Surreal Studios
Well-Known Member
LOL I have the same problem, I have a few i keep in the back prop room, and every single time I walk in there:facepalm
Iron Man Mk3 Build
- Thread starter electraflier
- Start date
LOL I have the same problem, I have a few i keep in the back prop room, and every single time I walk in there:facepalm
electraflier
Well-Known Member
Well, a rainy Wednesday evening and I have some progress to report before I cook my dinner. LOL! My wife is a workout person so she's at classes which means I get to Pep! Yeah me! 
Here are the completed shin pieces built from Dancin_Fool's files! I am very pleased! I am however battling Floridas 100% relative humidity and experiencing some slight sag and warp on the more open shin pieces.:unsure The pieces are just sitting on each other so not assembled, just posed!:cool
Hopefully the resin and rest of the prep work will hide it.
I was talking with a friend the other day and discussing the sag and warp issue as part of the problems in the building of a pep helmet, I had the idea of doing the inside first with the helmet held/hanging neck up so that the resin soaked parts "sag" back out under the weight of the resin when wet. Thus the cure will bow it back outwards preserving some of the curves. I think I will do this for the shin as well. By painting the inside any tension/pull/torque created by building will ease and create a better curve. I have also temp'd a few popsickle stick shims inside to hold the form better.
The pieces are pretty tight and I am going onto the "dongles" knee disk hinges and all the flaps on the lower calves.
I want to cast this, so only need to build the one. I believe that assembling the pieces then resining them as one unit, doing all my building up and sanding then casting is the plan. Then cutting them apart after casting. I would love some input about the best route, links to someones build with process and ideas would be hugely appreciated!!
Well off to do my dongles! I just had to say it LOL!:sick
Here are the completed shin pieces built from Dancin_Fool's files! I am very pleased! I am however battling Floridas 100% relative humidity and experiencing some slight sag and warp on the more open shin pieces.:unsure The pieces are just sitting on each other so not assembled, just posed!:cool
Hopefully the resin and rest of the prep work will hide it.
I was talking with a friend the other day and discussing the sag and warp issue as part of the problems in the building of a pep helmet, I had the idea of doing the inside first with the helmet held/hanging neck up so that the resin soaked parts "sag" back out under the weight of the resin when wet. Thus the cure will bow it back outwards preserving some of the curves. I think I will do this for the shin as well. By painting the inside any tension/pull/torque created by building will ease and create a better curve. I have also temp'd a few popsickle stick shims inside to hold the form better.
The pieces are pretty tight and I am going onto the "dongles" knee disk hinges and all the flaps on the lower calves.
I want to cast this, so only need to build the one. I believe that assembling the pieces then resining them as one unit, doing all my building up and sanding then casting is the plan. Then cutting them apart after casting. I would love some input about the best route, links to someones build with process and ideas would be hugely appreciated!!
Well off to do my dongles! I just had to say it LOL!:sick
Dancin_Fool
Well-Known Member
It looks great!! I think this is the first time I've seen the calf built!! I think you're probably right the best bet is to assemble it all, resin, and then cut it back apart. You might have to remove some of the supports to get it all glued together. I went a little support crazy on some of the pieces lol.
electraflier
Well-Known Member
Thank You Dancin! That is very kind of you!:$ But not one part of this would have happened without your pdo's!! :ninja
I have always taken the Robert Frost "Road less Traveled" approach to life, so had to go opposite everyone else! So why not the bottom!:behave
Actually, I am so very glad you added all the supports!!! . You can see some of my popsickle stick supports on softer edges and maybe a couple internal "shape holder" angled sticks. There is also a good view of the carbon fiber edges as well... That could have added extra torque as well. :darnkids
The torque created by bringing in the outer sweep of the calf caused some torsion that needed to be counteracted until the cardstock "relaxed" into the shape. So there was not one part you added that didnt need to be there!!!
I went one up though! I knew I was going to have to assemble the calf into one unit so I could fit everything tight and do all the filler/sanding and glass to make it mold worthy.... soo, I rotated all the struts to the inside where ever possible so they fit against eachother with no issues! :cool
Hopefully I didnt outsmart myself LOL! Everything fits though on the tests I did. Nothing interferes except for good clearance when I resin the inside with a resin brush. I'll just have to go slow. After it dries I can cut some supports/struts out for better clearance. I am not going to resin the struts unless I have too, they'll be easier to cut out as plain paper as well.
I am debating if I should put a thin balsa edge around all the parts that need to be separated, it would be fast and cut apart easily when it comes time to separate everything.... any thoughts?
