Enterprise Refit Question To Original Series Fans That Ain't Kids

Discussion in 'General Modeling' started by Chrisisall, Apr 20, 2012.

  1. Chrisisall

    Chrisisall Sr Member

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    Back in '79, what was your reaction to the design & execution of the Enterprise Refit as opposed to the series E we grew up seeing?
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2012
  2. LMFAOSchwarz

    LMFAOSchwarz Sr Member

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    Re: Enterprise Refit Question To Original TOS Fans That Ain't Kids

    Wow...that means I've got to go back to '79, when i was seventeen and watching the movie for the first time at a drive-in! Hmm... let's see...

    If I'm remembering right it was pretty drastic to me, almost like it wasn't really the same ship. It seemed, I don't know..."heavier" and more "serious" somehow. Then, right out of the box, two people got killed in a transporter accident. That was pretty new. Then, the engines didn't work right, and that whole wormhole thing then seemed pretty 'out there' and alienating. I was a little confused. This wasn't wasn't I remembered at all. I had no idea most of the time where the characters even were, all the familiar touchstones seemed gone (save for the bridge, anyway). No briefing room, that huge, weird lounge, a transporter room that even looked dangerous, the massive cargo bay which to me looked like mostly wasted space. Overall, I'd just sum it all up as an unfamiliar place, I guess.:unsure

    Thinking about it a little more, I'd compare it to some kid you might have known in grammar school who'd moved away. Then you get about ten years older, and you run into that grown-up kid again. They've got the same name, and look somewhat the same, but they seem like unfamiliar people, in spite of your common memories of youth. The gap of years seems to have taken something away and leaving unfamiliarity in its place. Does that make any sense?
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2012
  3. phase pistol

    phase pistol Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Re: Enterprise Refit Question To Original TOS Fans That Ain't Kids

    I thought it was pretty awesome! :D

    18 months of refitting...
     
  4. Spheric Thor

    Spheric Thor Well-Known Member

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    Re: Enterprise Refit Question To Original TOS Fans That Ain't Kids

    I liked the new design, but other than the basic configuration there was hardly anything of the original E left. They should have had a retirement ceremony for the old girl and then introduced us to the new Enterprise.
     
  5. Jedi Dade

    Jedi Dade Sr Member

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    Re: Enterprise Refit Question To Original TOS Fans That Ain't Kids

    When I saw the movie I was a bit disappointed... but I drew the * ship on everything I came across... scrap pieces of wood, paper whatever. Trying (in vain) to get the shapes and proportions right... I was going from memory, and constantly wanting to make the engines bigger like the TOS E. It just looked "stubby" to be otherwise.

    I was 12...

    Today I still prefer the original E, but have come to really like the Refit as well... maybe on a 51-to 49% :) now they are both the enterprise to me.

    in my modeling history the AMT Refit was the first model that I really took my time to carefully build and it had the distinction of being the first model that I did not introduce a flaw into during construction - just the right amount of glue, decals prefectly placed, no extra plastif accidentally removed while trimming flash... God I was proud of that model...

    Jedi Dade
     
  6. Chrisisall

    Chrisisall Sr Member

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    Re: Enterprise Refit Question To Original TOS Fans That Ain't Kids

    Yes it does, and funny, I was 19 then, you young'un!:lol

    My first 'WTF' was NO EXTENDED DISH & ANTENNA????? But I got over it fast. Then, THE NACELLES AREN'T ROUND??????? But during the movie I acclimated. I immediately loved the 'fattness' of the secondary hull, the photon torpedo area on the neck, and the sweep of the pylons.
    To this day, I miss the lighted sensor domes above & below on the saucer, and the front of the bussards glowing (though the deflector dish light ameliorates that to a large degree).

    [Sidebar: I never liked the cheap way they got rid of Sonak with the transporter malfunction, so I always skip that part]

    Bottom line for me is: Ya gotta love the Refit, warps & all.:behave
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2012
  7. JMChladek

    JMChladek Sr Member

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    Re: Enterprise Refit Question To Original TOS Fans That Ain't Kids

    Maybe I am a little young for this list as I was only 9 when TMP came out in theaters. But, the shape of the new ship did leave an impression on me. To me, the TOS E looked kind of boring with what looked like three cylinders and a saucer stuck together with some simple pylons (and a rather terrestrial looking radar dish). It just looked cheap to me. The refit E I loved though as it introduced some wild eye candy. The flatter more squared off nacelles with those grills just kept attracting my eye. The photon bay was a nice way to add detail to the neck and the ditching of the parabolic radar dish for a thing that glowed with energy when activated was really cool. The ship immediately became my favorite as I also tried to sketch it everywhere I went as well. I know I went crazy when I got the South Bend Electric Enterprise refit toy that Christmas (the one you could take apart and reconfigure) as then I could appreciate all the shapes up close and personal. It was kind of like looking at a Starship version of a 57 Chevy as opposed to say a common 1970s sedan (which is what the TOS E at the time looked like to me).

