First time mask making:

[askernas]

Hello =)

I have a thread in Replica Costumes where I am putting a whole build thread on replicating the costume from Saurfang from World of Warcraft.

One of the (many) things in this (insane) venture is that I need to make a mask. A silicone mask, I've decided on, as I would like this to follow some underlying structure for the mouth opening and things like that.

I have *never* sculpted before.
I have *never* molded anything at all before.
I have *never* casted anything before.

I do, however have watched about everything I can get my hands on, both on normal Youtube, but I was also enlisted at Stan Winstons online membership for a few years and have learned lots of things in theory.

This is the sculpt as it looks like now:

The mouth will be filled with clay to not be as deep, and the teeth are (obviously) sculpted separately.

I have bought Smooth-On Rebound 25 and thickener that I was planning on making the mold from.
I have bought Smooth-On Dragon Skin 10 that will be used for the actual silicone mask.

However, I have had suggested that it would not be the best idea to make both the mold and cast in Silicone. I have spreay release, obviously, but I suspect there is still a chance the silicone will bind to the other silicone.

What would you suggest I'll cast the sculpture in?
I have a vacuum pot that I bought, so I can get rid of bubbles in whatever material I cast the mask in.

I have no intentions of making a lot of casts from this, just enough so I have a few to allow for errors in the making and the learning curve, and also allow for errors and issues when I mount and paint the mask.

I have had a suggestion to put clay in the finished mold to cast a solid core. My initial thought was to do a brush on cast, but if I can make a good core and find the proper angle to pour the cast from to not trap any air, I'm game for that.

So, since this is just for the mask making, I an posting this here:
I would warmly welcome any suggestions on how to mold and cast (and eventually paint) this to get the best results possible. I am a novice with only theoretical knowledge.

Thanks

 

[JPH]

This guy?
Sculpt looks really great for a first time.
Curl up the lower lip edges. Leave dents in the gums for teef. Holes in the gums would be even better, so you can just anchor the teeth.

Rebound 25 and Thivex is a great combo. Make sure you are not mixing platinum vs tin silicone/rubbers. Spray on release and or gently brush on. Make sure clay wont react with Rebound.

Always brush on the first layer of Rebound 25 WITHOUT Thivex, or you will get bubbles. So, start when you have a couple of hours to do it. Having lillte pieces of foam to make later layers of Rebound Lumpy.

Plaster of paris or Free Form air to make a hard outer shell to hold rebound in place.

 

[askernas]

This guy?
Sculpt looks really great for a first time.
Curl up the lower lip edges. Leave dents in the gums for teef. Holes in the gums would be even better, so you can just anchor the teeth.

Rebound 25 and Thivex is a great combo. Make sure you are not mixing platinum vs tin silicone/rubbers. Spray on release and or gently brush on. Make sure clay wont react with Rebound.

Always brush on the first layer of Rebound 25 WITHOUT Thivex, or you will get bubbles. So, start when you have a couple of hours to do it. Having lillte pieces of foam to make later layers of Rebound Lumpy.

Plaster of paris or Free Form air to make a hard outer shell to hold rebound in place.

That guy indeed.
Thanks, I feel like I've managed to come to a decent sculpt at least.

He might need a few more wrinkles and things like that, but I will revisit him after the weekend again.
The issue is: if I cast him in Rebound 25, can I still cast him in Dragon Skin 10, with plenty of release agent, or will I create problems for myself casting silicone from a silicone mold?

I could make the mold out of Hydrocal or something like that, I just don't know if it will pick up the details of the sculpt and won't have any bubbles.

Thanks for the input, greatly appreciated!

 

[JPH]

Oh, and Thivex is like ONE DROP per 1-2 oz of Rebound25. Better to put on thin layers of Rebound 25 when you star ( Without Thivex). After 2 layers, add the Thivex, and it will applesauce consistency in 10 min.

Mix well, scraping sides, including the Rebound individual parts, before starting.

 

[JPH]

That guy indeed.
Thanks, I feel like I've managed to come to a decent sculpt at least.

He might need a few more wrinkles and things like that, but I will revisit him after the weekend again.
The issue is: if I cast him in Rebound 25, can I still cast him in Dragon Skin 10, with plenty of release agent, or will I create problems for myself casting silicone from a silicone mold?

I could make the mold out of Hydrocal or something like that, I just don't know if it will pick up the details of the sculpt and won't have any bubbles.

