Chrisisall
Sr Member
We're just about the same age, and I feel the lines of the refit are okay, but yeah, too much on the hull. Which is why I like the look of the refit better in later films, when they made the hull a bit simpler.
Enterprise Refit Question To Original Series Fans That Ain't Kids
- Thread starter Chrisisall
- Start date
Obsession
New Member
The motion picture version of the Enterprise is cool, and I must admit when I saw it on the big screen watching the movie for the first time, that I did feel that it was, to borrow words from a friend," nifty bitchin".
And for a time, it did have my first affection. But as the years went by, and I saw more models being made by people, and saw the pictures in the Smithsonian, the aging of the model and the botched restorations, I have come to believe, that most people don't really know what the original Enterprise truly looked like. They know the 18 inch AMT model kit and the Fran's Joseph blueprints, both of which were extremely inaccurate. Everybody always portrays the original Enterprise as being something old, and from the past. I can't wait until the new Polar Lights model comes out this October. I intend to build the Enterprise the way no one has really seen her before, the way she looked when the series began. The correct color and finish and no ****ing bow light. And while I know pictures from this period exist, most are small or taken from a distance, grainy, scratched, washed out and color shifted. Too bad they didn't have have digital cameras in 1966.
And for a time, it did have my first affection. But as the years went by, and I saw more models being made by people, and saw the pictures in the Smithsonian, the aging of the model and the botched restorations, I have come to believe, that most people don't really know what the original Enterprise truly looked like. They know the 18 inch AMT model kit and the Fran's Joseph blueprints, both of which were extremely inaccurate. Everybody always portrays the original Enterprise as being something old, and from the past. I can't wait until the new Polar Lights model comes out this October. I intend to build the Enterprise the way no one has really seen her before, the way she looked when the series began. The correct color and finish and no ****ing bow light. And while I know pictures from this period exist, most are small or taken from a distance, grainy, scratched, washed out and color shifted. Too bad they didn't have have digital cameras in 1966.
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Chrisisall
Sr Member
Just a pic from my work table...
For me, the refit looks 1000 times better than the original.
Loved the look of the refit the moment I saw it was was quite
sad when they destroyed it in the search for spock.
Then they brought it back for another couple movies but it wasn't
the same. (Probably due to bad special effects in the later films).:facepalm
Loved the look of the refit the moment I saw it was was quite
sad when they destroyed it in the search for spock.
Then they brought it back for another couple movies but it wasn't
the same. (Probably due to bad special effects in the later films).:facepalm
Chrisisall
Sr Member
It was repainted. I personally liked it best in Trek III. But I thought it looked great in VI as well.:thumbsup
Jsimon999
Well-Known Member
I was 12 at the time and although I noticed the difference, it wasn't something I thought about until about 10 years ago when I started to think about Star Trek more critically. The thing that bugs me is why did anything have to be changed at all????? Why do a movie about a show that people have just come to recognize in very certain and very distinct ways....then change the whole dame thing...from models to sets to uniforms, etc, etc.
Then 10 years ago it dawned on me. Because they could sell new model kits, employ new art designers, costume designers, set decorators, etc, etc. Add to that, the new crew making the movies would not want to merely copy what had already been done; they would want to put their own stamp and put their own mark on it to establish their own reputations.
Well, I enjoy the Star Trek movies overall but I feel they did not bring to the screen the show I loved for the look and feel of it too. I accepted them at the time but now see what happened and perhaps some whys. Robert Wise and Nic Meyers, as talented as they are, ruined ST TOS for the most part for me. Wise for trying to make it look like Space: 2001 and Meyers for all his Shakespeare and maritime additions.
Ok. My rant is done.
:lol
Jon
Then 10 years ago it dawned on me. Because they could sell new model kits, employ new art designers, costume designers, set decorators, etc, etc. Add to that, the new crew making the movies would not want to merely copy what had already been done; they would want to put their own stamp and put their own mark on it to establish their own reputations.
Well, I enjoy the Star Trek movies overall but I feel they did not bring to the screen the show I loved for the look and feel of it too. I accepted them at the time but now see what happened and perhaps some whys. Robert Wise and Nic Meyers, as talented as they are, ruined ST TOS for the most part for me. Wise for trying to make it look like Space: 2001 and Meyers for all his Shakespeare and maritime additions.
Ok. My rant is done.
:lol
Jon
Garbaron
New Member
I did not see the movie until 1980 + ... Germany wasn't, and sometimes isn't, as quick with movie and TV series releases you know. And it was even worse back then until you could get hold of a movie on VHS.