    I didn't really begin to warm to the TOS E until after that. It wasn't until TMP and TWOK came out that I started to appreciate TOS more. It wasn't until I got my hands on a set of decent drawing plans for the TOS E (NOT the Franz Joseph blueprints since his were a bit off in spots) that I finally began to really appreciate the subtle touches Matt Jefferies and Richard Datin put into the TOS design with the decks, hatches and lighting placements. But a lot of that small stuff didn't really read too well on the small black and white TVs that were still common in the late 1970s (and early 80s). And of course, without home VCRs, we couldn't record and replay the episodes to look at the stuff on the screen.

    By the time TWOK hit theaters a couple years later, I had access to a better television and was able to sit down and watch Trek on a regular basis since a local station was airing it on Saturday nights at 11PM (and I could stay up that late on the weekend). So finally I "got" what Trek meant to so many. And when the episode "Space Seed" aired and I finally figured out the back story in TWOK wasn't just made up for it, well I was hooked.
     
  8. opal1970

    opal1970 Well-Known Member

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    Re: Enterprise Refit Question To Original TOS Fans That Ain't Kids

    I don't really remember if I liked or disliked one more, but I do remember thinking WOW, when I saw the refit. I had mixed feelings about it, It is kinda hard to call it a refit though. I mean they did a little bit more than just give her a new paint job. It is like going to sleep with a VW Beetle in your driveway and waking up to see a ferarri sitting there and calling it an upgrade. I do like the sleekness of the new design, the swept-back pylons make her look much more elegant in my opinion and the lighting (levels which were not availible to the TOS design crew) just made it look fantastic. I remember back then watching the movie for the first time... although I was a Star Trek fan through and through (only topped by Star Wars), I have to admit I have never really liked those typical "2001 - A Space Odessy" special effects, its like they were designed by people who are high for viewers who are high. Don't get me wrong, 2001 was a great film too... just didn't like those SpecialFX scenes and that slightly brought the my opinion down as a whole.

    Today, I would say I like the refit design better, however the classic E is that... a classic.
     
  9. division 6

    division 6 Master Member

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    Re: Enterprise Refit Question To Original TOS Fans That Ain't Kids

    I liked the design but thought it absurd that it was supposed to be the same ship so heavily modified.
    It would have been better to just say it was an brand new ship since even the inside had no resemblance to the original.

    The thing I really hated was the silly pajamas everyone was wearing.

    Totally loved the new K'Tinga ships and even the new bone head Klingons though it was a "what the heck" moment.

    On the up side I was blown away by the movie that was playing with it as a double feature, ALIEN.:D
     
  10. feek61

    feek61 Sr Member

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    Re: Enterprise Refit Question To Original TOS Fans That Ain't Kids

    I was really excited to see the Klingon ships in the opening scene and loved them. The Enterprise; no so much. Still to this day I much prefer the original E. I felt like the refit had too much detailing (influenced by the "Star Wars" look) and I didn't (and don't) really like the changes made. I love the simplicity and power of the original. As far as the script goes the main thing that bugs me (other than the story being a rip-off of "The Changling) was . . . I mean really, they can't get the decades old technology of the transporters and warp drive to work? WTH!
     
  11. LMFAOSchwarz

    LMFAOSchwarz Sr Member

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    Re: Enterprise Refit Question To Original TOS Fans That Ain't Kids

    Ok, let me get this out of the way first:
    warps...and all...:wacko And here's one right back atcha!:behave

    I's so hard to remember details from so long ago, but I do recall that by the time ST II came out, I had no problems with the E again, so I must've gotten over it pretty quickly!
    Those TMP uniforms, though, yeah that bothers me to this day. Relative to the series, it was like having an 8-pack of colorful crayola crayons suddenly replaced with a pack that contained only shades of gray!