Thanks for the input, greatly appreciated!

Thin first layers of Rebound will pick up subtle details like skin texture.

I use FreeForm Air to make hard outer shells. It has multiple uses.

When you do the mouth, do not just fill it with Rebound.

I do not own stock in Smooth-on

 

[askernas]

I do not own stock in Smooth-on

 

[JPH]

Any progress?

 

[askernas]

Any progress?

Not yet.
Been away on a business trip and Saurfang has been sitting in a corner covered with saran wrap to not gather dust..

I hope to get back to him this week.

There are some more wrinkles I want to fix and work on to get him to look a little more ... weathered as a character.

My Rebound 25 and Dragon Skin 10 has arrived, along with mold release and plaster bandages, so that's here at least.

Would you think there is an issue casting a mask in Dragon Skin 10 in a Rebound 25 mold as long as I apply mold release?

 

[JPH]

Not yet.
Been away on a business trip and Saurfang has been sitting in a corner covered with saran wrap to not gather dust..

I hope to get back to him this week.

There are some more wrinkles I want to fix and work on to get him to look a little more ... weathered as a character.

My Rebound 25 and Dragon Skin 10 has arrived, along with mold release and plaster bandages, so that's here at least.

Would you think there is an issue casting a mask in Dragon Skin 10 in a Rebound 25 mold as long as I apply mold release?

 

[askernas]

I know the silicones are both platinum.

I have sculpted in Monster Clay, which is sulphur free, so I know they are all compatible.

I just need to know if I am making life difficult for me when trying to cast a silicone mask in a silicone mold, when silicone binds well with silicone.. or if I should create my mold out of something else, like Hydrocal for instance.

Cheers,
Micke

 

[JPH]

I know the silicones are both platinum.

I have sculpted in Monster Clay, which is sulphur free, so I know they are all compatible.

I just need to know if I am making life difficult for me when trying to cast a silicone mask in a silicone mold, when silicone binds well with silicone.. or if I should create my mold out of something else, like Hydrocal for instance.

Cheers,
Micke

The Rebound and dragon skin should not be a problem, the clay and the Rebound might. Do a test with a small amount of Rebound and the clay.

 

[askernas]

The Rebound and dragon skin should not be a problem, the clay and the Rebound might. Do a test with a small amount of Rebound and the clay.

That will make molding the teeth I made a perfect first test to make sure it works as planned! Thanks!

 

[udog]

What would you suggest I'll cast the sculpture in?

A rigid material. Acrylic resyn+fiberglass (or special fiber for this), Epoxy+fiberglass (might need some post curing), Polyester+fiberglass (will need postcurimg for sure, it will inhibit silicone if not) and on the cheaper side stone plaster which is cheaper and no nocious fumes (as acrylic resin too) but will probably wear out before the above mentioned.
The idea with a rigid mold for silicone is avoiding the use of release agents, which leave residue and must to be cleaned off in order of a proper adhesion when painting. Besides it´s more stable than a flexible material, it won´t move from the mother mold/jacket.

I have had a suggestion to put clay in the finished mold to cast a solid core.

The ideal is to sculpt over a lifecast of the actor or over a generic mannequin for sculpting silicone masks. That is what ensures a snuggy fit, everything in place and good movement (thickness and shapes count on that too). Making a core once the mold is done is what you can do if you didn´t go for the route I mentioned above, the results will be random. Take in account you will be eyeballing it.

Nice sculpt for a starter, besides some good comments above, you can try refining those skin grooves in order to make them less "edgy" and more natural, such as the ones above the superior lip. You can try with talc and a brush, sculpting over film plastic or using IPA alcohol to work on shapes for example.

 

[askernas]

A rigid material. Acrylic resyn+fiberglass (or special fiber for this), Epoxy+fiberglass (might need some post curing), Polyester+fiberglass (will need postcurimg for sure, it will inhibit silicone if not) and on the cheaper side stone plaster which is cheaper and no nocious fumes (as acrylic resin too) but will probably wear out before the above mentioned.
The idea with a rigid mold for silicone is avoiding the use of release agents, which leave residue and must to be cleaned off in order of a proper adhesion when painting. Besides it´s more stable than a flexible material, it won´t move from the mother mold/jacket.

The ideal is to sculpt over a lifecast of the actor or over a generic mannequin for sculpting silicone masks. That is what ensures a snuggy fit, everything in place and good movement (thickness and shapes count on that too). Making a core once the mold is done is what you can do if you didn´t go for the route I mentioned above, the results will be random. Take in account you will be eyeballing it.

