Exactly!! Lol!! He’s got the attitude “I built the ******** thing now piss off”
Han Solo ANH Blaster From RIA, Prev on Pawn Stars
- Thread starter JoeG
- Start date
Exactly!! Lol!! He’s got the attitude “I built the ******** thing now piss off”
I would say with 99% certainty that the scope is indeed the screen-used scope from Han ANH Hero Blaster - all the surface wear and details just match up too well for me to think it's some sort of replica. And yes, I do agree that the entire thing is very dubious with regards to how he claims he built it, although keep in mind that would exclude things like repainting the lower and adding the mystery disc/greeblies that were done after Bapty build the blaster.
So even if he did make the original Hero prop he wouldn't have done the entire thing, which could explain his blase answer when asked if he made it (flimsy as that sounds, I know). And it wouldn't surprise me if they did indeed cobble the Hero prop together from several real C96's since we do know they swapped out the lower receiver and safety, at the very least; but by that same logic I just wouldn't be too surprised if Bapty also had more than one bullbarreled C96 in their inventory as well.
And some of what Karl says IS consistent with what we know about the Hero prop - he said that he himself did not cut down the barrel, as that would have been done prior to him/the original maker adding the scope mount and such to the C96, as seen in the Naked Runner, etc. Not that this necessarily proves much, but at the very least he hasn't said anything that would make me openly question whether or not he had made the original Hero prop based on what we know.
I know it's not a very concrete argument, and I DO agree it is best to follow the evidence as best we can over assumptions or educated guesses, although I think they have their place as well. For now I'll just see what the concensus about the scope ends up being, and whether or not any further evidence might emerge about whether or not this could have been cobbled together with spare Bapty parts on a backup C96.
So even if he did make the original Hero prop he wouldn't have done the entire thing, which could explain his blase answer when asked if he made it (flimsy as that sounds, I know). And it wouldn't surprise me if they did indeed cobble the Hero prop together from several real C96's since we do know they swapped out the lower receiver and safety, at the very least; but by that same logic I just wouldn't be too surprised if Bapty also had more than one bullbarreled C96 in their inventory as well.
And some of what Karl says IS consistent with what we know about the Hero prop - he said that he himself did not cut down the barrel, as that would have been done prior to him/the original maker adding the scope mount and such to the C96, as seen in the Naked Runner, etc. Not that this necessarily proves much, but at the very least he hasn't said anything that would make me openly question whether or not he had made the original Hero prop based on what we know.
I know it's not a very concrete argument, and I DO agree it is best to follow the evidence as best we can over assumptions or educated guesses, although I think they have their place as well. For now I'll just see what the concensus about the scope ends up being, and whether or not any further evidence might emerge about whether or not this could have been cobbled together with spare Bapty parts on a backup C96.
kpax
Sr Member
This was brought to my attention just recently. Just had a chance to take a closer look. Interesting it shows up now...
I agree with most here. Mauser,FH, mount/crossbar and grips not the screen used or promo pic HERO at all. Not close.
Scope... maybe. As Scott and Chris and others pointed out, many scope details match the best HERO pics pretty close. Of course there are or could be some extra dings from additional damage and wear/age over the years.
The "damage" does match up close but so does the damage on my replica and I wasn't "really" trying to fool anyone. For a million bucks I can do better! : )
It could be the actual scope and probably is... but would need to see it in person ( they can send it to me to examine if they want to ; ) ) or much better pics of the entire thing. But how much is the scope worth alone if it is original? No idea but not much to me personally.
Would they fake a scope and leave the rest horribly inaccurate? Who knows... but they did!
Rick said the SN matched.... The upper does not have Carsons' Lump or other very noticeable details so it can not be the Promo pic HERO or the one used to make the cast props since they both have the lump. IF the SN match, this is a big fraud IMO. Many of our props have the numbers as well. The actual damaged numbers were replicated by me very closely so the damage matched too. Does this one? They did not show much.
I also agree that Rick didn't look too close and the armorer was very cavalier about it. You would think that for $1,000,000 they would have more "story" This guy wanted to get out of there. Most would have been proud to talk about their most famous prop. No? They did not handle it like a million dollar prop either. They dropped it on the table and slid it etc. Just odd IMO.
I think if they made 4 of these one would have shown up before this. And the actual Promo pic Mauser would still have the original scope on it. If this is the actual scope then where is the Consular?... actual Mauser/blaster.?
Very odd indeed. Look forward to more convo.
I agree with most here. Mauser,FH, mount/crossbar and grips not the screen used or promo pic HERO at all. Not close.
Scope... maybe. As Scott and Chris and others pointed out, many scope details match the best HERO pics pretty close. Of course there are or could be some extra dings from additional damage and wear/age over the years.