I have always taken the Robert Frost "Road less Traveled" approach to life, so had to go opposite everyone else! So why not the bottom!:behave
Actually, I am so very glad you added all the supports!!! . You can see some of my popsickle stick supports on softer edges and maybe a couple internal "shape holder" angled sticks. There is also a good view of the carbon fiber edges as well... That could have added extra torque as well. :darnkids
The torque created by bringing in the outer sweep of the calf caused some torsion that needed to be counteracted until the cardstock "relaxed" into the shape. So there was not one part you added that didnt need to be there!!!
I went one up though! I knew I was going to have to assemble the calf into one unit so I could fit everything tight and do all the filler/sanding and glass to make it mold worthy.... soo, I rotated all the struts to the inside where ever possible so they fit against eachother with no issues! :cool
Hopefully I didnt outsmart myself LOL! Everything fits though on the tests I did. Nothing interferes except for good clearance when I resin the inside with a resin brush. I'll just have to go slow. After it dries I can cut some supports/struts out for better clearance. I am not going to resin the struts unless I have too, they'll be easier to cut out as plain paper as well.
I am debating if I should put a thin balsa edge around all the parts that need to be separated, it would be fast and cut apart easily when it comes time to separate everything.... any thoughts?
Surreal Studios
Well-Known Member
The shin looks great ! I may have mis read, but are you planing on using resin and fiberglass cloth on the inside of the parts ? If you are just going to resin them and not use the cloth, they will not hold their shape very well, especially when cut apart. Also there will be flex in them and it will crack the filler that you use on top of the pep. You really want to make sure the pep parts are nice and strong before doing and cutting apart or detailing of them!
electraflier
Well-Known Member
Hey Surreal! Glass and resin are a definate possibility.:unsure I was really hoping to avoid bondo and glass, and have some RC hobby tricks up my sleeves..I had also seen Xrobot and a couple of the 405th site folks use casting plastic as an inner and outer coat of the pep, so was going to do some research to learn more.
One kid on Youtube/405th did a Halo helmet that sounded as hard as a baseball helmet after an outer coat by brush in casting plastic and 2 inner coats... roto'd in though a hole...If I can harden it enough to take a skin and sand job and then cast them I might not have to glass... :angel I might still need some glassing though.
I have already bought resin, some fine 20oz cloth and a new kind of resin my guys from the airplane world are using. It is supposed to be very stiff and sandable if you do it right and keep the moisture exposure down. In Florida that is like asking for a miracle LOL! I'd take any ideas you'd like to contribute as I do want to mold these like you did! Thanks Surreal!
One kid on Youtube/405th did a Halo helmet that sounded as hard as a baseball helmet after an outer coat by brush in casting plastic and 2 inner coats... roto'd in though a hole...If I can harden it enough to take a skin and sand job and then cast them I might not have to glass... :angel I might still need some glassing though.
I have already bought resin, some fine 20oz cloth and a new kind of resin my guys from the airplane world are using. It is supposed to be very stiff and sandable if you do it right and keep the moisture exposure down. In Florida that is like asking for a miracle LOL! I'd take any ideas you'd like to contribute as I do want to mold these like you did! Thanks Surreal!
Surreal Studios
Well-Known Member
Whatever you end up strengthening your parts with just make sure those parts are strong and have no flex, from your pic of the boot it looks like your using drywall compound for the detail, the stuff works great (i have used it too) but it doesnt bond too well to resined parts and certainly not to a plastic coated part, and when it cracks it pops off in big chunks and there is nothing more frustrating then having that happen to a finished piece, had it hapen to me a few times. Hate to see that happen after you put in a ton of hard work on that killer shin!
electraflier
Well-Known Member
I love this unique and interesting Hobby so much! :lol
There are so few hobbies left that enable you to take this litle piece of cardstock with lines on it ->
and turn it into this ->
Something utterly unique and beneficial to only us armor builders!!
This is what Dancin_Fool allowed those of us using his files to do! Create something that cannot be bought at a Wal-Mart or hobby shelf, nor a knock off. This is something that brings someone like me one piece closer to having a lifelong childhood dream come true!! Iron Man armor!
There are so few hobbies left that enable you to take this litle piece of cardstock with lines on it ->
and turn it into this ->
Something utterly unique and beneficial to only us armor builders!!
This is what Dancin_Fool allowed those of us using his files to do! Create something that cannot be bought at a Wal-Mart or hobby shelf, nor a knock off. This is something that brings someone like me one piece closer to having a lifelong childhood dream come true!! Iron Man armor!
electraflier
Well-Known Member
Hmmm, I do see your point Surreal...:facepalm
I wonder if coating it with PVA glue first, then applying the spackle would help? Sort of like what XRobot does to stick paint to foam...The flex is another issue all together. I just need to make one really good mold though... I would also still have to seal and primer then sand as well, so that is alot of high stress handling for the parts..