Nice sculpt for a starter, besides some good comments above, you can try refining those skin grooves in order to make them less "edgy" and more natural, such as the ones above the superior lip. You can try with talc and a brush, sculpting over film plastic or using IPA alcohol to work on shapes for example.

Yeah, I have some lines in teh face I feel I need to redo, and also add some others.
I recently found the sculpting through thicker plastic method and tha really helps in making the lines more softer. Gasoline (lighter fluid) also helps a lot to clean out the edges.

I feel I'm not finished with the sculpt yet. I want to refine it further, but it is a start at least. I just need the most caluable commodity of all: time.

I have quite a lot of clear epoxy resin in the workshop waiting for a use. It might be a good option to use that for the detail layer and then back it up with plaster to build up some mass.. and not have the issue with release spray then.

Funny.. I might use my epoxy resin to mold my mask so I can cast it in silicone, and I would use silicone to mold the teeth for the mask so I can cast them in epoxy resin.... =p

 

[udog]

I'll cast the sculpture in

Sorry if I misunderstood, when I said with a rigid material I was talking about molding the sculpt, not casting it. But I think you got it anyway.

Gasoline (lighter fluid)

Can do as with other solvents, I´d say IPA is less aggressive. Try wotking the lines with talc and a small chip brush, it´s an interesting technique.

I have quite a lot of clear epoxy resin in the workshop waiting for a use. It might be a good option to use that for the detail layer and then back it up with plaster to build up some mass.. and not have the issue with release spray then.

First, you will have to prepare an epoxy gelcoat with that resin (or buy a prepared one). This is usually done with cab-o-sil (very nocious, respirator and ventilated work areas) and fillers (not a must but better). The resin by itself is no good for the first detail copy layer. Gel coats are thixotroped resins that wont hang down/sag when brushing in order to create a minimum thickness first layer. Make sure your resin is good for laminating, some are designed for pours (lower viscosities, longer working time). Not that it can´t be used, but better getting a laminating one for the purpose.
Using the resin for the first layer and then backing in plaster is feasible but it´s a half way method that I´d only use if you have no other option. The resin could chip off from plaster. It can work but it´s risky. If you make it with resin, I´d fiberglass it. And if you want to go on the cheaper side, stone plaster is the route. Normal plaster (good quality) would do too, but as it´s softer it will wear out soon, if not get damaged after the first pull.

Funny.. I might use my epoxy resin to mold my mask so I can cast it in silicone, and I would use silicone to mold the teeth for the mask so I can cast them in epoxy resin.... =p

That would be a good route. Rigid mold for flexible casting, flexible mold for rigid casting.
This said in general, every job has it´s route and there are many ways of dressing a cat.

 

[udog]

sculpting through thicker plastic method

Try thin plastic film wrap. Its commonly used for these kind of things.

 

[askernas]

Try thin plastic film wrap. Its commonly used for these kind of things.

Oh, I used it extensively already. But I saw a Stan Winston video where they had slightly thicker plastic bags, such as small component bags and folded them over to create more diffusion and less distinction on the cuts.

I will work a little more on variety in the wrinkle distinction Next time I’m carving…

 

[askernas]

Some progress on the sculpt:
I've gone over the skin with a few more passes to create skin texture, curled up the lower lip and filled in the bulk of the mouth for the upcoming molding of the sculpt.

As I've mentioned, this will only be a "skin thick" mask. The undermask will hold the gums and teeth, but I am getting to a point where I am almost afraid to tinker more with the sculpt before making the mold.

Anything you guys think I should change on this one before I cover it in silicone?

 

[JPH]

Looks really good. I liked how you made the cheekbones more symetrical.

Will you wear a headress or something to cover the sides of the head or are you just going to have a thick wig?

A side shot to see the jawline and masseter muscle would help.

Great looking sculpt!

 

[askernas]

Looks really good. I liked how you made the cheekbones more symetrical.

Will you wear a headress or something to cover the sides of the head or are you just going to have a thick wig?

A side shot to see the jawline and masseter muscle would help.

Great looking sculpt!

Thank you kindly.
It is my first time sculpting, so with that in mind, I'm not half unhappy with it at least =)

Since the character has braids on front of his ears and behind his ears, my plan was to use a wig and attach the braids to an elastic on the inside to make sure they are always at the same spot.