History of Salzo / Captain Cardboard X-Wings?

ouizel

New Member
Can someone lay out for me a history of the SS X-wing kits from Mike Salzo and Captain Cardboard. Are they the same kit? If so, what 'version' of the Salzo kit was done by CC? Or is that backwards? What are the major differences between all of these kits?

Sorry if this is a lot of material to cover, but thanks.
 
Can someone lay out for me a history of the SS X-wing kits from Mike Salzo and Captain Cardboard. Are they the same kit? If so, what 'version' of the Salzo kit was done by CC? Or is that backwards? What are the major differences between all of these kits?

Sorry if this is a lot of material to cover, but thanks.

First came the CC then the Salzo. I think there was an old thread here about this but I haven't been able to find it yet.

I've also seen some strange "mutants" on Ebay that i do not know the origin of - resin kits with and without the cockpit frame molded in , with and without droids already molded into the upper back plate - all kinds or permuatations - origins unknown.

Try searching for "Captain Cardboard" - I think someone reviewed the kit once.
 
The CC was the first generation, and as such is inferior to its successors, Mike Salzo's V2 and V3. The CC fuselage is basically over-slender, with a coarser shape and coarser surface detailing than the V2 and V3. The V2 corrected the over-slimness and was more refined in its shape and detailing, but was let down - like the CC - by the dodgy fit of the glue-on canopy. The V3 is superior here with an ILM-style molded-in canopy, which gives great authority to the fuselage, despite the fact that the canopy is a tad over-wide. Although generic, the surface detailing of the V3 is incredibly good, a damn fine rendering of ILM texture.
 
Where does the ICONS fit in ?


In the dark times.*

Gene

*Pre-Capt. C'board

Indeed.... :)

OK... here goes... from the story Scott Alexander (Captain Cardboard) told me himself...

ILM made Pyro X-wings and blew them apart during filming. The pieces were picked up and thrown in a box. Years later ILM moved and left some boxes behind. Someone there found the parts in the box after cleaning up the area that ILM left.... I believe it may have been John Eaves.... but don't know for sure. At this point the parts were cleaned up and put together, applying new parts to make complete and then basically turned over to ICONS for molding.

The ICONS artist proofs were done and one was given to Lucas himself, where it sat in his office. Eventually, the wings began to droop as these casting were known to have issues from time to time, but not always. Lucas was doing something with someone he worked with before on other projects (I can't remember his name, but Scott "Capt. Cardboard" is friends with him) when the subject came up of the droopy wings. As it didn't really have true meaning for him (being that he owned the originals).... Lucas asked his friend if he could do something about the wings and his friend told him he could. Years went by and he did nothing with it. Scott was at this person's home one day and saw it sitting there and his friend (who's home he was at) told him he had no time to fix it as he thought he would be able to. He asked Scott if he could. Scott then took the beastie to his shop where he took measurements directly from it and made the CC X-wing kit we all new back then. It is exact in every dimension to the Lucas ICONS artist proof except for the canopy.... which became a bit smaller. BOOM! The CC X-Wing kit was born!

From there Mike Salzo purchased the masters from Scott and re-worked them into the much better V2 kit.

Then Morten Moeslund began scratch building a HERO studio scale X-Wing from the RED 3 photos taken at the Archives for Master Replicas. The body turned out very nice and Mike obtained it from Moe, then re-worked better, more accurate wings to the HERO bird and BOOM again... the V3 kit was born. Then... a year later Mike again went to his bench and accurized even more to be specific to each of the six in Red Squadron. BOOM! The V3.1 was born.... and now? OUT OF PRODUCTION. ;)

Now... even years later he never fixed the original artist proof as we all know Scott has no time what so ever these days. Then, a few years back, when I heard of it's origin... even with the droopy wings... and because it was basically forgotten about by all involved... I now own it. It is a droopy masterpiece...LOL.

So... there you have it.... including the dark times my friend and mentor Gene refers to. lololol. ;)
 
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Actually, Grant McCune shop did the Pyro shots. The parts left over where not destroyed XWINGs, but the masters they used for casting.