The "damage" does match up close but so does the damage on my replica and I wasn't "really" trying to fool anyone. For a million bucks I can do better! : )
It could be the actual scope and probably is... but would need to see it in person ( they can send it to me to examine if they want to ; ) ) or much better pics of the entire thing. But how much is the scope worth alone if it is original? No idea but not much to me personally.
Would they fake a scope and leave the rest horribly inaccurate? Who knows... but they did!
Rick said the SN matched.... The upper does not have Carsons' Lump or other very noticeable details so it can not be the Promo pic HERO or the one used to make the cast props since they both have the lump. IF the SN match, this is a big fraud IMO. Many of our props have the numbers as well. The actual damaged numbers were replicated by me very closely so the damage matched too. Does this one? They did not show much.
I also agree that Rick didn't look too close and the armorer was very cavalier about it. You would think that for $1,000,000 they would have more "story" This guy wanted to get out of there. Most would have been proud to talk about their most famous prop. No? They did not handle it like a million dollar prop either. They dropped it on the table and slid it etc. Just odd IMO.
I think if they made 4 of these one would have shown up before this. And the actual Promo pic Mauser would still have the original scope on it. If this is the actual scope then where is the Consular?... actual Mauser/blaster.?
Very odd indeed. Look forward to more convo.
Oxford
Active Member
Tony is actually the owner of Bapty. Karl works there part time now and then and has virtually retired. Bapty do have all the original parts to the screen used guns knocking around all over the place, but finding them is another thing. They even have the original base gun, but it seems they used the wrong one when putting this all back together. It will still be in the inventory as Mausers are still good hire guns and that’s how Bapty earn their keep. The IJ Webley is 100% though.
The problem with resourcing iconic weapons in inventory’s is twofold. These pieces need to earn their keep and are reused in movies and tv programmes over and over. Some of the SW weapons have been reused in massive blockbusters over the years and some were very famous before SW. The sterling’s were used by George Lazenby in OHMSS and others were used by Connery. Knives used in Octopussy are being used in Kings Man, and ad infinitum. They also get modified and stripped and parts swapped around to suit the current production being worked on, with little thought given to the iconic status of the weapon or add on.
And then you have time. Memories fade, records don’t match memory and on set fixes mean that continuity pictures and show and tell pre production stills, although are accurate, may not match the item as it is eventually filmed. Then when you go back to actively find all the original parts, although you think you’ve got it right, you may not have. I think that is what has happened here. I can’t speak for Pawn Stars side of the debacle, but from Tony’s side, I doubt he is deliberately setting out to deceive.
The problem with resourcing iconic weapons in inventory’s is twofold. These pieces need to earn their keep and are reused in movies and tv programmes over and over. Some of the SW weapons have been reused in massive blockbusters over the years and some were very famous before SW. The sterling’s were used by George Lazenby in OHMSS and others were used by Connery. Knives used in Octopussy are being used in Kings Man, and ad infinitum. They also get modified and stripped and parts swapped around to suit the current production being worked on, with little thought given to the iconic status of the weapon or add on.
And then you have time. Memories fade, records don’t match memory and on set fixes mean that continuity pictures and show and tell pre production stills, although are accurate, may not match the item as it is eventually filmed. Then when you go back to actively find all the original parts, although you think you’ve got it right, you may not have. I think that is what has happened here. I can’t speak for Pawn Stars side of the debacle, but from Tony’s side, I doubt he is deliberately setting out to deceive.
kpax
Sr Member
They may not be setting out to deliberately deceive and no doubt others "found it" and gave it to Tony as the real deal. I'm sure he is not looking very close himself and taking the word of others.
But... he did say the marking matched the continuity pics,,, but it doesn't really. If you actually look.
As I said above, IF the SN matches the original, it is made to deliberately deceive. It is not the original upper from NR and SW evidenced by the missing weld lump. Can't have two real uppers with the same SN...
Oxford
Active Member
If the serial number does match the original, then it will be the same base gun without any doubt. For a start, that pistol is still in the inventory, so no reason to deceive. Second, it is illegal to change the serial number on any firearm within the UK, and Bapty are strictly controlled and audited in this regard due to the nature of their business. If a serial number had been removed and a different one added, then they would have a serious time on their hands trying to explain why a firearm was suddenly missing. We would be talking jail time and a massive fine and/or closure of the business. So that is certainly never going to happen.
But do the numbers actually match? I think most of this theatrical Porn Stars performance, is exactly that. Theatre made for an undemanding audience. On the facts side, the ANH Mauser and accessories to a greater or lesser extent, are certainly still in Bapty’s inventory. But a more thorough investigation into the actual parts on the gun at the time of filming needs to be done to realise the prop as it was back then in its entirety. So on the plus side, only good can come out of this in the end.
