Fantastic Four

Re: Fantastic Four Reboot

I don't care if they cast Johnny with a black actor, but why is Fox talking to Allison Williams for Susan and then Michael Jordan (still can't get over his name) for Johnny? Fox could actually win out on the clueless wars against WB's Justice League.
 
Re: Fantastic Four Reboot

Yeah, I like Michael Jordan, and I think he has a lot of the right qualities to play Johnny Storm, but I am, it turns out, jammed up by the idea that the Storm siblings are crucial, and while I know that families come in all kinds of combinations, I think black brother-white sister will not stop being distracting for me. I would be so much more into casting a black actor as Sue Storm as well.

But whatever...
 
Re: Fantastic Four Reboot

The guy says he welcomes a bit of color to the marvel first family but has he forgotten about Michael Clarke Duncan as Kingpin, Idris Elba as Heimdall and that priest in ghost rider, Falcon in the new cap and most importantly, Sam Jackson as Nick Fury?
 
Re: Fantastic Four Reboot

Eh, smacks of tokenism to me. The Heimdall thing was similar, in that respect. It didn't really MATTER, it's just sort of like "Uh...why'd you bother?"

I think it'd make more sense to just create new superheroes who happen to be black (as opposed to "black" superheroes like Black Panther and Black Lightning). The DC universe's second Mr. Terrific is a good example. He's a hero who happens to be black, rather than a hero whose blackness is somehow highlighted or central to the character.

I think the film will probably still rise or fall on the writing, but this just looks like pandering to demographics. It's a change that's designed to draw controversy and press, and that, in turn, allows all manner of people to benefit. Fox benefits because it looks "progressive" and "daring" for doing this. Writers like whoever wrote the "five reasons" article get to look enlightened while scolding their reactionary readers. Fans get to position themselves the same way.

To my way of thinking, consciously changing white characters into black characters for the sake of "diversity" is just a modernized version of including "specifically" black characters. It's all just tokenism. If you really want to impress me, do characters like Mr. Terrific. Make a compelling character who happens to be black, rather than whose blackness is somehow highlighted or central to the character -- and yes, changing a white character to some other ethnicity is "highlighting" the character's race. Can it still work? Of course it can. It's silly to say otherwise. Sam Jackson's Nick Fury is a great example. But it's still tokenism.
 
Re: Fantastic Four Reboot

If human torch is going to be black, thats great! But, make his sister black too! Do NOT make the characters unrelated! They must be brother and sister! Making him black just for the sake of it is idiotic! I welcome it, but they have to do so with the pair. Johnny and Sue are brother and sister, end of story! Not making them brother and sister would be like changing Superman into nothing more than an X-Man with super human powers.

Don't screw with the back story! Cast them both with black actors, but don't change who the characters are just to HAVE a black actor in the role. I actually think that having them as black characters would be awesome! We simply do not have enough positive black role models in the superhero community. At the time when Batman and Robin was ni the works and one of the Weyan brothers was in consideration as Robin, I thought it was a cool idea. I didn;t think 'that actor' was right for the role, but having a black actor play Robin was a fun idea to me.
 
Re: Fantastic Four Reboot

Honestly, this could just be a conscious attempt to generate controversy and news coverage for a property that most people will think of as a ho-hum thing. It elevates an otherwise uninteresting franchise into the public eye.
 
Re: Fantastic Four Reboot

The guy says he welcomes a bit of color to the marvel first family but has he forgotten about Michael Clarke Duncan as Kingpin, Idris Elba as Heimdall and that priest in ghost rider, Falcon in the new cap and most importantly, Sam Jackson as Nick Fury?

The difference with Fury is that he was first re-done in the comics as SLJ. Then the current movies were based on the comics where Fury was already essentially SLJ. So it's not casting a black actor in a white hero's spot as the other things people have mentioned. In reading the article, the rest you mention are pretty much all villains, which they point out, and that doing with a hero instead will be a first/major/whatever.
 