    I hadn't really thought about it before until division 6 mentioned it, but all things considered they seemed to do a much better job upgrading the Klingon ships.
     
  12. Aztek Dummy

    Aztek Dummy Well-Known Member

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    I was 18 when TMP came out and dispite it's glacial pacing, I still saw it a ton of times in the theatre.

    It's an old peeve of mine, but the only thing I disliked about the design of the ship was the lack of "big swirly orange things" at the head of the warp engines. (back before I learned they were called 'bussard collectors') the engines just looked "dead" without them. I was very glad to see this rectified in future Enterprises. Beyond that, I echo the thoughts about the drab uniforms and overall "blah-ness" of the interior colors.
     
  13. Chrisisall

    Chrisisall Sr Member

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    Yeah, the distinct lack of colour seemed a little sterilized.
    Ster-il-ized!
    Faul-ty!
     
  14. phase pistol

    phase pistol Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I had been keeping up with updates in Starlog magazine since about 1977, so I was pretty familiar with the new ship by the time the actual movie rolled around. I had the model kit and the blueprint pack and trading cards and all. So I guess you could say I kind of liked it. :lol
     
  15. Chrisisall

    Chrisisall Sr Member

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    My only exposure before the movie had been full page ads in comic books, you know the one- Enterprise at a 45 degree angle with pictures of the cast at the bottom. So I was surprised to see it look way more different than even that concept painting.:eek:)
     
  16. pengbuzz

    pengbuzz Well-Known Member

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    The TOS version was okay when I watched the reruns; that said, when I saw the Refit for the first time, I just fell in love with it!! She had a sleekness and beauty that was unparalleled.
     
  17. phase pistol

    phase pistol Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I loved that Berkey painting! :)

    [​IMG]

    In some ways it looks even more intriguing than what they finally ended up with... I love the "glass" blisters and windows all over it, gives it a sense of scale. The warp engines are kid of too angular for my taste though.
     
  18. Chrisisall

    Chrisisall Sr Member

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    -he said, before he started a scratch build of it...

    :)
     
  19. Bryancd

    Bryancd Master Member

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    I was 11 when TMP came out. Like Karl, I was an avid reader of Starlog and was well aware what it was going to look like. I loved the look prior to the films release and was blown away by the ships introduction on the movie. I adore that 10min or whatever shuttle pod flyby scene, especially with the Goldsmith score. I bought the AMT model kit as well as the electronic Enterprise toy. Still my favorite starship design of them all.
     
  20. JMChladek

    JMChladek Sr Member

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    That Berkey painting is a prime reason why I've got parts from a Phase 2 conversion attempt I tried about a decade ago still sitting in storage. The model is a kitbash of an AMT refit E with an AMT Cutaway TOS E (with engines from a vac Avenger class kit). I'm slowly working up the nerve to go back to it (I've got a decent set of engines for it, but I still need to do the saucer and secondary hull modifications as my first attempts weren't quite so good due to having to fill that "mall floor" tile pattern on my refit parts. I've since acquired a built smoothie refit to have a second go at the conversion of those bits.
     
  21. Chrisisall

    Chrisisall Sr Member

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    You put those quotes around that like it's a bad thing.
    :behave

    I estimate approximately 4 hrs. of sanding Hell for mine...
     
  22. vixr

    vixr Active Member

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    I had just joined the USMC and had zero time to go to the theater, so I read the book first. The Enterprise will always be the first thing that comes to mind when I think of a starship, I have loved her in all of her incarnations, from the first day the series aired. The thing that struck me the most from TMP, when I finally made it to the theater, was the music...from the beginning to the end I was hypnotized...
     
  23. Zombie_61

    Zombie_61 Master Member

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    I've been watching Star Trek since the original series first aired in September of 1966; I was five years old. Like most fans I loved everything about it, and grew to appreciate it more and more watching the reruns repeatedly as I grew older. So much for my credentials. ;)

    I can't recall the first time I'd read or heard about Star Trek: The Motion Picture, but I recall thinking it was long overdue. I don't like spoilers and I purposely avoided as much promotional material as possible, so the first time I saw the Refit in all her glory was on the big screen. After seeing what they had done with the pajamas...err, I mean the uniforms, I was filled with a feeling of dread. To paraphrase Dr. McCoy, "I know filmmakers; they love to change things."