I was seven years old and the drydock scene blew my mind! That scene looked so real, the ship so immensely BIG and for the first time I thought this thing could really exist ... someday. I just LOVED the new design! This version had some awesome angels to look at and I especially liked that the warp engines looked completely different and did away with the glowing spinning tips. These new engines did not show anything moving but still could do all the TOS engines could do, and the movie made it perfectly clear these things where immensely powerful, could even rip space apart and create a wormhole! The whole lighting with her flood lights, the glowing dish .. RADICAL man (Kevin Fly, Tron: Legacy)!!! The first moment I saw the Refit I loved her and she is my favorite Enterprise of them all. EVER!! (TOS E comes to a close second, after all that's the ship that introduced me to Trek and started it all).
The whole V'Ger thing scared the hell out of me. That dark looming cloud, coming to live with flashes and weird sound effects (the special V'Ger sound they made on that exotic instrument ... eerie!), that shot these power full sparking globes that just zapped things, even entire space stations out of existence.
I did not like that Kirk behaves like an a***ole for the majority of the movie, especially against Decker. But then again, I did not like Decker either... a wanabe Kirk? Go to hell Decker! Same goes for Spock up until after the mind meld he behaved like a robot. Ilia was scary too.
What stuck mostly to my mind was the awesome FX. I never thought of the movie as boring and always enjoyed to watch it. Only think my kid brain always got fooled with ... when they zoom on to the rotating space office complex and focuses somewhat on that rectangular opening, I always expected the Enterprise to show up ... it never did ... and oddly enough Scott takes Kirk in to the opposite direction. I really though the ship should be inside the office complex ... like that mushroom space station later did.
I was seven years old and the drydock scene blew my mind! That scene looked so real, the ship so immensely BIG and for the first time I thought this thing could really exist ... someday. I just LOVED the new design! This version had some awesome angels to look at and I especially liked that the warp engines looked completely different and did away with the glowing spinning tips. These new engines did not show anything moving but still could do all the TOS engines could do, and the movie made it perfectly clear these things where immensely powerful, could even rip space apart and create a wormhole! The whole lighting with her flood lights, the glowing dish .. RADICAL man (Kevin Fly, Tron: Legacy)!!! The first moment I saw the Refit I loved her and she is my favorite Enterprise of them all. EVER!! (TOS E comes to a close second, after all that's the ship that introduced me to Trek and started it all).
The whole V'Ger thing scared the hell out of me. That dark looming cloud, coming to live with flashes and weird sound effects (the special V'Ger sound they made on that exotic instrument ... eerie!), that shot these power full sparking globes that just zapped things, even entire space stations out of existence.
I did not like that Kirk behaves like an a***ole for the majority of the movie, especially against Decker. But then again, I did not like Decker either... a wanabe Kirk? Go to hell Decker! Same goes for Spock up until after the mind meld he behaved like a robot. Ilia was scary too.
What stuck mostly to my mind was the awesome FX. I never thought of the movie as boring and always enjoyed to watch it. Only think my kid brain always got fooled with ... when they zoom on to the rotating space office complex and focuses somewhat on that rectangular opening, I always expected the Enterprise to show up ... it never did ... and oddly enough Scott takes Kirk in to the opposite direction. I really though the ship should be inside the office complex ... like that mushroom space station later did.
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JMChladek
Sr Member
Based on what I have researched, Ken Ralston didn't necessarily hate the Enterprise refit's design itself, but rather he hated the studio model inherited from TMP. The thing was very heavy and the gloss paintjob was causing all sorts of light reflections when they tried to shoot it bluescreen (because Trumbull shot it black screen). Then the wiring for the lights was overly complex (sometimes it would only work due to short circuits), as was the external inky light setup to get all the spotlights to work properly (lot of meticulous preparation needed setting up all those little lights for a film pass). From a practicality standpoint, I can see why he wasn't crazy about the design as ILM had a different philosophy to effects photography compared to Trumbull's group (with Trumbull's experience going back to 2001, which favored huge models).
In Doug Trumbull's defense, I would say his influence probably had maybe more to do with how the refit E looked on camera than anyone else. I've seen images of the model as it looked when Magicam built it for Robert Abel and associates. The paintjob was plain white and it didn't have the self illumination system yet (hence the different upper and lower saucer domes). As filmed, I think it would have looked good, but not great IMHO. The "aztec" paint panelling was a nice idea to give the thing surface detail without adding greeblie details to the model and the self illumination system as directed by Trumbull and rendered so elegantly by Andy Probert gave the model that final push to Spinal Tap "11" level.
By comparison if you look at the Reliant from TWOK, you can tell it was an ILM model. Sure it had the aztec paint and the art deco engines. But the back of the beast is greeblied all to heck on top and bottom. If that was Ken Ralston's idea of a great looking ship, while I think such touches might have worked for the refit E, I don't necessarily think it would have looked quite as good since Matt Jefferies always tended to favor clean looks from a practicality standpoint.