But do the numbers actually match? I think most of this theatrical Porn Stars performance, is exactly that. Theatre made for an undemanding audience. On the facts side, the ANH Mauser and accessories to a greater or lesser extent, are certainly still in Bapty’s inventory. But a more thorough investigation into the actual parts on the gun at the time of filming needs to be done to realise the prop as it was back then in its entirety. So on the plus side, only good can come out of this in the end.
Keep in mind that the serial numbers could match without this necessarily being the Hero blaster's base gun; the front digits of a Mauser are lost when the bullbarrel is added, so while unlikely it would be possible that only the last four digits could be a match, if the ones that were lost were not the same.
As for the lump, I guess it's possible it could have been filed down at some point if the damage to the upper receiver wasn't that bad; but really I don't think it's the same base Mauser. Possibly a backup of Bapty's that they thought was the Hero prop's at best, but a fake at the worst.
As for the lump, I guess it's possible it could have been filed down at some point if the damage to the upper receiver wasn't that bad; but really I don't think it's the same base Mauser. Possibly a backup of Bapty's that they thought was the Hero prop's at best, but a fake at the worst.
kpax
Sr Member
I see your reasoning but having 2 old Mausers with the same last 4 SNs..? Unicorn. Also the stamping would look different overall for damage and placement etc -but we have not seen it.
will have to wait and see more
Oh yes I agree; unlikely, but not impossible. But my best guess would be that the numbers don't match but they just fudged over that for television purposes, especially since some people who have been privileged enough to see high-res photos of the 'Pawn Blaster' have said the numbers aren't a match.
And here is a good comparison images of Carson's Lump:
Kpax should also have a good photo of his accurized MGC where he added it as well; hopefully when the next run of accurate steel Mausers are machined and available I'll have Scott add the lump with a bit of weld on commission
And here is a good comparison images of Carson's Lump:
Kpax should also have a good photo of his accurized MGC where he added it as well; hopefully when the next run of accurate steel Mausers are machined and available I'll have Scott add the lump with a bit of weld on commission
kpax
Sr Member
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kpax
Sr Member
But for Rick/PawnStars to say the numbers match on TV kind of supports a provenance. Rick usually is a stickler for such things and is observant as is their staff no doubt. This would be an obvious first check.
The truth will out no doubt...
kpax
Sr Member
Bapty knew from 1977 that SWs props would be worth more than a crappy Mauser. That lump was there to weld a crack in the upper IMO. To file it off would make it in operable and destroy the value of the prop history.
Lots of problems here.
So this thread blew up and everyone and their brother tagged me in Facebook about it.
I'm sure lonepigeon has seen the same photos I have, and as they're not mine I cannot and will not share them.
However, I can tell you 100 percent that the serial numbers do NOT match. Nothing matches on the upper, lower, flash hider, or mount....
Except
The scope and MAYBE top scope mount ring caps. Those I just don't have enough evidence to be sure but 90-95 percent match.
The scope however matches every single detail. It would be the most involved fake scope ever or it's the real deal. The serial on the scope even looks to match. (yes there's a visible serial). Which is odd since the rest has no effort involved... Which lends credence to it being assembled from parts at bapty and they got lucky finding the real scope. Too bad whoever fabricated or assembled it didn't know what they were looking for or doing.
The rest if actual parts from bapty as they could be, are SIMILAR, and even show similar but different machine marks, but are NOT correct at all.
So at best you have an original bapty fabricated piece... With the original Han Solo scope.
I want that scope real bad... But I know that'll never happen. I wouldn't say it's worth much... Maybe a bit more than any other hensoldt since it can't be proven. The rest is no more valuable than any of us getting a Mauser and having it made.
I'm sure lonepigeon has seen the same photos I have, and as they're not mine I cannot and will not share them.
However, I can tell you 100 percent that the serial numbers do NOT match. Nothing matches on the upper, lower, flash hider, or mount....
Except
The scope and MAYBE top scope mount ring caps. Those I just don't have enough evidence to be sure but 90-95 percent match.
The scope however matches every single detail. It would be the most involved fake scope ever or it's the real deal. The serial on the scope even looks to match. (yes there's a visible serial). Which is odd since the rest has no effort involved... Which lends credence to it being assembled from parts at bapty and they got lucky finding the real scope. Too bad whoever fabricated or assembled it didn't know what they were looking for or doing.
The rest if actual parts from bapty as they could be, are SIMILAR, and even show similar but different machine marks, but are NOT correct at all.
So at best you have an original bapty fabricated piece... With the original Han Solo scope.
I want that scope real bad... But I know that'll never happen. I wouldn't say it's worth much... Maybe a bit more than any other hensoldt since it can't be proven. The rest is no more valuable than any of us getting a Mauser and having it made.
Thank you!
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