]

Thanks, I'm fairly happy with it; though this is the 6th time I've repainted it. If I were to do it again however I'd make the pattern a bit wider and more irregular, I'd also pull it back from the blade edge a bit.

Most craft and hobby stores in the US sell metal powders, if they ship internationally Smooth-On also sells them in larger quantities.

Normally I use either shellac, polyurethane, or simple rattle can clear depending on the project and how each finish will react to the type of paint it will be protecting. I've never taken much stock in brands, but that paint job is done with Rustoleum Brilliant Silver and Matte Clear. I don't do any kind of roll playing or masquerade so my props generally don't see that much convention wear.

Correct, if I were to spray on more clear the effect would cover the entire blade area and the 'hamon' would be lost. For this project, which will see some wear from drawing and sheathing the blade, I'll either pick up some Pledge/Future floor wax, which has a good reputation for not dulling metallic shines. Or I may try some automotive wax to see how that works.

 

[Weapioneer]

ok, thanks. So do all automotive waxes protect paint coats well? I am a bit ignorant about automobile and floor care, but i thought waxes just made it shine rather than form a hard protective layer, like polish rather than a clear coat. Do all automotive waxes protect or is it just a particular type?

 

[2DLogic]

They protect fairly well in my experience, especially if its an area that isn't going to be handled a lot. I'm sure most other hard drying clear coats would give better scratch resistance, but the wax can be easily reapplied.

Like I said I treat my props and replicas pretty well so they don't see a lot of abuse in the first place.

 

[Weapioneer]

I was going to use a sheet of plywood i had handy, which was PERFECT in size, thickness, everything. Except when i cut it, I found it was a cruddy type of plywood which has two sheets sandwiching a layer of bits and pieces, so the sword would be absolutely FILLED with holes. I haven't been able to find a decent bit of plywood, so I was wondering, what if i were to make the sword from a couple of layers of MDF instead? I can get MDF in large sheets near where i live, but MDF is not that strong and a utter pain to cut. Is there any way to strengthen MDF sheets so my hardwork won't snap? Maybe fiber glass resin, but I have not managed to get resin to set ever smoothly. Any ideas?

 

[nomuse]

Totally off the top of my head, I wonder if raw truss rods from a luthier might be used to strengthen a blade of foam, resin, or MDF -- Stew-Mac has carbon fiber rods out to 24" in length.

For a more flexible strength, I'd go threaded 1/4" steel rod; the hardware store chain around here (Ace) carries them in up to four feet in length for quite cheap. The thread will grab glue, and gives you options for less permanent assembly as well (I used some last to connect the Wall-E style "eyes" on a remote-controlled robot prop in a recent stage production).

I'll have to try the foil technique. It sounds even more fiddly and annoying than gold leaf, though. Last thing I used was good old Rub-and-Buff (which doesn't look bad on some props).

 

[Weapioneer]

I think i shall try to cut the sword from the plywood, then after I have shaped it, I will coat it in multiple layers of fiberglass resin. Just the resin, around 1-2 coats of it, maybe go up to 3. It would also fill the holes in the wood. What do you think?