I am using a kind of spackle that is called CrackShot. It is high grab with some flex and bonds to steel as well as wood and drywall. I guess I need to flex my test pieces to the extreme and see what happens.. I may have to use bondo instead...after all... I will flex test one of my test pieces and let you know what happens and try to peel it off on purpose as well., I thank you very much for the good heads up! Let you all know in the morrow..
I wonder if coating it with PVA glue first, then applying the spackle would help? Sort of like what XRobot does to stick paint to foam...The flex is another issue all together. I just need to make one really good mold though... I would also still have to seal and primer then sand as well, so that is alot of high stress handling for the parts..
I am using a kind of spackle that is called CrackShot. It is high grab with some flex and bonds to steel as well as wood and drywall. I guess I need to flex my test pieces to the extreme and see what happens.. I may have to use bondo instead...after all... I will flex test one of my test pieces and let you know what happens and try to peel it off on purpose as well., I thank you very much for the good heads up! Let you all know in the morrow..
ugameenough
Active Member
love what your doin with the sheets of wood. thats genius.... cant wait to see more...
Dancin_Fool
Well-Known Member
That was very clever reversing the supports. I think it could possibly cause issues if you were glassing because you'd probably have to get them out of the way but if you're using the smoothcast... 65 is it? Then I don't think they'd be a problem.
I love seeing updates on this build, it's so clean!
I love seeing updates on this build, it's so clean!
Surreal Studios
Well-Known Member
electraflier
Well-Known Member
So, Surreal 1 electraflier 0 LOL! Good call and thanks for the heads up. I flexed my practice pieces and was able to generate pretty good cracks easily...they held up to a point, but then cracked.:sick
I have not yet begun to fight!
I found a sandable wood glue today that I am going to mix with the spackle to see if I can improve adherence and flexibility. I am going to keep working and order my Smooth Cast this weekend after some more research and hope it will create as rigid a shell as it appears,,, If I can coat the parts and get them rigid enough where flex isnt an isue the point might be moot.
I have no problem fiberglassing the inside as well if I have too. I just want something more workable than bondo..for my detail work. Spackle carves like soap so would take alot more details with less work.? hmmm.:wacko
I was also thinking spackle then a thinned coat of resin over that and then auto primer as the sandable layer, then make molds. The thin coat of resin might improve my durability long enough to make it to mold.
I hope you know hoe much I appreciate your input and advice!
Thank you!
M
I have not yet begun to fight!
I found a sandable wood glue today that I am going to mix with the spackle to see if I can improve adherence and flexibility. I am going to keep working and order my Smooth Cast this weekend after some more research and hope it will create as rigid a shell as it appears,,, If I can coat the parts and get them rigid enough where flex isnt an isue the point might be moot.
I have no problem fiberglassing the inside as well if I have too. I just want something more workable than bondo..for my detail work. Spackle carves like soap so would take alot more details with less work.? hmmm.:wacko
I was also thinking spackle then a thinned coat of resin over that and then auto primer as the sandable layer, then make molds. The thin coat of resin might improve my durability long enough to make it to mold.
I hope you know hoe much I appreciate your input and advice!
Thank you!
M
Surreal Studios
Well-Known Member
if you dont want to use bondo, you can always use super sculpey, it is a polymer clay that stays soft untill you bake it, you could try that for the detail work, you can also sand it once it has been baked, just depends if you can get your parts to fit in your oven lol
Dancin_Fool
Well-Known Member
Question, if you're planning on molding all the pieces, does it really matter if they have any flex?
You could even use some an oil based clay for your detail work. That's what I did for my Beast mask that's in my avatar. I built an armature from a pepakura file, then hardened that with an epoxy resin and then layered the clay on top of that. Then I molded the sculpture and pulled a latex mask from the mold. The great thing was I was able to reuse the armature, I pulled all the clay off it and glued the mask to that so that it would keep it's shape.
You could even use some an oil based clay for your detail work. That's what I did for my Beast mask that's in my avatar. I built an armature from a pepakura file, then hardened that with an epoxy resin and then layered the clay on top of that. Then I molded the sculpture and pulled a latex mask from the mold. The great thing was I was able to reuse the armature, I pulled all the clay off it and glued the mask to that so that it would keep it's shape.
Surreal Studios
Well-Known Member
ya it would not be a big deal if you were using clay, but drywall compound is being used and it only mechanically bonds to resined parts, so here is the scenario... you apply your filler to your part to finish it, you start sanding and the pressure from sanding flexs the part and the filler cracks/pops off, since the piece was not reinforced. If you go with a oil based clay you wont have to worry about it drying and cracking with flex from the part on you. If you go with clay make sure you get a sulphur free clay or you wont be able to mold it, the silicone will not set
Last edited:
electraflier
Well-Known Member
I really appreciate all the comments! I really had tried clay on a test piece and was not happy with the results... It was not oil based and dried...cracking badly. I have seen the sites and links for people that truly model in clay and I admire their skill, but I have never done that and not sure the skill will come that quickly LOL!
