General Lee loses it's rebel flag

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Not to mention it was a MILITARY flag, not a political one.

THAT is my big gripe. The people incensed by it don't know their history. Otherwise they should be enraged by the U.S. flag (well an earlier version anyway). I get why people don't like it, but their anger might be better directed at an early U.S. flag. Those don't fly, so no problem there.

My dad is a U.S. Civil War collector so I always hear stuff like this from him. He gets a CW collector paper that has stuff like this in it all the time. My family fought for OH in the CW, but I think they have the right to preserve their ancestry.
 
THAT is my big gripe. The people incensed by it don't know their history. Otherwise they should be enraged by the U.S. flag (well an earlier version anyway). I get why people don't like it, but their anger might be better directed at an early U.S. flag. Those don't fly, so no problem there.

My dad is a U.S. Civil War collector so I always hear stuff like this from him. He gets a CW collector paper that has stuff like this in it all the time. My family fought for OH in the CW, but I think they have the right to preserve their ancestry. Yesterday 06:43 PM

How often do people who fly CBFs in modern times say, "I'm not supporting the Confederacy itself, just the Confederate military"?

IMHO the fact that the CBF is technically the battle flag is just that, a technicality. For most of the last 150 years people have been using it as if it signified "the South" in general. Both sides have typically viewed the CBF that way since long before the time of anyone alive today.

I'm not saying the difference is meaningless. But I'm saying I think it means very little in a debate about the political correctness issues surrounding the CBF in 2012.


As for the early US flag being the wrongful one - the "United States" has changed its slave-owning ways since the 1700s, and indeed fought hard to do it. Whereas the Confederacy existed expressly for the purpose of not changing that. I think it's pretty clear which of those two groups is more directly tied to supporting human rights abuses.
 
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As for the early US flag being the wrongful one - the "United States" has changed its slave-owning ways since the 1700s, and indeed fought hard to do it. Whereas the Confederacy existed expressly for the purpose of not changing that. I think it's pretty clear which of those two groups is more directly tied to supporting human rights abuses.

Now, see? That's the sort of thing they teach in government schools. It's a tragedy, really. The Confederacy didn't exist to 'not change' slavery. In fact, if all they wanted was to not change slavery, then they could've done so easily -- slavery was protected by the U.S. Constitution and the only way to amend that would have taken 36 states to outvote the 13 Confederate ones. There weren't 49 states for a long time after the Civil War. And, of course, some union states, like Maryland, were slave states.
The bizarre truth is that the Confederacy was vastly more supportive of human rights than the union. The Confederate Attorney General was Jewish, nearly a hundred years before the United States had a Jewish cabinet member. The Confederacy had full-blooded native americans in positions higher than the united states had for about a century. The union had black regiments, like the one in the movie Glory. The south had integrated regiments.
A real champion of human rights, Lincoln decided to suspend the constitution and just have anyone who wanted to run against his re-election bid put in jail without being charged with any crimes until after the election.

In fact, the very nature of the Civil war belies the idea that the union was for human rights. The southern states acted like, y'know, a democracy, and voted to pull out. The northern states decided to settle the issue by force instead.

History may be written by the winners, but that doesn't mean it's true.
 
I agree with it being pointless to remove the flag from these toys. I understand if it is different in the US, as the flag originates from your history, but here in Sweden the flag is used by racists, like the thors hammer. A person doent have to be a racist if wearing them of course, but they have these connotations here. Many schools have rules against them.
 
Thor's hammer is used as a racist symbol? **** man... those using it as such should be pounded to a pulp for stupidity and ignorance and stupidity.
 
In fact, the very nature of the Civil war belies the idea that the union was for human rights. The southern states acted like, y'know, a democracy, and voted to pull out. The northern states decided to settle the issue by force instead.

History may be written by the winners, but that doesn't mean it's true.

Look, I don't want to get into the causes of war, as I think much of this thread is already skirting on "political" talk.

But in point of fact, it was actually the Confederates who initiated military hostilities.

And suffice to say, slavery WAS a major cause of the civil war. Period.
 
All right all right, in the interest of preventing the start of another civil war over the civil war... I officially put this thread someplace good.......


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Wandering off in all different directions that just aren't going to go well.
 
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