    Fortunately, that feeling of dread was misplaced; it was love at first sight. I think I sat through the entire "fly around" sequence with my jaw in my lap. I thought the redesign was a sensible approach; not necessarily an improvement, but a progression. To this day I can't decide which I like more, the Original or the Refit. Whether or not the Refit is actually the Original...I don't care; with all of the other implausibilities inherent in sci-fi, that's a minor consideration. :D

    I must admit, however, that I still miss that "going to warp" sound effect from the original series.
     
  24. robn1

    robn1 Master Member

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    I was 14, and I too read all the previews in Starlog, so I knew what to expect. The TOS E is a great design and will always be my fave, but the refit looked REAL. Every detail was thought out, and the reflective paint gave it a "futuristic materials" look that just sold it, this was no flat gray battleship in space.

    All the designs in this film had this quality. It wasn't about what looks cool, it was what looks believable in a real world sense.
     
  25. vaderman1701

    vaderman1701 Well-Known Member

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    The refit E has always been my favorite starship design. She just exudes elegance. Don't get me wrong, the TOS E is still awesome, but there is something about the refit E that just gets me excited when I see her.

    Scott
     
  26. LMFAOSchwarz

    LMFAOSchwarz Sr Member

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    That's one thing I will readily admit: the soundtrack from that movie haunts me to this day!
     
  27. CessnaDriver

    CessnaDriver Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I liked it just fine. The sweep of the nacelle supports added extra grace, the inclusion of where the hell the weapons come from was welcome, the docking ports were interesting.
    The navigational deflector dish gone for something more advanced.

    I wasn't thrilled to see the light show of the nacelle domes gone. They implied vast energies captured and under control. The glowing rectangular nacelles didn't quite give that impression. But they are more like sails on a ship I guess, so there was a subtle sense of a sailing vessel over the the rocket like appearance of the old TOS nacelles.
     
  28. opal1970

    opal1970 Well-Known Member

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    I couldn't agree more. Someday if I ever get around to it, I would like to make a "missing link" X version enterprise, generally keeping in form with the refit but things like the glowing, swirling bussards from the classic.
     
  29. RJBaxter3

    RJBaxter3 New Member

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    My take at the time was a little different. I was 24 in 1979.

    I had been lucky to have seen the original series filming model in working condition when it was on display at Golden West College in the early 70s. No doubt about it, that was a great model.

    After seeing TMP, I was uncertain over whether or not I liked the new Enterprise. Many features were nice touches. The new warp engines took the most time for me to get used to. At that time, I know I would have preferred the round engines and straight pylons but updated with the new paint scheme and better lighting effects. The new Enterprise sort of grew on me and eventually I was enthusiastic about all of the changes.
     
  30. CessnaDriver

    CessnaDriver Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Lucky!

    I keep wondering if there are pictures sitting in shoe boxes of that college event.
     
  31. MGagen

    MGagen New Member

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    I saw the first episode broadcast back in '66 at the tender age of 5. I was a senior in HS when ST:TMP came out. I love the original ship. When the movie publicity was ramping up, I bought my first and only supermarket tabloid (The Star? The Enquirer?) because if featured a full color center spread of the new model. This was not the painting; it was a photo of the final model, completely lit, against a star background.

    I loved what they'd done to the old girl. While the Refit will never replace the original in my affections; the sense of realism and scale was fantastic.

    I agree with an earlier poster. Some thought the inspection tour scene went on too long. Not me. It wasn't long enough.

    Now I had a completely different reaction to the interiors. I hated the sparseness of the bridge. While the original had a very forward thinking ergonomic design, the movie bridge seemed a huge step backward to the "just stick on some blinky lights" school of design. And the blandness of the color scheme was also a turn off. The only two improvements I could credit were the seat restraints and raising the level of the railing. In TOS, the railing was dangerous. It was just high enough to guarantee that anyone on the top level who lost his balance would knock his knee on it and pitch into the lower level on his head. That's because it wasn't put there as a safety feature -- it was put there for Captain Kirk to lean against dramatically. The refit bridge fixed this. Now Kirk practically rests his chin on it when he declares that he feels "young" in TWOK.

    M.
     