Re: Fantastic Four Reboot

Heimdall isn't a villain. And honestly, casting Idris Elba -- whom I love as an actor, by the way -- in that role was....weird. Just an odd choice. It stood out and sort of took me out of things for a moment. It didn't really MATTER, of course, but it was like "Uh...why'd you do that?" It'd be the same if they gave a white guy as Heimdall all pink armor or something. It's just an odd stylistic choice. Heimdall, though, is also a much smaller character than Johnny Storm in a FF movie.

But yeah, it's a big deal when you change "default" white characters to another race/ethnicity.


Ask yourselves this. If we accept the premise posed in the article that most white characters are "default" rather than specifically white or required to be white by circumstances (such as Doctor Doom), how would you folks feel if:

- Cyclops was Asian-American

- Doctor Strange was hispanic.

- The genders of all the characters in Spider-Man were reversed. (Spider-Man becomes Spider-Woman, Uncle Ben's role is actually played by Aunt May and vice versa, Mary Jane is a redheaded guy named Matt James Watson, and goes by "MJ", etc.)


All of these things would be jarring and would seem like intentional tokenism. Subverting an established "norm" for the sake of saying "look! We subverted a norm!" To me, that's every bit as patronizing as creating a specifically ethnic character and calling him [Ethnic]-Man or something. Anything you'd want to do with a subversive gender/race reversed character you can do with a new character who happens to be a particular gender/race (but isn't "gendered" or "racialized"). The only thing you can't do is be inflammatory and subversive.
 
Re: Fantastic Four Reboot

I wouldn't call it tokenism at all. Josh Trank has worked with him before so he knows what he is capable of doing and could just be comfortable casting somebody he has a good working relationship with.
 
Re: Fantastic Four Reboot

I wouldn't call it tokenism at all. Josh Trank has worked with him before so he knows what he is capable of doing and could just be comfortable casting somebody he has a good working relationship with.
I disagree.

The core of FF is the family aspect - while they could find some logic to still make Johnny and Sue have the brother/sister relationship it would seem much more forced.

This change in ethnicity seems forced to me - and feels like tokenism. It's really seems like change for change sake and just doesn't sit right with me. Frankly, casting Donald Glover as Spider-Man makes for sense than this.
 
Re: Fantastic Four Reboot

This is just stupid . A studios way of showing they are colorblind which couldnt be farther from the truth. Someone at Marvel once told me "we had Bruce Willis to play Nick Fury - but luckily we got Sam Jackson" and I was thinking - luckily? You'll notice Marvel is quick to pass out the lower heroes to have a skin change but Spidey-Iron Man, Wolverine all stay as white as can be - C'mon Marvel - you want to show us how much it doesnt matter - Lets get a major character --
 
Re: Fantastic Four Reboot

The guy says he welcomes a bit of color to the marvel first family but has he forgotten about Michael Clarke Duncan as Kingpin, Idris Elba as Heimdall and that priest in ghost rider, Falcon in the new cap and most importantly, Sam Jackson as Nick Fury?

Just to be pedantic, Falcon's black in the comics, too.
 
Re: Fantastic Four Reboot

I know everyone is wanting something done from the Lee/Kirby era but I would rather have something more in the vain of the John Byrne run of FF. That was some really great stuff!!
 
Re: Fantastic Four Reboot

You all seem to misunderstand what I meant. The writer said adding a bit of color to the marvel universe and I was merely citing examples of black characters already present. I also forgot Halle Berry as Storm and Don Cheadle as Rhodey.

I have to agree that it's purely tokenism. There's no reason to make Johnny Storm black other than to stir things up. The only reason anyone had problems with this is that these are established characters and have been around for decades. No one wants to see something changed so dramatically just to shake things up. I'd feel the same way if they decided to make Rhodey some white dude for the Iron Man films. If they had done that I would of been pissed. If they're so hell bent on having a black guy in the film, why not have luke Cage and Ironfist show up.

Also I'm fully aware that they redesigned fury with SLJ's likeness for the ultimate comic line. Also that falcon was black.
 
Re: Fantastic Four Reboot

I know everyone is wanting something done from the Lee/Kirby era but I would rather have something more in the vain of the John Byrne run of FF. That was some really great stuff!!
You're preaching to the choir. Although, I do think Byrne paid heavy respect to the early Lee/Kirby days... but, no She-Hulk, please!
 
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