Captain Finney
Member
I couldn't agree more with that last post..On every level. The refit E was a cocktail that owes it's credit to a few folks..Probert, Trumbul, Jeffries, etc. She's my favorite E, although I also have an almost equal love of the original girl.
This is a little off-topic, but just to share something that's been bugging me lately; Why is it that the original 'smoothie' 1/537 model kit of the Enterprise refit has never been remastered? That scale is the PERFECT size to accomodate decent details, (including lighting, if one chooses), yet not take up an excessive amount of space. Only the first kit of this ship was a 'smoothie'...The 'textured' kits that followed are okay, but will always be sub-par if one wants to re-create the beautiful refit as she appeared on film.
This is a little off-topic, but just to share something that's been bugging me lately; Why is it that the original 'smoothie' 1/537 model kit of the Enterprise refit has never been remastered? That scale is the PERFECT size to accomodate decent details, (including lighting, if one chooses), yet not take up an excessive amount of space. Only the first kit of this ship was a 'smoothie'...The 'textured' kits that followed are okay, but will always be sub-par if one wants to re-create the beautiful refit as she appeared on film.
Chrisisall
Sr Member
I don't appreciate the inaccurate panels.
:cool
:cool
Junk Pilot
Sr Member
It shouldn't be that hard these days given the 30 odd years of technological advancement since the original kit was produced.
Chrisisall
Sr Member
Easier to grind out material than to fill it back in. Of course it could be done, but time intensive, and no doubt nearly as expensive as making all new molds.
I wasn't really all that excited about the re-fit when I saw it. Of course, I had seen the "new" Enterprise in several publications of the day before I ventured to the Movies to see it.
I know I am in the minority, but I still like the Original series design the best.
I enjoyed the sequence when Kirk is in the shuttlepod...But to me, it looked more like a cruise ship than a deep space Starship.
I prefer the more Militaryish design the original series had.
The aztecing was another thing...soon every ship had to have it!! Geez.
I know I am in the minority, but I still like the Original series design the best.
I enjoyed the sequence when Kirk is in the shuttlepod...But to me, it looked more like a cruise ship than a deep space Starship.
I prefer the more Militaryish design the original series had.
The aztecing was another thing...soon every ship had to have it!! Geez.
Mola Rob
Sr Member
I was eleven years old when I saw TMP in the theater on opening night. I had read all the Starlog and Fantastic Film articles so I had an inkling of the new design but seeing it on the big screen is a lot different than seeing a picture in a magazine. I absolutely loved the refit from the first time I saw her in dry-dock. The TOS version and the refit go back and forth as my favorite depending on my mood. Either way they're both beautiful designs.
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Zuiun
Sr Member
For years, the refitted Enterprise has been my favorite fictional space craft. Yep, it even beat out the Millennium Falcon. But only slightly. (My fantasy was to live on the Enterprise, but have the Falcon in the hangar bay for fun... a guy's gotta dream, right?)
Like others have posted, I used to draw the Enterprise on everything.
And as much of a fan of TOS as I was, I really never cared for the original Enterprise.
Funny thing is, I had a change of heart when I was actually able to hold a model of the original E in my hands, turn it around, examine it. I was able to see the subtle elegance of the design that just never made an impression on me in the series.
And I also came to realize that, while the refitted E is impressive, much of what sells it is the lighting, lens choices and camera angles. TMP "reveal" is total space ship porn. TOS never had the luxury of that level of "fetishist" devotion to filming the ship. Viewing the TOS E from some of the same movie angles gives it some of the same majesty.
I still prefer the refit, but the original E has grown on me a lot over the years.
Like others have posted, I used to draw the Enterprise on everything.
And as much of a fan of TOS as I was, I really never cared for the original Enterprise.
Funny thing is, I had a change of heart when I was actually able to hold a model of the original E in my hands, turn it around, examine it. I was able to see the subtle elegance of the design that just never made an impression on me in the series.
And I also came to realize that, while the refitted E is impressive, much of what sells it is the lighting, lens choices and camera angles. TMP "reveal" is total space ship porn. TOS never had the luxury of that level of "fetishist" devotion to filming the ship. Viewing the TOS E from some of the same movie angles gives it some of the same majesty.
I still prefer the refit, but the original E has grown on me a lot over the years.
The refit. It's one of those designs where every time I try to make an improvement on, it just doesn't go well with anything else. Like the warp engines. I thought they were bland in comparison to the original lighted nacelles from TOS. But the more I tried to make the engines looks more interesting, the less it worked. This design just works!
vaderdarth
Master Member
I loved it from the beginning. To this day, the movie Enterprise is my favorite design.