  32. RJBaxter3

    RJBaxter3 New Member

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    Hello CessnaDriver,

    I was on a HS field trip and seeing THE USS ENTERPRISE in person came as a huge surprise. I had to be asked to leave so others could have their turn. Hey...the grid lines did exist on the top of the sauce. They were delicate in terms of line size and darkness. The model's color was also a surprise. At that time, I thought it was a special grey paint that showed white under bright lighting. It was quite a treat to see. The only defect was the sensor dish was missing. Had I known that was part of the field trip beforehand, I would have brought my camera. I tired to go back later before we had to leave, but the room was packed. Lucky sums it up just right.
     
  33. Shaw

    Shaw Well-Known Member

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    Well, I recall being a little dismayed when I first saw the painting used for the movie poster. It looked like the engines had been replaced by alien technology (they looked sort of Klingon to me at the time) or hadn't been finished yet (like they hadn't finished adding the outer skin yet). I asked James Doohan about this at a convention and he said something about how it was like the changes seen in car designs over the years.

    So yeah, my first reaction was pretty negative... but on opening day, the fly around of the ship in space dock changed that impression. It seemed far less unfinished than it had previously to me.

    Oddly enough, I've since found out that the original TOS engines were a compromise because Jefferies was running out of time during the designing of the Enterprise. And that the design of the Klingon engines was more like what he would have wanted for the Enterprise, and why the engines on the Phase II Enterprise started moving in that design direction.

    While I like the TMP version of the Enterprise (specially after seeing it in action in TWOK), the TOS Enterprise is still my favorite version.
     
  34. TiberiousST

    TiberiousST Member

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    I was just 14 as well but had made the geek-study of the TOS E my sole reason to exist. I also drew it all the time despite my lack of skill. I was awestruck at the new ships despite what I'd seen in Starlog and other magazines of the day. It was sleek, which didn't make a lot of sense to me as it's in space, but beautiful. The detailing bugged me as I felt they had sold out to the 'Star Wars' design of having the hull covered in stuff, but at least it didn't have random crap hanging outside of its new lines. The interior was drab and lifeless, except where it had 70s green and orange, which I hated even during the 70s. Carpet pad is not futuristic. I loved the open areas as it gave the ship a sense of scale.

    The uniforms were another matter and OT, but I totally agree with the folks here, except for Kirk's admiral uniform, that rocked!

    Tib
     
  35. MGagen

    MGagen New Member

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    Shaw,

    I've never heard about this. Where did you find this tidbit?

    Thanks,
    M.
     
  36. ixtore

    ixtore Active Member

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    I'm one of those that watched TOS. I loved the refurbished Enterprise (something Ken Ralston did not). My only feeling about it at the time was it's size. Though they called it a refit, in my head, I just took it as a 'new' Enterprise. Hey, we had such a long stretch without any Star Trek, ST:TMP was a real shot in the arm. Thenfilm it's troubles but the E? Great!
     
  37. robn1

    robn1 Master Member

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    Some of Jefferies' early drawings show small rectangular nacelles. I don't know about a "compromise", but it did start that way. I like the "looks like a duck" note :lol
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2012
  38. saarno

    saarno Member

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    I have to admit, like others here that it took a while to get used to the new TMP sweeping design. But I realy feel the TMP E is one nice design - plays well on the screen and has a feel of always moving forward even when it is still. All that being said, the TOS E will always be the queen bee - even if it looks a bit 1960's ish.

    The pearlescent finish on the TMP is a very slick change, too!
     
  39. Shaw

    Shaw Well-Known Member

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    I'll try to find where it was that I got that... I'm thinking it was most likely a correspondence someone had with Jefferies rather than an interview (as most interviewers wouldn't have asked about the Phase II design).

    Honestly, if anyone else but you had asked, I would have thought of you as the first possible source.
     
