Has anyone in the UK had probs with the VCR bill?

[Boy-C]

Hi Everybody!

So far I've not come across anyone who has experienced problems whilst importing individual replicas or props into the UK, until now.
Things were looking quite positive after its introduction last year, as it appeared to go un-enforced (is that a word?)
2 weeks ago however, a relative who collects "wild west" memorabilia was awaiting delivery of 2 replica colt six shooters, opened his door only to be met by 2 officers of Her Majesty's Metropolitan Police Force. They stated that they'd been asked to attend by the postal sorting office who had opened his package (got through customs but not the postal service!) and they reported that they had found what they described as a "Replica Fire Arm" to his local Police Station.

Long story short, he was 'asked' (ahem Told cough) to attend the station within the next 24hrs with details of any other replicas he may have in his possession with proof of purchase to determine the date(s) when they were obtained. He went that afternoon with all the documentation he could find.
My uncle was quite taken aback by it all and he said that the police didn't seem to have a clue where they were going with this. He was told they would be continuing their investigations and he may be cautioned or charged if these investigations proved he had breached the VCR bill, even though they couldn't define the bill to him.

Since all this went on, and after investigating the bill further, it appears that almost all of the replica's he owns were designed before 1870, including the 2 colt's which have been seized. As such these are exempt from the VCR bill, and the 3 replica's he has which were designed after 1870, he has receipts proving he purchased them in 2006.
He has sent all this information onto the relevant officers who were investigating the complaint, as well as a copy of the VCR bill with the relevant sections highlighted showing that this legislation is not applicable in these circumstances.
So far, no further word, and he's out £150 for his new replica's because he can't retrieve them!

To me, this just seems completely FUBAR! Police investigating a crime that does not apply, under legislation and laws they don't understand!
Has anyone else had any experiences themselves? Good, bad or otherwise?
Thanks for reading

Simon

 

[defstartrooper]

Not had any isues myself or heard of anyone else who has prior to this.
I hope your uncle manages to get his property back i can't see how the police can hold them if they don't fall under the VCR bill.

 

[exoray]

Well honestly the law was passed and you would have to figure it would be enforced sooner or later...

Good luck to your relative on getting them back if they are true pre 1870 designs... Although most traditional "Wild West" six shooters were post 1870 designs...

 

[Hammer3246]

Blu-Ray is the new way...VCR is old school, tell the coppers to keep it

j/k

 

[ursus43]

I just recently sold an Anime Vermillion pistol to a person in London and he said he received it with no problem.

 

[Shingouki28]

Sometime last October, not long after this ridiculous act came into force, my parents had a few items stolen from their home after my brother had left his bedroom window open. My parents rang the police to report it. However, on arriving and spotting my younger brothers collection of airsoft BB guns, the two officers suddenly became very excitable and started making calls back to the station, asking for advice on what to do about a "cache of unlicensed/illegal automatic firearms" that they had discovered
the main ones being cheap-as-chips-wobbly-plastic FN P90 and H&K XM8 replicas as they had 'realistic' looking rounds in the clear magazines. Anybody on close inspection of these could see that these were NOT real...I would have thought the bright orange plug on the ends would have been enough to tell them that. Now neither of these officers seemed to have a clue as to wether or not it was legal to own these replicas...My dad pointed out that he was pretty sure it was only illegal to buy or sell such replicas AFTER the VCR act had come into place, and that owning them prior was not an offence. He even showed them the receipts for the airsofts, which were purchased around January 2007. The two officers looked utterly bewildered at being told this, and unsure of what to do... So instead of concentrating on the theft of the thousands of pounds worth of electrical goods from my parents home, they instead started to bag up all of my brothers airsoft rifles (even the undersized toy cap guns with orange plugs) for confiscation and informed him that they were taking them down to the station to have a firearms officer come in and confirm that they were within the law or not and if they weren't, that they would come back with a search warrant for my parents house and more then likely "make a few arrests". Now nobody in my family has EVER been in trouble with the law, least of all my parents and my brother has hardly ever fired his BB guns, let alone taken them out of his bedroom! Yet he had to wait two weeks to have his "weapons" cleared, and had to go to the station to pick them up himself which is ridiculous in itself as he informed them that he couldn't drive, and that being seen walking down the street with two large assault rifles, even in bags, could land him in SERIOUS trouble with an over zealous armed response unit. As for my poor mum (being the private and timid person she is at times) spent all that time worrying that the police would break down her door, tear her house apart and arrest my brother. The two policemen dealing with this really didnt have a clue...It was a "better be safe then sorry" approach as far as they were concerned but common sense did NOT prevail in this case..I mean come on!? How many people living at home with the parents in the UK have access to real, fully automatic H&K XM8's or FN P90's?! Oh, and as for my parents being burgled...There was "not enough man power" to deal with the case fully... Our local police force are tubes :angry

 

[Bobtherocker]

Honestly, the people whos job it is to know dont seem to have a clue. The Police, dealers, customs officials etc.
The people it affects such as collectors and costumers seem to know EXACTLY what the score is but find themselves dealing with morons and thus getting stitched.
I recently tried to get hold of a replica brown bess musket and was told by many dealers that it would have to be sprayed yellow. When i told them about the pre-1870 exemption most of them said "oh, i didnt know that."
Ironically one of them told me he could sell me a deactivated musket no probs and all i needed for a real working and fully active musket was a shotgun licence.
It does beggar belief that the law enforcement agencies really are dunbfounded by this silly act.
You'll find until they've found a nice middle ground on enforcing this act that it'll be gung-ho zero tolerance or nothing at all.
Of course, it's not actually solving gun crime just swelling the ranks of gun criminals, me now being one of them :lol

 

[Boy-C]

Thanks for your input guys.