John found the box when he worked for Grant, and was helping move the shop. Grant gave him what was in the box, when John expressed interest in it. The Box had the WING, engine, and Butt Plate masters.
There was one complete Gun as well. There was a fuselage, that had been partially crushed. John repaited the fuselage, and eventually aquired parts that were missing, rear hatch, gun tips etc from folks who had worked for ILM or Grant.
Those parts were the same parts loaned to ICONS. WHo modified thier castings to make sure they would never be confused with real Xwings.
Max Cervantes did those modifications, and he himself told me about it.

When MR went to make thier XWING, the same parts were loaned to them, but rather than Just remold 4 times and modiefy them, the parts were molded ONCE, then those castings sent to the factory in HK where they were scanned and modified to match the RED 5 Reference pictures.

EFX would eventually finish the effort. The Fuselage was scanned, and rebuilt in the computer. It was also corrected for shrinkage based of measures and dimensions off of HERO Ships. Then grown, and cast for production. Unfortunely, the same % of Shrinkage correction was also applied to the actual kits parts, which DIDNT need correcting as they were real parts.

Thats why the real parts are oversized.

I still feel the EFX XWING, is the most accurate reproduction out there.
Im happy to have one in my collection.

Frank
 
There was one complete Gun as well. There was a fuselage, that had been partially crushed. John repaited the fuselage, and eventually aquired parts that were missing, rear hatch, gun tips etc from folks who had worked for ILM or Grant.

Hello Frank,

I'm very interested in those parts especially the fuselage.Can we see the picture of them?


Kaoru
 
Wow! Fascinating stuff. Thanks, everyone.

I asked because I have a CC kit on the shelf and have (what I now believe to be) a Salzo V3.1 kit on the way and was trying to put the two kits into context.

Excellent history lesson!

--Doug
 
Interesting on the V3.1, I never heard of that version. I think this thread should be archived so we don't loose all this info on these great and historic kits.

I'm very happy with my Salzo V2 and would love to one day build a V3 or this elusive V3.1
 
The V3.1 had only a few minor changes from the V3, new laser cannons, rebuilt phantom engines, and updated engine cans (all inspired by the MonsieurTox build), all pretty subtle small things. It was only available for a very short time last spring.
 
Thanks for the info Mike! You know, I do remeber that now. It went OOP just before I had the money for one. That's why I went with the V2 that's in my avatar.
 
Hello Frank,

I'm very interested in those parts especially the fuselage.Can we see the picture of them?


Kaoru


Sure here are the pics that were loaned to MR from JE.


masters.jpg



Here are one of the sets of castings I was hired to do to.

castings.jpg
 
Interesting on the V3.1, I never heard of that version. I think this thread should be archived so we don't loose all this info on these great and historic kits.

I'm very happy with my Salzo V2 and would love to one day build a V3 or this elusive V3.1


The SALZO v3 Fuselage...was made by Morten Moesund using reference we had and also received from others, as well as the castings above.

Thats why it looks as good as it does. We also have a RAW casting, one of the ones some folks have seen from time to time...that is a DIRECT casting out of Grant McCune's Mold. One of the guys I know, Ran Grants Mold shop,..and when he was over my garage one day, he recognized it.

I thought it was a casting of a casting of a casting..of something good. However I had no idea its significance until he inspected it.


Just a Plug for Mike's Kits. They are the SNIZZLE on the WHIZZLE.
Its one of those ICONIC (no pun) kits that....if you dont have it..someday you REALLY wish ya did.
 
Excellent stuff! How many (as a guess) of these kits were ever made? 500 total, of both CC and Salzo versions? 1000?
 
I thought Randy Cooper made the CC X-wing for Scott? or at last some of it?


He made the CC fuselage. So he told me.

The R2 Strip on the Original CC XWing was a casting of one I made.
I helped Scott with some of the parts for the rest of it also,...
 
May be a little off topic and I'm surprised it has not come up yet. It usually does. So I'll go ahead and ask what a lot are thinking. When are we going to see a V4?:cool
 
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