  40. Obsession

    Obsession New Member

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    Whether or not you like the original Enterprise, is going to depend a lot on how old you were when Star Trek the motion picture came out. I was 17 at the time, I grew up loving Star Trek, And the original Enterprise. Therefore, my experience was, that they took something that I loved and felt was perfect and completely reworked it, with little or no regard for the original. If the original version had never existed, then I would probably like it a lot more than I do.
    What I really felt was lost, was the potential of the original design. The movie version of the ship, shares no single dimension or line with the original television version. To me, the original ship looks big, sleek, graceful but robust, smooth and shiny, and has details that cannot be defined by 20th or 21st century technology and hence, is an extremely futuristic design. Imagine, that you could take a modern iPhone back to 1965, and assuming that it would still function, somehow bridging the gap through time, and set it on a table for someone to find. When the people of 47 years in the past do find it, are they going to know what it is, what it does, or how it works? Maybe if they can touch it they might figure it out eventually. We are talking a 23rd century starship, originally 300 years in the future, now closer to 250 years, something we can only see, not touch. What are the odds that we (the people of 2012) would actually understand any of the surface details or structures of the original design of the Enterprise?
    The designers of the movie Enterprise wanted to make the ship look more modern or up-to-date, and so they infused it with modern (i.e. 1979) technology. Such as putting lights shining on the hull, to elimunate markings. This is an extremely low-tech, old-fashioned way of addressing this perceived problem. Again, this is a 23rd century starship. Why are they even being elimunated? Anyone out there to see them, more than likely have technology capable of seeing them even in complete darkness. Most likely the numbers and markings would be created using a process or materials that are capable of change. Maybe, these markings change from black to elimunated, if desired by the crew of the ship. The potential was there, even in the original design. It may not have been within the budget of the series, but the potential for it to happen was there. When the motion picture shined spotlights on the markings to elimunate them, that potential ceased to exist. This is only one of the many potentials that ceased to exist with the new design.
    I will admit the movie version of the ship, looked new, shiny, more detailed, but, it looked like we had somehow made the ship today, with today's technology. And I feel the same way about the 2009 Star Trek Enterprise.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2012
  41. Chrisisall

    Chrisisall Sr Member

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    We're just about the same age, and I feel the lines of the refit are okay, but yeah, too much on the hull. Which is why I like the look of the refit better in later films, when they made the hull a bit simpler.
     
  42. Obsession

    Obsession New Member

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    The motion picture version of the Enterprise is cool, and I must admit when I saw it on the big screen watching the movie for the first time, that I did feel that it was, to borrow words from a friend," nifty *".
    And for a time, it did have my first affection. But as the years went by, and I saw more models being made by people, and saw the pictures in the Smithsonian, the aging of the model and the botched restorations, I have come to believe, that most people don't really know what the original Enterprise truly looked like. They know the 18 inch AMT model kit and the Fran's Joseph blueprints, both of which were extremely inaccurate. Everybody always portrays the original Enterprise as being something old, and from the past. I can't wait until the new Polar Lights model comes out this October. I intend to build the Enterprise the way no one has really seen her before, the way she looked when the series began. The correct color and finish and no f***ing bow light. And while I know pictures from this period exist, most are small or taken from a distance, grainy, scratched, washed out and color shifted. Too bad they didn't have have digital cameras in 1966.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2012
  43. Chrisisall

    Chrisisall Sr Member

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    Just a pic from my work table...

    [​IMG]
     
  44. knightdriver2001

    knightdriver2001 Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    For me, the refit looks 1000 times better than the original.

    Loved the look of the refit the moment I saw it was was quite
    sad when they destroyed it in the search for spock.

    Then they brought it back for another couple movies but it wasn't
    the same. (Probably due to bad special effects in the later films).:facepalm
     
  45. Chrisisall

    Chrisisall Sr Member

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    It was repainted. I personally liked it best in Trek III. But I thought it looked great in VI as well.:thumbsup
     
  46. Jsimon999

    Jsimon999 Active Member

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    I was 12 at the time and although I noticed the difference, it wasn't something I thought about until about 10 years ago when I started to think about Star Trek more critically. The thing that bugs me is why did anything have to be changed at all????? Why do a movie about a show that people have just come to recognize in very certain and very distinct ways....then change the whole dame thing...from models to sets to uniforms, etc, etc.

    Then 10 years ago it dawned on me. Because they could sell new model kits, employ new art designers, costume designers, set decorators, etc, etc. Add to that, the new crew making the movies would not want to merely copy what had already been done; they would want to put their own stamp and put their own mark on it to establish their own reputations.

    Well, I enjoy the Star Trek movies overall but I feel they did not bring to the screen the show I loved for the look and feel of it too. I accepted them at the time but now see what happened and perhaps some whys. Robert Wise and Nic Meyers, as talented as they are, ruined ST TOS for the most part for me. Wise for trying to make it look like Space: 2001 and Meyers for all his Shakespeare and maritime additions.

    Ok. My rant is done.

    :lol
    Jon
     
  47. Garbaron

    Garbaron New Member

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    I did not see the movie until 1980 + ... Germany wasn't, and sometimes isn't, as quick with movie and TV series releases you know. And it was even worse back then until you could get hold of a movie on VHS.