The whole reason I was interested in spackle as a potential medium is that I want to make a single mold off a part. Then pour it in plastic. The mold needn't be as sturdy as bondo and I was hoping to shorten prep time.
I have learned more than you probably think from these comments as it is helping me rule out ideas I had considered..
I believe that Surreals' valuable points lead me to making sure that my pep "core" be super rigid and inflexible if I intend on using my desired spackle method. I do like Dancin_fools points about making it strong enough only for my desired purpose as It is intended to be a "One-Off" type framework... I might investigate clay, but was very glad about the sulfur based clay comment.
I have to do some serious research this weekend and will chase some threads and product info... I can be stubborn, but as a hospital administrator I have to listen to my experts and voices of experience then make decisions, sometimes ones I dont like. Bondo is cheap, I can have all I need tomorrow and a sander to boot if need be.
I also for the sake of ruling things out, tried my idea of adding a sandable wood glue to my spackle compound tonight before I spread it on my old test boot. This is another disadvantage as it has longer drying times than bondo, so it will be tomorrow or saturday before I can sand on it due to drying and work issues that arose tonight.
This is actually a great test platform as I did not fiberglass the inside. If it can handle an even moderate amount of flexing I will consider it a success. If the flexing cracks it, it will be an epic fail and I will have to either make every thing very very rigid to the max or change my game plan, and go with fiberglass and bondo. Truly the question is, Can I get pieces, especially the larger, chest and back pieces rigid enough to succeed with plan A. Not looking so good right at this moment..:cry
I want this to succeed and persisting in the face of evident failure would be useless and result in rebuilding of Peps and while I love building them LOL I do not relish building too many duplicated parts over and over...Pepakura hell of a thousand rebuilds! I would rather take a five finger death punch to the chest than that LOL! :confused
I am sorry to always be long winded, (it helps me think), but as always I appreciate the wisdom and kind words of support!
M
The whole reason I was interested in spackle as a potential medium is that I want to make a single mold off a part. Then pour it in plastic. The mold needn't be as sturdy as bondo and I was hoping to shorten prep time.
I have learned more than you probably think from these comments as it is helping me rule out ideas I had considered..
I believe that Surreals' valuable points lead me to making sure that my pep "core" be super rigid and inflexible if I intend on using my desired spackle method. I do like Dancin_fools points about making it strong enough only for my desired purpose as It is intended to be a "One-Off" type framework... I might investigate clay, but was very glad about the sulfur based clay comment.
I have to do some serious research this weekend and will chase some threads and product info... I can be stubborn, but as a hospital administrator I have to listen to my experts and voices of experience then make decisions, sometimes ones I dont like. Bondo is cheap, I can have all I need tomorrow and a sander to boot if need be.
I also for the sake of ruling things out, tried my idea of adding a sandable wood glue to my spackle compound tonight before I spread it on my old test boot. This is another disadvantage as it has longer drying times than bondo, so it will be tomorrow or saturday before I can sand on it due to drying and work issues that arose tonight.
This is actually a great test platform as I did not fiberglass the inside. If it can handle an even moderate amount of flexing I will consider it a success. If the flexing cracks it, it will be an epic fail and I will have to either make every thing very very rigid to the max or change my game plan, and go with fiberglass and bondo. Truly the question is, Can I get pieces, especially the larger, chest and back pieces rigid enough to succeed with plan A. Not looking so good right at this moment..:cry
I want this to succeed and persisting in the face of evident failure would be useless and result in rebuilding of Peps and while I love building them LOL I do not relish building too many duplicated parts over and over...Pepakura hell of a thousand rebuilds! I would rather take a five finger death punch to the chest than that LOL! :confused
I am sorry to always be long winded, (it helps me think), but as always I appreciate the wisdom and kind words of support!
M
Dancin_Fool
Well-Known Member
Ahhh of course I hadn't thought about the flexing from sanding, I knew I was missing a piece of the puzzle.
Surreal Studios
Well-Known Member
Ya the clay would work though DF , he could even try the super sculpey clay, as i said it stays soft till you bake it and if he is using the smooth cast 320 on the inside to strengthen it, it should hold up in the oven ok as smooth cast 320 has a high melting point. Hate to see anyone put in ALOT of finishing work to have it not work out in the end .DF your MRK 3 pep files deserve a nice finishing touch, as I and many others have said many times before they are THE BEST MRK 3 files out there, and electraflier has done one HELL of a job at building them so far
thumbsup buddy