If I'm honest I'm not all that fussed about the police force airing on the side of caution if they are uncertain of specific laws when something unexpected is thrust upon them because lets face it, in the UK there are enough useless, inane and trivial laws which have to be followed. I think what really yanked my chain about this is that they attended my uncle's property ALREADY aware of the complaint, but still didn't have the foggiest what to do! Also, it appears that the police aren't really allowed much room for common sense!!

On a slightly more positive note my uncle did speak with an old friend who is now retired but used to serve as a firearms officer in a different part of the country. He took quite an interest in the new bill when it was introdced last year and shared a few pearls of wisdom.
Firstly, if the design does pre-date 1870 then asking the seller to include some information in the package will almost always ensure safe passage through customs and the postal service, even just a printout from Wiki should suffice.
Also, if anyone is looking at importing a modern realistic imitation firearm replica (post 1870) they can do so as long as at least 51% of the item is covered in one of the colours listed in the VCR bil (ie bright red, bright orange, bright yellow, bright green, bright pink and bright purple). He even suggested that, if the seller was willing, you could use latex paint on just the metal sections etc, he believed that this type of finish would not be questioned and that the latex paint could be easily peeled off without damaging the finish. He mentioned this whilst making his point that being in breach of the bill is almost impossible to prove or prosecute.

(it should be noted that the above idea is not recommended as this would be classed as manufacture of a Realistic Imitation Firearm, an offence under the VCR bill. The point he made was that you don't need to prove date of purchase for the purpose of this bill, and as such it could not be proven that this manufacture took place after the introduction of the bill.)
***NOTE please do not take this as law or blame me if you follow the above "advice", as this is only what has been suggested!! NOTE***

Hopefully the items that have been seized will be returned but as of yet, almost 15 days since this all started, and still no word. I'll let you know!

Anyone else had any problems?

Thanks for reading.

Simon

 

[MikeyX]

I've been waiting in trepidation for these 'first enforcement' stories

I decided that I wouldn't buy anything after the bill went through - but it's scary to have my fears confirmed about the police having so little knowledge on how to enforce it.

 

[Great_Bizarro]

Would using services such as UPS be the better way to transport these items?

 

[Boy-C]

Good news!! the boys in blue have confirmed that the replica shooters are in fact exempt from the VCR bill. They even offered their apologies for the inconvenience, and then hinted that the powers that be at their particular station would not be following this line of inquiry in the future as its "more hassle than its worth" due to the fact that the bill "makes little or no sense in application" because its "one big mess that has been left to the police to try to tidy up" (this sounds promising!).

All was looking good until they dropped the bombshell (lets face it, this wasn't unexpected):

"all we've got to do now is submit the documents required to have the replicas removed from the customs office storage facility. You can them collect them from the station. With luck, they haven't destroyed them yet. You should receive written confirmation of their status in 4-6 weeks" (My uncle said he couldn't stop laughing at the ridiculousness of this)

If it were me..... I'd be crying :cry

I've got a resin BSG blaster kit, painted bright red, being shipped from the US as a bit of an experiment to see if a kit would be greeted in the same manner as these fully assembled and realistic looking replica's.

I'll let you know how it goes!

Cheers

Simon

 

[Boy-C]

Would using services such as UPS be the better way to transport these items?

Don't know about this. Originally I thought that it would be customs that would pick out items in breach of the VCR bill, but in this instance, it was the postal service.

Even more confusing was that they were then sent back to the customs department to be held in storage........ :confused

I don't think customs or the postal service know what they are supposed to be looking for, so it's questionable if it'll make any difference!!

Good luck, and if you take the plunge, let us know how it goes.

Simon

 

[Birdie]

Very unusual for the post office to open a package. I wonder how that came about? :confused

 

[Boy-C]

Very unusual for the post office to open a package. I wonder how that came about? :confused

That crossed my mind as well, but I just dismissed it as I really don't know much about how the postal service works!! Having said that, I have had packages opened in the past, even when sent from inside the UK.

I probably should mention that a lot of the info I'm getting here is 2nd or 3rd hand (from the police, then from my uncle), so its not outside the realms of possibility that it was customs that originally reported the package.

I just hope that, not only are the pistols returned, but that not too many genuine collectors get burnt because of these new laws, and what little understanding the authorities seem have of them!

Cheers

Simon

 

[firebladejedi]

Very unusual for the post office to open a package. I wonder how that came about? :confused

Everything that comes into this country via the mail system is x rayed on arrival, suspect packages are then opened and if needed they then get forwarded to the police :thumbsup

 

[Birdie]

Everything that comes into this country via the mail system is x rayed on arrival, suspect packages are then opened and if needed they then get forwarded to the police :thumbsup

Yeah, but you would normally expect that to be done by the customs people, not the the post office, right?

How little we really know about the stresses and strains our precious packages go through on the way to our collections. :confused

 

[TheDoctor]

Hmmm... Good thing Character Options already made the Laser Screwdriver.

Did Lucas replace Indy's Whip and gun with Walkie Talkies? :lol

Seriously though, that sucks. Interestingly enough, the VCR bill also contains stuff about "Anti-social behavior". I would have totally spent my youth in prision!!