    I was seven years old and the drydock scene blew my mind! That scene looked so real, the ship so immensely BIG and for the first time I thought this thing could really exist ... someday. I just LOVED the new design! This version had some awesome angels to look at and I especially liked that the warp engines looked completely different and did away with the glowing spinning tips. These new engines did not show anything moving but still could do all the TOS engines could do, and the movie made it perfectly clear these things where immensely powerful, could even rip space apart and create a wormhole! The whole lighting with her flood lights, the glowing dish .. RADICAL man (Kevin Fly, Tron: Legacy)!!! The first moment I saw the Refit I loved her and she is my favorite Enterprise of them all. EVER!! (TOS E comes to a close second, after all that's the ship that introduced me to Trek and started it all).

    The whole V'Ger thing scared the hell out of me. That dark looming cloud, coming to live with flashes and weird sound effects (the special V'Ger sound they made on that exotic instrument ... eerie!), that shot these power full sparking globes that just zapped things, even entire space stations out of existence.

    I did not like that Kirk behaves like an a***ole for the majority of the movie, especially against Decker. But then again, I did not like Decker either... a wanabe Kirk? Go to hell Decker! Same goes for Spock up until after the mind meld he behaved like a robot. Ilia was scary too.

    What stuck mostly to my mind was the awesome FX. I never thought of the movie as boring and always enjoyed to watch it. Only think my kid brain always got fooled with ... when they zoom on to the rotating space office complex and focuses somewhat on that rectangular opening, I always expected the Enterprise to show up ... it never did ... and oddly enough Scott takes Kirk in to the opposite direction. I really though the ship should be inside the office complex ... like that mushroom space station later did.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2012
  48. JMChladek

    JMChladek Sr Member

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    Based on what I have researched, Ken Ralston didn't necessarily hate the Enterprise refit's design itself, but rather he hated the studio model inherited from TMP. The thing was very heavy and the gloss paintjob was causing all sorts of light reflections when they tried to shoot it bluescreen (because Trumbull shot it black screen). Then the wiring for the lights was overly complex (sometimes it would only work due to short circuits), as was the external inky light setup to get all the spotlights to work properly (lot of meticulous preparation needed setting up all those little lights for a film pass). From a practicality standpoint, I can see why he wasn't crazy about the design as ILM had a different philosophy to effects photography compared to Trumbull's group (with Trumbull's experience going back to 2001, which favored huge models).

    In Doug Trumbull's defense, I would say his influence probably had maybe more to do with how the refit E looked on camera than anyone else. I've seen images of the model as it looked when Magicam built it for Robert Abel and associates. The paintjob was plain white and it didn't have the self illumination system yet (hence the different upper and lower saucer domes). As filmed, I think it would have looked good, but not great IMHO. The "aztec" paint panelling was a nice idea to give the thing surface detail without adding greeblie details to the model and the self illumination system as directed by Trumbull and rendered so elegantly by Andy Probert gave the model that final push to Spinal Tap "11" level.

    By comparison if you look at the Reliant from TWOK, you can tell it was an ILM model. Sure it had the aztec paint and the art deco engines. But the back of the beast is greeblied all to heck on top and bottom. If that was Ken Ralston's idea of a great looking ship, while I think such touches might have worked for the refit E, I don't necessarily think it would have looked quite as good since Matt Jefferies always tended to favor clean looks from a practicality standpoint.
     
  49. Captain Finney

    Captain Finney Member

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    I couldn't agree more with that last post..On every level. The refit E was a cocktail that owes it's credit to a few folks..Probert, Trumbul, Jeffries, etc. She's my favorite E, although I also have an almost equal love of the original girl.

    This is a little off-topic, but just to share something that's been bugging me lately; Why is it that the original 'smoothie' 1/537 model kit of the Enterprise refit has never been remastered? That scale is the PERFECT size to accomodate decent details, (including lighting, if one chooses), yet not take up an excessive amount of space. Only the first kit of this ship was a 'smoothie'...The 'textured' kits that followed are okay, but will always be sub-par if one wants to re-create the beautiful refit as she appeared on film.
     
  50. Garbaron

    Garbaron New Member

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    As far as I know AMT engraved the original molding tools with those horrible panels. They would have to completely redo the metal masters and apparently did not want to spend the money. After all only the really nerdy Trekkers complained about the inaccurate panels.
     

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